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Battleships still relevant?
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Vricrolatious
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#21 - 2011-10-30 02:15:44 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
Of course they will be. If i had a guess, for fleet fights i would say BS's are going to be the new anti-support fleet ship. With caps being able to do f*ck all to sub caps, BS hordes would demolish the new bc's. The new BC's seem like they are going to be primarliy anti-cap ships (lower sig radius than reg bc, huge damage, low tank).

But thats only a guess


If the leaked stats stay as they are, the Naga looks like heavy, non cloaking bomber with the torp bonuses. It should make things interesting, at least I hope.

WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot! -Vric
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-10-30 23:51:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Satav wrote:
Just thought i'd throw a question out there to see what u guys think.

Will Battleships still be relevant tools in large fleet warfare after the addition of tier 3 BCs?

Since a lot (not all) BS fleets are alpha fleets anyway is there any point in flying a BS anymore?

Looking forward to your input.


After the nerfs to capitals and supercapitals (not being able/having tough time killing subcapitals), Im pretty sure battleships are going to have a huge increase in popularity.

No idea what t3 battlecruisers will be good for. We will be wiser when they are on SiSi.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#23 - 2011-10-31 07:58:27 UTC
Cillet Baang Scott wrote:

-Machs


Machariel is not really bs, it is cruiser with BS size guns and capital size model.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#24 - 2011-10-31 08:42:46 UTC
Battleships will still have their place in Empire war decs, where you need a buffer to survive deaggroing so you can dock up and then sit in station for 5 hours bawwing in Local about how neutral RR sucks and it was unfair.

The 3t BC's are going to get vaped on undock games, plus or minus neutral RR being effective. Without neutral RR I wouldn't undock something as thin as 35K EHP.

BS's are still valuable for lowsec piracy, where you need to tank gate guns. Also for POS sieges, where you need the ability to weather a bit of punishment.

The 3t BC's will come into their own in roaming fleets, where you will be able to use their maneuverability to kite the enemy and hopefully survive the incoming DPS while laying crazy DPS on the foe. However, they still have BS sized guns, and (pending stats) PYFA suggests 0.05r/s tracking on the Tornado vs 0.13 on a Cyclone or Cane with 425's. These Bc's will be heavily vulnerable to cruisers and HACs (except perhaps the Talos if it gets its webs in). I will enjoy seeing the first rash of killmails from these things. I wouldn't take one toe vs toe with a Vaga, Cyna or even a Dramiel or Daredevil.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#25 - 2011-10-31 09:59:09 UTC
Aessaya wrote:
I think the new BCs will be somewhere around Command Ships for dps and nowhere near for tank, but maneuverable as other BCs. Should be great for small/medium wolfpacks to pick off stragglers and vanish before the main fleet reacts.

There's one thing, though, that worries me: the fate of HACs. They've already seen a lot of decrease in usage since nano nerf and Tech3 introduction, they vere hit greatly by tier 2 BC introduction as well. I'm afraid these new BCs might strike a finishing blow on this once universally feared shipclass or leave them only a niche role (think vagabonds). Yet i eagerly avait the rise of sniper bc gangs made up of tier 3 BCs :)



HACs had been hitted hard with rise of the navy cruisers. I personally like most of the navy cruisers over the HACs.
Jamaican Herbsman
I Love You Mary Jane
#26 - 2011-11-02 00:33:27 UTC
Demon View wrote:
Katie Frost wrote:
Remember that this is a T3 ship. If T3 Cruisers are anything to go by,


Tier 3, not Tech 3.


This will never end
How2FoldSoup
Hull Tanking Elitists
#27 - 2011-11-03 19:44:09 UTC
Wylee Coyote wrote:
If the leaked tier3 BC info is true (and I'm reading it correctly), the new BCs have 8 highs but only 4-5 turrets (and can fit BS sized weapons). I am unable to understand how a ship with only 4-5 BS sized weapons, no drones (except lights for Gallente) and (supposed) crap for tank will replace a BS with 8 BS sized weapons (6 for Dominix), BS hp and tank and drones.


