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CCP Any changes to Mining for Winter 2012?

First post First post
Author
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#201 - 2011-10-30 23:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: sYnc Vir
Static belts are a pvp spot removing them moves all pvp to stations and gates or if a fleet is endlessly stupid a planet.

Mini Games is a no, because bots can do them better then people.

Entering a code is a no, bots can do that while some people would have trouble reading those dumbass things.

Did it ever enter your minds that mining was meant to be boring?

Do your changes make it impossible to multi box mine? Lots of people don't just mine into jet cans like idiots. Some people actually go all out, have 3-4 hulks and an orca. No these are not botters just people that alt tab alot.


The best thing that can be done to help mining are

  • Increasing powergrid so hulks can fit a Large Shield Extender II
  • Increase Orca bonuses (Already done with new T2 Gang links)
  • Stop Hulks from fitting Any Active repping mod. (Not all miners use them, all bots do.)
  • Its about time Null Sec miners got their T3 mining ship
  • Mining Rigs wouldn't be out of place, every thing else has rig improvements.
  • Not sure if their is one, but a public list of banned botters, Give those roaming alpha strike teams a whos who.



If CCP wanna toss in allowing Rorquals in high sec I wouldn't complain but something tells me thats a pipe dream. Second Pipe dream is that old mining carrier people were banging drums about on the old forum. Third is of course the fourth high slot on a hulk. O dreams.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2011-10-30 23:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Vincent Gaines wrote:
David Grogan wrote:
[quote=Vincent Gaines]

a single reinforcement timer would be necessary to allow owners a chance to defend their mining colonies

but that said all mining colony structures eggs (500,000m3) require a freighter to deploy (opportunity for pirates to gank more)

High sec megaroids

limited to 0.7 -> 0.5 sec max total yield over a 30 day period 5,000,000m3 per colony max number spawned per system 5

50% veldspar 25% scordite 10% plagioclase 7.5% omber, 7.5% pyroxeres

Corp Faction standing required 5.0 for 0.5 sec sytems 6.0 for 0.6 sec systems 7.0 for 0.7 sec systems

requires pos fuels & a group of miners (item exists - currently a mission item but they could become items to buy n sell on market) to maintain, requires strontium for reinforcement timer

high sec mining colony structure stats
10,000,000 Shield HP (all resist types @ 50%)
2,500,000 Armor HP (all resist types @ 40%)
2,000,000 Structure HP (all resist types @ 30%)

Low sec megaroids

limited to 0.4 -> 0.1 sec max total yield over a 30 day period 25,000,000m3 per colony max number spawned per system 10

28% veldspar 20% scordite 10% plagioclase, omber, & pyroxeres, 4% Jaspet, Gneiss, Spodmanium, Hemorphite & Hedbergite 1% Dark Ocher & Crokite

requires pos fuels & a group of miners (item exists - currently a mission item but they could become items to buy n sell on market) to maintain, requires strontium for reinforcement timer

low sec mining colony structure stats
40,000,000 Shield HP (all resist types @ 50%)
10,000,000 Armor HP (all resist types @ 40%)
10,000,000 Structure HP (all resist types @ 30%)

can have upto of 5 medium or 10 small pos guns anchored in range (no ewar mods though)

Null sec megaroids (NPC null sec)

limited to 0.0 sec or lower, max total yield over a 30 day period 50,000,000m3 per colony max number spawned per system 10

24% veldspar 15% scordite 10% plagioclase, omber, & pyroxeres, 5% Jaspet, Gneiss, Hemorphite & Hedbergite 2% Spodmanium, Dark Ocher, Crokite, Bistot, & Arkonor, 1% Mercoxit

requires pos fuels & a group of miners (item exists - currently a mission item but they could become items to buy n sell on market) to maintain, requires strontium for reinforcement timer

npc null sec mining colony structure stats
75,000,000 Shield HP (all resist types @ 50%)
25,000,000 Armor HP (all resist types @ 40%)
20,000,000 Structure HP (all resist types @ 40%)
A Corp Faction standing of 6.0 to the NPC faction that owns the region will give a 25% reduction in fuel costs)
can have upto of 5 medium or 10 small pos guns anchored in range (no ewar mods though)

Null sec megaroids (SOV Nullsec)

limited to 0.0 sec or lower, max total yield over a 30 day period 75,000,000m3 per colony max number spawned per system 5 per level of i-hub industry upgrade.

