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Dev blog: Odyssey summer expansion: Starbase iterations

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Oreamnos Amric
Confidently Incompetent
#161 - 2013-04-02 18:24:25 UTC
ExookiZ wrote:
This will create more problems than it does solves. I suspect I stand with almost every large WH corp in saying that this needs to be looked at.


Please elaborate on the problems this creates for you that is so terrible you don't want them in your hole.
Kennesaw Breach
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2013-04-02 18:26:17 UTC
Oreamnos Amric wrote:
ExookiZ wrote:
This will create more problems than it does solves. I suspect I stand with almost every large WH corp in saying that this needs to be looked at.


Please elaborate on the problems this creates for you that is so terrible you don't want them in your hole.


There are lots of things I don't want in my hole, but to each their own. Don't ask, don't tell...
Tshaowdyne Dvorak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#163 - 2013-04-02 18:26:23 UTC
Atomic Option wrote:
If someone's not available / on vacation / quits during an evacuation and/or POS reinforce, there will be no way to evac or self-destruct their stuff to deter looters, as is currently done with everything in an SMA, unless directors or people with some sort of role have access to personal ship hangers.


If you're going on extended leave from the game, then move your crap to an NPC station in known space. It's inconvenient, but also a surefire way not to lose your crap.

Atomic Option wrote:
Of course that would somewhat remove the "personal" nature of the ship hanger.


Therein lies the rub. This is why I support the devs' current conception and not any of the players' suggestions to the contrary. Personal means personal, and it's something K-space dwellers take for granted. Your stuff in an NPC station cannot be touched/taken/lost by anyone other than a GM and drunken you. Drunken you doesn't know better, but leads to hilarious stories of losses for the rest of the community. The rest of us support drunken you in all of his drunken endeavors, for your tears are delicious. ;)
Marsan
#164 - 2013-04-02 18:31:09 UTC
LtCol Laurentius wrote:

These changes seem primarily focused on the WH usecase (not surprising given the CSM active member composition). I'm not saying they wont affect other POS users in a positive way as well, but the industrialist user might consider these changes pretty underwhelming.


I disagree that these are all WH use case. They are great features for wormhole dwellers because wormhole dwellers live and die out of a POS, and anything that helps POS will help us. These are multi-user use cases, and will greatly help anyone who has multiple people in a POS. If you are a solo industrialist POS user I can see how nothing other than the inventory changes is helpful. This is just hopefully the 1st pass on POSes. I'm hoping that the Summer expansion includes a few nice bonuses like being able to queue up more jobs in the various arrays, and reduces the POS penalty to refining.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Oreamnos Amric
Confidently Incompetent
#165 - 2013-04-02 18:32:54 UTC
Not having CEO and Directors able to empty member hangers will mean increased timescales for moving POSs - i.e. a notice period to move your stuff or it will be lost for good. Without making the member hangers in pCHAs accessible to CEOs and Directors there will be plenty of times where a POS move results in destruction of player property. Even with a notice time period there will be people who didn't or couldn't log in.

I don't have a massive issue with the destruction of stuff, just having to wait a week or two because some mechanic is dumb.
Danny Centauri
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2013-04-02 18:33:45 UTC
Dissapointed you missed the easiest change that would make an actual difference to industry players.

Remove the material penalties from advanced ship assembly arrays! In order to manufacture hulls in a POS and take more risk we have to pay more...

This should be simple like stupidly simple, just goes to show there really isn't anyone on the CSM focussing on industry and how they get their ships to shoot each other in the face. There was a lot of hope with the POS tweaks hey who knows perhaps industry will get some love in the winter release.

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Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#167 - 2013-04-02 18:35:18 UTC
And Fozzie - while looking at POS structures, can You look at the problem with no ships droping from destroyed SMA???

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Kennesaw Breach
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2013-04-02 18:38:05 UTC
Oreamnos Amric wrote:
Not having CEO and Directors able to empty member hangers will mean increased timescales for moving POSs - i.e. a notice period to move your stuff or it will be lost for good. Without making the member hangers in pCHAs accessible to CEOs and Directors there will be plenty of times where a POS move results in destruction of player property. Even with a notice time period there will be people who didn't or couldn't log in.

I don't have a massive issue with the destruction of stuff, just having to wait a week or two because some mechanic is dumb.


