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Why risk versus reward doesn't matter
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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#41 - 2013-04-02 12:20:53 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Anymore in GD peeps crying "risk vs reward' is NULL codeword for nerf HI SEC TBH Roll


Yes, because it needs nerfing. How anyone can think that a game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game) will boggle my mind until the day i return to ashes and dust.

CCP can talk about "people who log in should be slightly angry" or whatever the quote was, but as long as high sec is like it is, it will only display a shadow of the chaotic human-driven beauty it can and should always have been.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#42 - 2013-04-02 12:29:01 UTC
The only way to make high sec less profitable is to make veldspar mining less profitable. This can only be done by either increasing supply (mining more of it) or reducing the demand (which only CCP can do and they in fact increased the demand awhile ago)

Any direct attacks on the high sec mining industry itself just decreases supply, increasing prices and make the rest of the miners richer and others more motivated to start doing it.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Dave Stark
#43 - 2013-04-02 12:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
considering veldspar isn't even a profitable ore to mine, you're way off the mark.

4th worst ore in the game, at the moment.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-04-02 12:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Jenn aSide wrote:
...game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game)...

WoW. I see new idea of what is Eve Online supposed to be. Would not ask for proofs (you haven't it anyway).

My personal idea about Eve Online is: this is internet game where i meet other people and do something in space. And nothing i see in the game conflicts with this idea.

Maybe the real problem is: wrong idea of what this game is about? And instead of changing game to meet idea you should change idea to meet the game? Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#45 - 2013-04-02 12:52:26 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
The only way to make high sec less profitable is to make veldspar mining less profitable. This can only be done by either increasing supply (mining more of it) or reducing the demand (which only CCP can do and they in fact increased the demand awhile ago)

Any direct attacks on the high sec mining industry itself just decreases supply, increasing prices and make the rest of the miners richer and others more motivated to start doing it.




It's been at least half a year since it was worth mining lone Veldspar.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#46 - 2013-04-02 12:54:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Anymore in GD peeps crying "risk vs reward' is NULL codeword for nerf HI SEC TBH Roll


Yes, because it needs nerfing. How anyone can think that a game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game) will boggle my mind until the day i return to ashes and dust.

CCP can talk about "people who log in should be slightly angry" or whatever the quote was, but as long as high sec is like it is, it will only display a shadow of the chaotic human-driven beauty it can and should always have been.



How does running exploration sites in Low or doing anything in Low at all help me "exert control over the game " ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
DrClit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-04-02 12:54:53 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Because it has no relationship to how things really work. You can always make the most money in areas where there is the most stability. And when you think about it that makes sense. here is what doesn't.

The price of stability is a higher "price of admission". I could mine gold in the Congo or in Alaska. In the Congo there are less barriers to entry and lower overall costs, but significantly more risk. It is the first part that is missing in EvE hi sec, barriers to entry and higher overall costs.

Nothing is free in a "civilized" nation or space. Where are the mining permits and the subsequent outlaws that mine without a permit? Where are the taxes, beyond corporate taxes, for living in protected space? Docking permits, trade license, etc.

Beyond making the hi sec experience realistic it could add flavor to the game. Loose practices in some factions including corrupt officials or tight laws down to a specific permit required for each type of ore. All available at a local space station.

Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection.


Aw GUUUUUUUUUUWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWD, next you will be asking for a parking permit whilst you sit and mine or rat.

Make sure you pay and display and put in the correct lisence plate on your ticket.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-04-02 12:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Posting in the 10 millionth "nerf highsec" thread.

And as far as risk/reward goes, it's much safer in 0.0....So your premise fell apart when you didn't address that.Oops



Yet another misinformed highsec player spreading misinformation. So show me where are all the blops drops happening at in highsec? You should stick to whining about successful live events.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#49 - 2013-04-02 13:12:05 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Anymore in GD peeps crying "risk vs reward' is NULL codeword for nerf HI SEC TBH Roll


Yes, because it needs nerfing. How anyone can think that a game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game) will boggle my mind until the day i return to ashes and dust.

CCP can talk about "people who log in should be slightly angry" or whatever the quote was, but as long as high sec is like it is, it will only display a shadow of the chaotic human-driven beauty it can and should always have been.



How does running exploration sites in Low or doing anything in Low at all help me "exert control over the game " ?


By denying a market opportunity to other low sec explorers, unlike high sec mission runners (mission running being the most used PVe in high sec) who are getting infinite missions from the same agents other people get infinitemissions from. Mission runners may interact with markets some because of LP, but thats it.

