These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why risk versus reward doesn't matter
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#81 - 2013-04-02 15:23:10 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:


Alarm clock CTA's??? -really???
Does this really happens in this game and are there really so many idiots doing it?-this community never ceases to amaze me.



I hear this ALL the time as the primary reason they bailed out of Null.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Dave Stark
#82 - 2013-04-02 15:26:21 UTC
suggestion: don't join a corp with CTAs.

alternatively, don't set an alarm for them if you don't want to wake up in the middle of the night to attend one.
if it results in you being removed from your corp then i think you dodged a bullet.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#83 - 2013-04-02 15:27:22 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:


Alarm clock CTA's??? -really???
Does this really happens in this game and are there really so many idiots doing it?-this community never ceases to amaze me.



I hear this ALL the time as the primary reason they bailed out of Null.


You realize their are hundreds of alliances in null, some good, some bad, most average..

It's another feature of the "outsider perspective", seeing that outside thing as one big "thing" rather than (in this case) thousands of systems inhabited by thousands of individual players.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2013-04-02 15:27:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
CCP is trying to maintain a game that serves a broad spectrum of players, not just a certain "type"


And how then does that make EVE different from other games except "it has space ships"?

I was attracted to EVe because ti wasn't like other games (not just because it had space ships), but as time goes on, that uniqueness is being cast aside for more money, more subs, "easy to learn, hard to master" BS and every increasing safety in a video game (including actual "safeties", because for 9 years people actually knowing what they are doing and who they were shooting was too much to ask of a video game player).

It's fairly sickening. It's also new, back in "my day" no one asked that the rocks in the 'Asteroids' video game stop killing your ship on impact, or that the Ghosts in pac-man ask to see your pvp flag before bitting you......

The wussification of gaming (and EVE) is something to resist, not welcome.


It still isn't like any other game. The fact that you're not the only player here means what attracted you to EVE is irrelevant. Like it or not, if the game is to survive, it needs to broaden its player base to include "wuss" players. You have to adapt to that as much as the "wuss" players have to adapt to the game's harsher aspects, which still exist in substantial glory, and everyone is adapting!

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#85 - 2013-04-02 15:30:17 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:



You guys really need to come up with some new material. This stuff is the same old tired crap you been spewing in all other past post you dont like that degrades to trolling until you get the thread locked because you dont like it or agree with it.

Many changes have came to eve and those changes will continue if the game is to not only survive but also grow....So HTFU and deal with it.



What i'll never understand is why you types (and you are in EVERy video game with multiplayer and every MMO) can't just leave folks like us alone to have out harsh high competition cut throat games without coming in and trying to water it down.

We get it, you can't stand "losing" even in a game, but where is there for those of us who don't care about that. After you finish ruining EVE, taking it from the unique game experience it was and making it into yet another bland "hold my hand, it's scary in the dark" themepark MMO, what next?

Your type is extremely shortsighted, you hate the things that make EVE what it is and want ccp to change them, not realizing that when the watering down is done, YOU won't like that EVE any more than I do.



Didn't we have a conversation yesterday about you doing highsec incursions for 150m isk/hr?

Did you get back in line after you finished riding that ferris wheel?

"you" types... heh.


As usual you conflate unrelated things. Nothing wrong with doing high sec stuff, I never said there was.

If you don't understand what i'm talking about, just ask rather than make yet another assumption.



When you start piping in how anti highsec and how badass you are and hardcore, and then start flaying people referring them to as "you types"... I'm going to call you out on your hypocrisy.

You sit there and argue semantics and apply mentalities like you're better...

doing the exact same activities.

You aren't better. You aren't different. Stop pretending you are.

Sit the f*ck down.


Why do you go out of your way to misunderstand? That's crazy.

oh well, belive what you want, the rest of us will have an actual discussion.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#86 - 2013-04-02 15:34:46 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

It still isn't like any other game. The fact that you're not the only player here means what attracted you to EVE is irrelevant. Like it or not, if the game is to survive, it needs to broaden its player base to include "wuss" players. You have to adapt to that as much as the "wuss" players have to adapt to the game's harsher aspects, which still exist in substantial glory, and everyone is adapting!


Ah, moral equivalence. That BS too.

Hardcore players shouldn't have to adapt to non-hardcore BS IN a game advertised as hardcore (which they are STILL doing btw). That's like saying a soccer player in a soccer game should adapt by putting on pads and a helmet and throwing the ball with his hands. Now, if that soccer player were playing football he should do that, but if he's playing SOCCER (my non-U.S. friends will have to forgive the terminology), he should...play soccer.