You are reading it wrong, each ship gets ~8 hardpoints for its racial weapon system. I too COULD be wrong too so I'd love to be corrected if I were. With the first notes using the talos as an example it could push an upwards of 1400 dps so these aren't anything to talk badly about. This of course was a glass cannon fit and before they took out drones.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#28 - 2011-11-03 22:12:47 UTC
Demon View wrote:
Katie Frost wrote:
Remember that this is a T3 ship. If T3 Cruisers are anything to go by,


Tier 3, not Tech 3.


They really need names that start with different letters...
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
#29 - 2011-11-03 23:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Calapine
Teamosil wrote:
Demon View wrote:


Tier 3, not Tech 3.


They really need names that start with different letters...



Maybe Grade? As in Tech 1 Grade 3...

Re OP: It's really hard to answer without knowing the actual tank and having a working fit. I remember seeing a Tornado Arty setup with 39k EHP being posted. If those numbers are correct CCP failed at the 'paper-thin-tank' part and instead introduced a new wave of FOTM pwn-ships.

Cala

Pain is short, and joy is eternal.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2011-11-04 18:16:36 UTC
Calapine wrote:
Teamosil wrote:
Demon View wrote:


Tier 3, not Tech 3.


They really need names that start with different letters...



Maybe Grade? As in Tech 1 Grade 3...

Re OP: It's really hard to answer without knowing the actual tank and having a working fit. I remember seeing a Tornado Arty setup with 39k EHP being posted. If those numbers are correct CCP failed at the 'paper-thin-tank' part and instead introduced a new wave of FOTM pwn-ships.

Cala

39k is pretty thin bro, maels can get twice as much
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-11-04 19:45:49 UTC
Calapine wrote:
Teamosil wrote:
Demon View wrote:


Tier 3, not Tech 3.


They really need names that start with different letters...



Maybe Grade? As in Tech 1 Grade 3...

Re OP: It's really hard to answer without knowing the actual tank and having a working fit. I remember seeing a Tornado Arty setup with 39k EHP being posted. If those numbers are correct CCP failed at the 'paper-thin-tank' part and instead introduced a new wave of FOTM pwn-ships.

Cala



39k EHP?

Was this before or after the latest adjustments to their armour and shields?
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#32 - 2011-11-04 19:49:33 UTC
Calapine wrote:

Re OP: It's really hard to answer without knowing the actual tank and having a working fit. I remember seeing a Tornado Arty setup with 39k EHP being posted. If those numbers are correct CCP failed at the 'paper-thin-tank' part and instead introduced a new wave of FOTM pwn-ships.

Cala


39k is a bit on the thin side of EHP for a PvP battlecruiser though. If they push it down into the 20k-30k EHP band, then you're in the cruiser range. If it was up around 60-80k EHP (which is more normal for a BC from what I recall), I think you'd have more cause to complain.

40k EHP should be about right. The question would be what an AC-fit Tornado can do for tank.
Ragnar Skoordsen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-11-04 19:50:58 UTC
Aessaya wrote:
I think the new BCs will be somewhere around Command Ships for dps and nowhere near for tank, but maneuverable as other BCs. Should be great for small/medium wolfpacks to pick off stragglers and vanish before the main fleet reacts.

There's one thing, though, that worries me: the fate of HACs. They've already seen a lot of decrease in usage since nano nerf and Tech3 introduction, they vere hit greatly by tier 2 BC introduction as well. I'm afraid these new BCs might strike a finishing blow on this once universally feared shipclass or leave them only a niche role (think vagabonds). Yet i eagerly avait the rise of sniper bc gangs made up of tier 3 BCs :)



I only see HAC's becoming more specialized. Your example of the vagabond is perfect. Still viable in solo but excellent as a high speed tackle in fleets.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2011-11-04 21:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
How2FoldSoup wrote:
Wylee Coyote wrote:
If the leaked tier3 BC info is true (and I'm reading it correctly), the new BCs have 8 highs but only 4-5 turrets (and can fit BS sized weapons). I am unable to understand how a ship with only 4-5 BS sized weapons, no drones (except lights for Gallente) and (supposed) crap for tank will replace a BS with 8 BS sized weapons (6 for Dominix), BS hp and tank and drones.