I'm more concerned about persons taking other people's stuff or corporate stuff from CHAs, labs, arrays, etc, and deliberately placing it in their personal hangar as a denial-of-resource action. If directors, or at least the CEO, can access personal hangars, I'm happy about it. If it stays inaccessible to anyone other than the character who put it there, I'm not a fan, and would argue that they're more of a liability than a help.
Kennesaw Breach
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2013-04-02 18:39:02 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
And Fozzie - while looking at POS structures, can You look at the problem with no ships droping from destroyed SMA???


Eh? I've shot SMAs for the candy inside before. Never noticed a problem. Are you sure the SMA wasn't empty to begin with?
Schwein Hosen
DuckPus Fightclub
#170 - 2013-04-02 18:39:40 UTC
2 Things:

Cargo Scanners:
Please correct the bug to make cargo scanners actually work on offline POS modules. Currently they activate but always show nothing, giving you the impression that there is no loot even if there actually is loot that can drop. This is a big deal when plundering POS's. If there is no loot that can drop, it may be worth your time to destroy the tower and unanchor the modules, but if there is loot you would be better off destroying the modules.

POS Module Kill Mails:
Also, in relation to this, please fix POS module kill mails to actually show the loot that was dropped or destroyed. The hard part of generating the kill mails was already done, now we just need to make them accurate... In the current system, if someone destroys someone else's T2 BPO in a POS module, no one except the POS owner will know that it happened. That's not very much in the spirit of EVE...
Oreamnos Amric
Confidently Incompetent
#171 - 2013-04-02 18:40:32 UTC
Kennesaw Breach wrote:
Oreamnos Amric wrote:
Not having CEO and Directors able to empty member hangers will mean increased timescales for moving POSs - i.e. a notice period to move your stuff or it will be lost for good. Without making the member hangers in pCHAs accessible to CEOs and Directors there will be plenty of times where a POS move results in destruction of player property. Even with a notice time period there will be people who didn't or couldn't log in.

I don't have a massive issue with the destruction of stuff, just having to wait a week or two because some mechanic is dumb.


I'm more concerned about persons taking other people's stuff or corporate stuff from CHAs, labs, arrays, etc, and deliberately placing it in their personal hangar as a denial-of-resource action. If directors, or at least the CEO, can access personal hangars, I'm happy about it. If it stays inaccessible to anyone other than the character who put it there, I'm not a fan, and would argue that they're more of a liability than a help.


I'd not considered that. I am clearly not as devious as you. That does cast an ugly angle on these pCHAs. Bugger....
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#172 - 2013-04-02 18:42:22 UTC
Even if the code for starbases is old; badly made and so on, I really have a hard time believing you when you are under "technical limitations" for everything.

What about just letting us create as many tab as we want in CHAs ? With associated rights. Hop, done. Personal hangars without creating a new instancied module with infinite room blablabla.

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Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#173 - 2013-04-02 18:43:07 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I can confirm that we're not removing CHAs, the Personal Hangar structure is a separate structure and the two can exist alongside each other to meet different needs.

Letting directors and/or CEOs access the member's sections of the PHA is not going to be within our scope for the first iteration due to technical limitations, and I am honestly not sold on ever adding it. These structures are not intended to completely replace CHAs for all purposes, and the added difficulty to rapid evacuation provides slightly more incentive for wormhole invasions.


Not letting CEOs and directors access the personal hangars is not going to yield more loot in wormhole invasions. The people who take the scorched earth policy will, as they always have with every other item-containing POS mod, unanchor it and nuke everything. Fixing this would do more to incentivize invasions than making it so that people ritually unanchor their PHAs when they're sieged. You really don't see rapid evacuation by the invaded that much. It's far more common to see rapid self-destruction of everything they have. Rapid evacuation is what the invaders do when they're extracting post-op.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#174 - 2013-04-02 18:43:41 UTC
This is great and I love to see this aspect get some love - I do however hope everything will be re-invented as the current system won't easily be transformed...

I do wish you think more about the game mechanics for those personal hangars - People always go on 14 day vacations or have computers break down for a week when a corp is about to relocate a tower... So I suspect lots of people will lose assets to repacking the personal hangar arrays.