Their are so many games for Wusses, why not leave ONE pure old school video game alive. Must you types control EVERYTHING
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#87 - 2013-04-02 15:35:21 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You have to adapt to that as much as the "wuss" players have to adapt to the game's harsher aspects, which still exist in substantial glory, and everyone is adapting!



I would think they would appreciate the increasing number of "wuss" players.

More Targets.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-04-02 15:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

It still isn't like any other game. The fact that you're not the only player here means what attracted you to EVE is irrelevant. Like it or not, if the game is to survive, it needs to broaden its player base to include "wuss" players. You have to adapt to that as much as the "wuss" players have to adapt to the game's harsher aspects, which still exist in substantial glory, and everyone is adapting!


Ah, moral equivalence. That BS too.

Hardcore players shouldn't have to adapt to non-hardcore BS IN a game advertised as hardcore (which they are STILL doing btw). That's like saying a soccer player in a soccer game should adapt by putting on pads and a helmet and throwing the ball with his hands. Now, if that soccer player were playing football he should do that, but if he's playing SOCCER (my non-U.S. friends will have to forgive the terminology), he should...play soccer.

Their are so many games for Wusses, why not leave ONE pure old school video game alive. Must you types control EVERYTHING


Hardcore players don't exist, just players that refer to themselves as hardcore, so that argument is irrelevant. So is an analogy to a game of soccer, because soccer is not a sandbox-style game. It has rules and restrictions, whereas EVE simply has consequences for actions. You've said it yourself before, people who think EVE is played by a set of rules are only imposing those rules on themselves. Now you're trying to impose your own set on everyone that you think isn't suitable for the game.

No moral equivalence, though. You're complaining about a problem you perceive as much as those you're complaining about are one that they perceive. It's a simple dialectic, one that has existed in every multiplayer game ever. And just like every multiplayer game ever, you have your corner of the game that suits you, and they have theirs. The difference between this game and every other is that you get to choose what you do with that corner, and your corner can overlap theirs.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-04-02 15:53:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
...game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game)...

WoW. I see new idea of what is Eve Online supposed to be. Would not ask for proofs (you haven't it anyway).


So, you've never seen the Developers talk about EVE online? Their are videos on youtube from way back.

me personally a developer too. But my point of view and point of view of my corporation can differ heavily. So i would like to see some official material (like trailers if there is nothing better present).

On the other hand Eve Online is a sandbox. So final game ideology only depends of players.

Jenn aSide wrote:

Quote:

My personal idea about Eve Online is: this is internet game where i meet other people and do something in space. And nothing i see in the game conflicts with this idea.

Maybe the real problem is: wrong idea of what this game is about? And instead of changing game to meet idea you should change idea to meet the game? Lol


That's simply ignoring what you don't like to hear. What about "high sec" is "cold, harsh and dark"?

why ignoring?
yes, Eve universe is hard, cold and all this stuff. I'm ok with that. Does it mean that "meet with people and do something in space" is wrong? I guess nope.

You make assumption that "cold, harsh, ..." makes you NPC which HAVE TO attack, destroy and all this stuff. But why? Yes, you can do NPC job and mindlessly attack anyone around. Or you can do something on market and didn't undock once (thus engage in pvp activity). Or you can play "shadow" and live there without straight confrontation with players.

Once again: Eve is a sandbox. No one forces you to do something. It's only your choice to follow someone's will. Or choose your way.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#90 - 2013-04-02 15:56:53 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You have to adapt to that as much as the "wuss" players have to adapt to the game's harsher aspects, which still exist in substantial glory, and everyone is adapting!



I would think they would appreciate the increasing number of "wuss" players.

More Targets.


unless those Wusses come in Blood Raider skins they wouldn't be targets for me.

But why do you think more "cancer" would be welcomed lol. That's what carebearism really is, it infects every hard core and pvp style game eventually. It was no different (for me) in mechwarrior and x-wing.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#91 - 2013-04-02 16:04:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You have to adapt to that as much as the "wuss" players have to adapt to the game's harsher aspects, which still exist in substantial glory, and everyone is adapting!



I would think they would appreciate the increasing number of "wuss" players.

More Targets.


unless those Wusses come in Blood Raider skins they wouldn't be targets for me.

But why do you think more "cancer" would be welcomed lol. That's what carebearism really is, it infects every hard core and pvp style game eventually. It was no different (for me) in mechwarrior and x-wing.



All I can say, is keep doing your 'thing' ingame. It's not going away anywhere.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#92 - 2013-04-02 16:07:07 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Hardcore players don't exist, just players that refer to themselves as hardcore, so that argument is irrelevant. So is an analogy to a game of soccer, because soccer is not a sandbox-style game. It has rules and restrictions, whereas EVE simply has consequences for actions. You've said it yourself before, people who think EVE is played by a set of rules are only imposing those rules on themselves. Now you're trying to impose your own set on everyone that you think isn't suitable for the game.