You are reading it wrong, each ship gets ~8 hardpoints for its racial weapon system. I too COULD be wrong too so I'd love to be corrected if I were. With the first notes using the talos as an example it could push an upwards of 1400 dps so these aren't anything to talk badly about. This of course was a glass cannon fit and before they took out drones.


I did missread the number of bonuses for turrets, my apologies.

Also, as of this post, the tier3 BCs are currently available on SISI for testing.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-11-05 01:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Desudes
A boost to BS EHP sounds reasonable to me, if you're going to put same level DPS on small EHP ships. BSs are pretty rare, and some more EHP wouldn't overpower them but would help them in their role.

Alternatively, boosting local reppers would also help keep BSs from becoming obsolete. X% local repper role bonus to all Battleships (added on, not replacing whats already there) and/or neut weakness reduction.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-11-05 10:29:40 UTC
Cpt Fina wrote:
Calapine wrote:
Teamosil wrote:
Demon View wrote:


Tier 3, not Tech 3.


They really need names that start with different letters...



Maybe Grade? As in Tech 1 Grade 3...

Re OP: It's really hard to answer without knowing the actual tank and having a working fit. I remember seeing a Tornado Arty setup with 39k EHP being posted. If those numbers are correct CCP failed at the 'paper-thin-tank' part and instead introduced a new wave of FOTM pwn-ships.

Cala



39k EHP?

Was this before or after the latest adjustments to their armour and shields?

You can get that now with a four slot tank on sisi dual invulnerable lse photon and cdfe with lunchbox

It's not going to be close to cap stable with a med though......locks ad far as a mack though
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-11-05 14:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Smacker
Wylee Coyote wrote:
If the leaked tier3 BC info is true (and I'm reading it correctly), the new BCs have 8 highs but only 4-5 turrets (and can fit BS sized weapons). I am unable to understand how a ship with only 4-5 BS sized weapons, no drones (except lights for Gallente) and (supposed) crap for tank will replace a BS with 8 BS sized weapons (6 for Dominix), BS hp and tank and drones.

If this is true, I actually find it encouraging. They won't be complete alpha monsters.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
#38 - 2011-11-05 14:33:08 UTC
Dirk Smacker wrote:
Wylee Coyote wrote:
If the leaked tier3 BC info is true (and I'm reading it correctly), the new BCs have 8 highs but only 4-5 turrets (and can fit BS sized weapons). I am unable to understand how a ship with only 4-5 BS sized weapons, no drones (except lights for Gallente) and (supposed) crap for tank will replace a BS with 8 BS sized weapons (6 for Dominix), BS hp and tank and drones.

If this is true, I actually find it encouraging. They won't be complete alpha monsters.


It's not, time to get used to 8-Arty-Alpha Tornados...

Pain is short, and joy is eternal.
Essensia
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#39 - 2011-11-06 01:23:57 UTC
I read that the ORACLE does near as much dps as a Baddon...

I wonder if a cloak can be fit on it :)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-11-06 10:10:09 UTC
Calapine wrote:
Dirk Smacker wrote:
Wylee Coyote wrote:
If the leaked tier3 BC info is true (and I'm reading it correctly), the new BCs have 8 highs but only 4-5 turrets (and can fit BS sized weapons). I am unable to understand how a ship with only 4-5 BS sized weapons, no drones (except lights for Gallente) and (supposed) crap for tank will replace a BS with 8 BS sized weapons (6 for Dominix), BS hp and tank and drones.

If this is true, I actually find it encouraging. They won't be complete alpha monsters.


It's not, time to get used to 8-Arty-Alpha Tornados...



Indeed, and a simple ACR lets 1400mm atrys fit.

Its only got four low slots though, so it won't be quite as bad as your standard alpha Mael, but they are a HELL of a lot cheaper and damn near as fast as a fleet stabber.

Damn things are going to be make low-sec interesting. Methinks you are going to need 70k eHP to make it off a gate in an gateway system for a while. 800mm Tornadoes are going to be wonderful for general messing around if you can get your opponents into a running battle its simply going to rock the house.
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