I know you don't want to make it easy to steal/scam assets from members, but how about those items dropping out in a locked container when repacking an array so corps can save personal assets and save them for their owner. It must be possible to create containers only accessible by 1 character? Have them drop in space with a 72hour decay timer and the option to shoot them if you want to destroy them. You can scoop the container but only the real owner can open the container. Maybe give him the option to open access for others somehow but personal assets in towers can be a pain when you suddenly have to relocate...

Pinky
Count of MonteCylon
Anti-Pirate Enforcement
#175 - 2013-04-02 18:44:47 UTC
I feel that giving starbases a magic amount of unlimited storage space (limited per person, but otherwise it's magic) would damage the sense of realism and consequence in Eve because to my knowledge nothing else has unlimited space. You are forced to deal with and manage all sorts of limitations in other areas, for one small star base to house a hundred million m3 and another one to house only three people's worth of space would be strange.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. -- Ephesians 6:12
Kennesaw Breach
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2013-04-02 18:44:47 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Even if the code for starbases is old; badly made and so on, I really have a hard time believing you when you are under "technical limitations" for everything.


"This code is crap and poorly commented and I'd have to reimplement it from scratch" counts as a technical limitation, and I don't have a hard time believing it at all ;) It gets extra embarrassing when it was code I wrote myself from a year or so ago...
ROSSLINDEN0
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#177 - 2013-04-02 18:51:34 UTC
"Corp directors have the ability to see what members have items in the hangar, but do not have the ability to take or place items from/in the hangars."

What about ceo's? i find myself having to take down someones pos and storing their assets in a secure hanger elsewhere if they have to go afk from game for some reason so this would kind of **** that up and id have to blow the hangers up each time.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#178 - 2013-04-02 18:51:40 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
This is great and I love to see this aspect get some love - I do however hope everything will be re-invented as the current system won't easily be transformed...

I do wish you think more about the game mechanics for those personal hangars - People always go on 14 day vacations or have computers break down for a week when a corp is about to relocate a tower... So I suspect lots of people will lose assets to repacking the personal hangar arrays.

I know you don't want to make it easy to steal/scam assets from members, but how about those items dropping out in a locked container when repacking an array so corps can save personal assets and save them for their owner. It must be possible to create containers only accessible by 1 character? Have them drop in space with a 72hour decay timer and the option to shoot them if you want to destroy them. You can scoop the container but only the real owner can open the container. Maybe give him the option to open access for others somehow but personal assets in towers can be a pain when you suddenly have to relocate...

Pinky


If people are not willing to take the risk that their corp will move without them, they can always store certain items in the CHAs instead. Having tradeoffs and decisions to make between what to store in each of the two forms of storage is one of our goals.

Count of MonteCylon wrote:
I feel that giving starbases a magic amount of unlimited storage space (limited per person, but otherwise it's magic) would damage the sense of realism and consequence in Eve because to my knowledge nothing else has unlimited space. You are forced to deal with and manage all sorts of limitations in other areas, for one small star base to house a hundred million m3 and another one to house only three people's worth of space would be strange.


Customs offices have exactly the same mechanic of unlimited total space but limited space per character.
Also stations have infinite interiors. Quantum storage is the wave of the future.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
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Oreamnos Amric
Confidently Incompetent
#179 - 2013-04-02 18:57:06 UTC
ROSSLINDEN0 wrote:
"Corp directors have the ability to see what members have items in the hangar, but do not have the ability to take or place items from/in the hangars."

What about ceo's? i find myself having to take down someones pos and storing their assets in a secure hanger elsewhere if they have to go afk from game for some reason so this would kind of **** that up and id have to blow the hangers up each time.


Been answered to death. Go hunting backwards.
ROSSLINDEN0
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#180 - 2013-04-02 19:02:06 UTC
Oreamnos Amric wrote:
ROSSLINDEN0 wrote:
"Corp directors have the ability to see what members have items in the hangar, but do not have the ability to take or place items from/in the hangars."

What about ceo's? i find myself having to take down someones pos and storing their assets in a secure hanger elsewhere if they have to go afk from game for some reason so this would kind of **** that up and id have to blow the hangers up each time.


Been answered to death. Go hunting backwards.

Yeah i came back to edit my post but you'd already quoted me :P