I'm not imposing anything, I'm pointing out a truth.

And if you don't think EVe has "rules", go shoot a noob in a starter system and see what happens lol.

But I'm not even taling about rules. i don't think anyone should play the way I do or even like (i hate scammers for instance).

Like many high sec folks, you just don't get it, my beef isn't with people doing what they want. I do what i want, why shouldn't they?

Its with the people who come into a situation (like EVE, or any video game), don't like it and rather than leave it to those who do, they try to change it to suit them. D amn the history/traditions of tthe game, damn those who like it as is, damn everything but their cancerous desire to change things to suit them (only to then leave because they thing they changed "just ain't what it used to be" lol).

Why is this hard for you types to understand?

Quote:

No moral equivalence, though. You're complaining about a problem you perceive as much as those you're complaining about are one that they perceive. It's a simple dialectic, one that has existed in every multiplayer game ever. And just like every multiplayer game ever, you have your corner of the game that suits you, and they have theirs. The difference between this game and every other is that you get to choose what you do with that corner, and your corner can overlap theirs.


lol no moral equivalence while going to to say the the other side is...equivalence.

No, their is such at thing as up and down. The folks ism talking about are just as wrong as folks who would want to see EVE online become some kind of sharded thing with pve only servers.

Of course, i'm arguing against the tide of history (and money), EVE will become that which many of us despise, its already happening. It's just sad to see it coming like some kind of unstoppable freight train.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-04-02 16:18:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Its with the people who come into a situation (like EVE, or any video game), don't like it and rather than leave it to those who do, they try to change it to suit them. D amn the history/traditions of tthe game, damn those who like it as is, damn everything but their cancerous desire to change things to suit them (only to then leave because they thing they changed "just ain't what it used to be" lol).


be careful here.
because you just hurt miner gankers and all those 'miners HAVE TO FIT TANKS' crowd.
and all those "reduce high-sec income because it is too safe there"
and all those .....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2013-04-02 16:20:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm not imposing anything, I'm pointing out a truth.

And if you don't think EVe has "rules", go shoot a noob in a starter system and see what happens lol.


You're pointing out your perception of truth, and why are you shooting noobs? Pick on someone you're own size. And that's not the point, anyway. You can still shoot them, but there are consequences.

Quote:
Like many high sec folks, you just don't get it, my beef isn't with people doing what they want. I do what i want, why shouldn't they?

Its with the people who come into a situation (like EVE, or any video game), don't like it and rather than leave it to those who do, they try to change it to suit them. D amn the history/traditions of tthe game, damn those who like it as is, damn everything but their cancerous desire to change things to suit them (only to then leave because they thing they changed "just ain't what it used to be" lol).

Why is this hard for you types to understand?


What leads you to the assumption that I'm in high sec? And what are these "types" you keep referring to?

Quote:
lol no moral equivalence while going to to say the the other side is...equivalence.


Do you even understand the meaning of the word 'dialectic'? It's got nothing to do with "equivalences". I am straining to conceive where you even pulled that from.

Quote:
No, their is such at thing as up and down. The folks ism talking about are just as wrong as folks who would want to see EVE online become some kind of sharded thing with pve only servers.


Honestly, it sounds like you're over-reacting to a non-issue. If they have their own servers, it'll be because you get your own as well, and you'll get rid of the "wusses" and have nothing to complain about. It's not a solution, I know, and it won't happen either, just like a lot of what you seem to be afraid of won't happen.

Quote:
Of course, i'm arguing against the tide of history (and money), EVE will become that which many of us despise, its already happening. It's just sad to see it coming like some kind of unstoppable freight train.


Yep, definitely blowing it out of proportion.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#95 - 2013-04-02 16:31:53 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Its with the people who come into a situation (like EVE, or any video game), don't like it and rather than leave it to those who do, they try to change it to suit them. D amn the history/traditions of tthe game, damn those who like it as is, damn everything but their cancerous desire to change things to suit them (only to then leave because they thing they changed "just ain't what it used to be" lol).


be careful here.
because you just hurt miner gankers and all those 'miners HAVE TO FIT TANKS' crowd.
and all those "reduce high-sec income because it is too safe there"
and all those .....


Nah we are fine. We dont force people to fit a tank, infact, we like it when they don't.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-04-02 17:01:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Its with the people who come into a situation (like EVE, or any video game), don't like it and rather than leave it to those who do, they try to change it to suit them. D amn the history/traditions of tthe game, damn those who like it as is, damn everything but their cancerous desire to change things to suit them (only to then leave because they thing they changed "just ain't what it used to be" lol).


be careful here.
because you just hurt miner gankers and all those 'miners HAVE TO FIT TANKS' crowd.
and all those "reduce high-sec income because it is too safe there"
and all those .....