Low sec is still empire that, real player driven madness (other than the markets) happens in nullsec and wormholes That's why you always see null sec and wormholes featured in CCP's Ads for the game. When was the last time we saw a CCP Advert for the game of a dude running mission after mission after bloody mission in high sec?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#50 - 2013-04-02 13:14:59 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
...game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game)...

WoW. I see new idea of what is Eve Online supposed to be. Would not ask for proofs (you haven't it anyway).


So, you've never seen the Developers talk about EVE online? Their are videos on youtube from way back.

Quote:

My personal idea about Eve Online is: this is internet game where i meet other people and do something in space. And nothing i see in the game conflicts with this idea.

Maybe the real problem is: wrong idea of what this game is about? And instead of changing game to meet idea you should change idea to meet the game? Lol


That's simply ignoring what you don't like to hear. What about "high sec" is "cold, harsh and dark"?

I learned everything i could about EVE before I downloaded it, including watching developer videos. When DEVs make a music video telling people to HTFU you kind of see the mind set.

It seems to me CCP has had to compromise the founding principles of the game to keep the game going, because gamers (panseys that they tend to be) can't handle real competition and threat of loss, even in a video game.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#51 - 2013-04-02 13:17:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Anymore in GD peeps crying "risk vs reward' is NULL codeword for nerf HI SEC TBH Roll


Yes, because it needs nerfing. How anyone can think that a game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game) will boggle my mind until the day i return to ashes and dust.

CCP can talk about "people who log in should be slightly angry" or whatever the quote was, but as long as high sec is like it is, it will only display a shadow of the chaotic human-driven beauty it can and should always have been.



How does running exploration sites in Low or doing anything in Low at all help me "exert control over the game " ?


By denying a market opportunity to other low sec explorers, unlike high sec mission runners (mission running being the most used PVe in high sec) who are getting infinite missions from the same agents other people get infinitemissions from. Mission runners may interact with markets some because of LP, but thats it.

Low sec is still empire that, real player driven madness (other than the markets) happens in nullsec and wormholes That's why you always see null sec and wormholes featured in CCP's Ads for the game. When was the last time we saw a CCP Advert for the game of a dude running mission after mission after bloody mission in high sec?


You seem to be implying that there are no High Sec Exploration Sites that allow one to 'deny market opportunity' to others.

Or that there is not any Market manipulation or Market PvP going on in High Sec.

Are these not 'exerting control over the game' as well ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
BJ McGreaves
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-04-02 13:41:06 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
I enjoy Highsec as well as nullsec. I'm also a dirty annoying roleplayer.

I like the idea of a higher cost of living in highsec. I don't think it should be anything significant... maybe 100-1000 ISK per station docking or stargate jumping request depending on the system's security status, increasing even more if you have a lower security status. That may not seem like much, but for the active player it would quickly add up, without being an undue burden for those not doing much.

Mining permits are also a great idea, but I'm unsure how you imagine them working mechanically.


I'm sorry, but your Avatar is hot as hell.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#53 - 2013-04-02 13:44:43 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Andski wrote:
imagine a space-themed amusement park and you have several rides

that's what eve is basically going towards


Gee never herd this before. The theme park is the BLUE section of null-sec the blue doughnut the sea of blue.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#54 - 2013-04-02 13:50:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
...game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game)...

WoW. I see new idea of what is Eve Online supposed to be. Would not ask for proofs (you haven't it anyway).


So, you've never seen the Developers talk about EVE online? Their are videos on youtube from way back.

Quote:

My personal idea about Eve Online is: this is internet game where i meet other people and do something in space. And nothing i see in the game conflicts with this idea.

Maybe the real problem is: wrong idea of what this game is about? And instead of changing game to meet idea you should change idea to meet the game? Lol


That's simply ignoring what you don't like to hear. What about "high sec" is "cold, harsh and dark"?

I learned everything i could about EVE before I downloaded it, including watching developer videos. When DEVs make a music video telling people to HTFU you kind of see the mind set.

It seems to me CCP has had to compromise the founding principles of the game to keep the game going, because gamers (panseys that they tend to be) can't handle real competition and threat of loss, even in a video game.





You guys really need to come up with some new material. This stuff is the same old tired crap you been spewing in all other past post you dont like that degrades to trolling until you get the thread locked because you dont like it or agree with it.

Many changes have came to eve and those changes will continue if the game is to not only survive but also grow....So HTFU and deal with it.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-04-02 13:57:08 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
I enjoy Highsec as well as nullsec. I'm also a dirty annoying roleplayer.