Nah we are fine. We dont force people to fit a tank, infact, we like it when they don't.

i don't buy this. Cool

because when people are happy no one will whine in forums. And miner gankers tears fill the forums every patch or even more often. Sometime i even can't find ganked miners tears Lol

while we are here: it was cool to see someone with mark like "TEAR ... extraction service" who whined a lot.... Not sure if their group extracts tears from other people. Or their name is like "potato farm" - they extract tears from their own members Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#97 - 2013-04-02 17:11:12 UTC
Quote:

i don't buy this. Cool

because when people are happy no one will whine in forums. And miner gankers tears fill the forums every patch or even more often. Sometime i even can't find ganked miners tears Lol

while we are here: it was cool to see someone with mark like "TEAR ... extraction service" who whined a lot.... Not sure if their group extracts tears from other people. Or their name is like "potato farm" - they extract tears from their own members Lol


See, some people around here have been mistaking complaints about barge balance with "crying". In reality barge ganking took a hit but thanks to most miners picking untanked retreivers with t2 mining gear fitted we still can make a profit. Like always, us bad guys have adapted.
Dave Stark
#98 - 2013-04-02 17:14:01 UTC
everyone should be crying about the barge rebalance, it was terrible on every possible level.

to the point where it's actually profitable to feed the gankers untanked retrievers. i sincerely doubt that was ccp's intent.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2013-04-02 17:15:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Hardcore players don't exist, just players that refer to themselves as hardcore, so that argument is irrelevant. So is an analogy to a game of soccer, because soccer is not a sandbox-style game. It has rules and restrictions, whereas EVE simply has consequences for actions. You've said it yourself before, people who think EVE is played by a set of rules are only imposing those rules on themselves. Now you're trying to impose your own set on everyone that you think isn't suitable for the game.


I'm not imposing anything, I'm pointing out a truth.

And if you don't think EVe has "rules", go shoot a noob in a starter system and see what happens lol.

But I'm not even taling about rules. i don't think anyone should play the way I do or even like (i hate scammers for instance).

Like many high sec folks, you just don't get it, my beef isn't with people doing what they want. I do what i want, why shouldn't they?

Its with the people who come into a situation (like EVE, or any video game), don't like it and rather than leave it to those who do, they try to change it to suit them. D amn the history/traditions of tthe game, damn those who like it as is, damn everything but their cancerous desire to change things to suit them (only to then leave because they thing they changed "just ain't what it used to be" lol).

Why is this hard for you types to understand?

Quote:

No moral equivalence, though. You're complaining about a problem you perceive as much as those you're complaining about are one that they perceive. It's a simple dialectic, one that has existed in every multiplayer game ever. And just like every multiplayer game ever, you have your corner of the game that suits you, and they have theirs. The difference between this game and every other is that you get to choose what you do with that corner, and your corner can overlap theirs.


lol no moral equivalence while going to to say the the other side is...equivalence.

No, their is such at thing as up and down. The folks ism talking about are just as wrong as folks who would want to see EVE online become some kind of sharded thing with pve only servers.

Of course, i'm arguing against the tide of history (and money), EVE will become that which many of us despise, its already happening. It's just sad to see it coming like some kind of unstoppable freight train.


I think you're missing the point.

It's their game too.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#100 - 2013-04-02 17:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Murk Paradox wrote:



I think you're missing the point.

It's their game too.


Theirs to destroy? Because that's what happens. It's like how IRL democracy is great till people realize they can just vote themselves money from the treasury....

EVE is slowly losing something important (that the"progessive" types in their short sighted zealotry don't understand is important not just to everyone, but to them specifically). Any suggestion aimed at stemming the tide to bland sameness is met with cry's of "posting in a nerf highsec thread" lol.

In the grand scheme it doesn't matter,there will be other hardcore pvp based games in the future for carebearism (not meaning to invade, infect and decimate (lol) , it's just sad to see it happen to EVE because of a well intentioned drive by it's developers to open up the game to more people.

(For the record, carebearism doesn't mean pro-pve/anti-pvp but rather they urge to be artificially protected from harm).

Exclusivity (such as EVE had in it's 1st 10 years of existence) might not be the best money making idea in an mmo, but it's the reason IRL why Saks 5th Avenue has an order of magnitude fewer stores than Wal-Wart...... Wal-mart is great but every store doesn't need to be Wal-mart.....

Just say no to Wal-EVE.