I like the idea of a higher cost of living in highsec. I don't think it should be anything significant... maybe 100-1000 ISK per station docking or stargate jumping request depending on the system's security status, increasing even more if you have a lower security status. That may not seem like much, but for the active player it would quickly add up, without being an undue burden for those not doing much.

Mining permits are also a great idea, but I'm unsure how you imagine them working mechanically.



Having a 100k isk docking fee in Empire space while under a wardec would be fun. Would help curtail some of those station games and force someone to choose to commit or withdraw.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#56 - 2013-04-02 13:58:55 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Anymore in GD peeps crying "risk vs reward' is NULL codeword for nerf HI SEC TBH Roll


Yes, because it needs nerfing. How anyone can think that a game that supposed to be about player control and interaction having a zone so stable most player never choose to leave it (and thus never try to exert any control over the game) will boggle my mind until the day i return to ashes and dust.

CCP can talk about "people who log in should be slightly angry" or whatever the quote was, but as long as high sec is like it is, it will only display a shadow of the chaotic human-driven beauty it can and should always have been.



How does running exploration sites in Low or doing anything in Low at all help me "exert control over the game " ?


By denying a market opportunity to other low sec explorers, unlike high sec mission runners (mission running being the most used PVe in high sec) who are getting infinite missions from the same agents other people get infinitemissions from. Mission runners may interact with markets some because of LP, but thats it.

Low sec is still empire that, real player driven madness (other than the markets) happens in nullsec and wormholes That's why you always see null sec and wormholes featured in CCP's Ads for the game. When was the last time we saw a CCP Advert for the game of a dude running mission after mission after bloody mission in high sec?


You seem to be implying that there are no High Sec Exploration Sites that allow one to 'deny market opportunity' to others.

Or that there is not any Market manipulation or Market PvP going on in High Sec.

Are these not 'exerting control over the game' as well ?


Not to the same extent as in other places, no. Is the Gallente Federation going to cede control of Dodixie to you because you ran 10,000 missions?

There is real player interaction in high sec (in the markets and in things like the new order, hulkageddon, Ice Interdiction and the like), but most high sec activities are no more meaningful or impactful than riding a ride at Six Flags or Disney World. And most characters are in high sec.

EVE's real potential is outside of CONCORD protection, yet even in a game like EVE, the average human being can't get past the idea of losing PIXELS long enough to do anything meaningful (in the game sense). Whi8le i believe "to each his own", it seems like a huge waste, like a single player game of checkers.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#57 - 2013-04-02 14:00:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
(panseys that they tend to be)





Well, at least that's true in my case.............

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#58 - 2013-04-02 14:03:11 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:



You guys really need to come up with some new material. This stuff is the same old tired crap you been spewing in all other past post you dont like that degrades to trolling until you get the thread locked because you dont like it or agree with it.

Many changes have came to eve and those changes will continue if the game is to not only survive but also grow....So HTFU and deal with it.



What i'll never understand is why you types (and you are in EVERy video game with multiplayer and every MMO) can't just leave folks like us alone to have out harsh high competition cut throat games without coming in and trying to water it down.

We get it, you can't stand "losing" even in a game, but where is there for those of us who don't care about that. After you finish ruining EVE, taking it from the unique game experience it was and making it into yet another bland "hold my hand, it's scary in the dark" themepark MMO, what next?

Your type is extremely shortsighted, you hate the things that make EVE what it is and want ccp to change them, not realizing that when the watering down is done, YOU won't like that EVE any more than I do.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-04-02 14:05:50 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:

And as far as risk/reward goes, it's much safer in 0.0....So your premise fell apart when you didn't address that.Oops

Players work to make it stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord.

Hi-Sec could always turn off Concord and have the safety of Null brought right to them. It would be easier right Bob. Lol



I'm sure this makes sense to you....

So you expect new players, who have no idea how the game really works, to organize and protect themselves against players with much greater SP, much deeper pockets, and greater numbers and organization? Roll

Did you even stop to consider anything, other than your own need to grief noobs?


Because highsec is clearly full of only new players.

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#60 - 2013-04-02 14:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Jenn aSide wrote:


EVE's real potential is outside of CONCORD protection, yet even in a game like EVE, the average human being can't get past the idea of losing PIXELS long enough to do anything meaningful (in the game sense). Whi8le i believe "to each his own", it seems like a huge waste, like a single player game of checkers.



But what about The Blob and such. Dynamism of which you are describing has been killed by the players themselves IMHO.


Jenn aSide wrote:
Not to the same extent as in other places, no. Is the Gallente Federation going to cede control of Dodixie to you because you ran 10,000 missions?


The Factions do not cede control anywhere except in FW....a very limited part of the game indeed.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882