24% veldspar 15% scordite 10% plagioclase, omber, & pyroxeres, 5% Jaspet, Gneiss, Hemorphite & Hedbergite 2% Spodmanium, Dark Ocher, Crokite, Bistot, & Arkonor, 1% Mercoxit

requires pos fuels & a group of miners (item exists - currently a mission item but they could become items to buy n sell on market) to maintain, requires strontium for reinforcement timer

sov null sec mining colony structure stats
75,000,000 Shield HP (all resist types @ 50%)
25,000,000 Armor HP (all resist types @ 40%)
20,000,000 Structure HP (all resist types @ 40%)
bonus to sov holders = requires 50% less fuels to maintain
can have a upto 5 medium or 10 small pos guns anchored in range (no ewar mods though)

After the 30 days expire

if the mining colony survives 30 days the megaroid becomes barren and the colony structure & guns auto-unanchor and is vunerable to be 1. stolen (needs a freighter to scoop and move) or 2. be destroyed without having a reinforcement cycle.

mining colony eggs are made from PI & ore minerals much like the new customs offices will be. a mining colony should cost around the 200mil mark per egg



Ok, first, you understand that the sov colonies you proposed have 102 MILLION EHP, and with 50% omni... really? REALLY? For a little mining colony?

Even your hisec EHP totals would make it a complete pain in the ass for a subcap fleet.

On top of that your yields * number in system would quickly flood the market again and prices would drop to worthless levels. You would never receive a return. 5 per hisec system with 5m m3?

And your nullsec output is even more damaging.. mind you this is all afk with little to no interaction on the part of the owner... It's too much easy ISK and would be abused.



get real.......... making them toooooooooo easy to kill is not what its meant to be about...... the high sec one is no toughter to kill than a small pos

the low sec one is equivalent to a properly fitted medium pos

the large ones will definitely require dreads or a 200 man bs gang.......... but then that is what eve is meant to be about, ie: getting FLEETS to do stuff.

noone mines anymore in nullsec unless its dark glitter......... most of the mins in null sec come from hauler spawn drops. OR reprocess 425mm railgun 1's

everyone whines that all the industry is done in high sec........ my proposal would actually make it feasable to do it in null sec again.

also the large colonies for null sec are roughly the same ehp as an I-Hub.

but owing to the fact i suggested a freighter be required to deploy them makes them much more worth defending.... particularly if your a small renter alliance.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Yao Ying
Life. Universe. Everything.
#203 - 2011-10-30 23:36:21 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
Let them solve captches once a minute. No more bots and mining is 1684668433546times more interactive, challenging and fun. (fun for all the others that laugh at miners) Big smile


Til a captcha pops up when you notice a hostile in warp to your location on scanner and fail to get away due to it. :V
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#204 - 2011-10-30 23:39:35 UTC
Super extra dense veldspar in 0.0 is a must.
Cypermethren
Perkone
Caldari State
#205 - 2011-10-31 01:24:27 UTC
The most valuable ore in Highsec is Morphite.


The most valuable ore in 0.0 is Veldspar.


this needs to change, big time.

A new trit or needs to be placed in 0.0 that gives tenfold trit returns or the such.

As for making mining interesting, i cant come up with anything off the top of my head, but god ive seen some good ideas in this thread.
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#206 - 2011-10-31 06:11:31 UTC
Pokemon Pearl did it best.

http://youtu.be/z-9gwT7A0wA?t=3m

"I keep on smashing it, and it keeps on going to the left."

PIZZA CEO

pussnheels
Viziam
#207 - 2011-10-31 06:33:10 UTC
there some good ideas in here , mining does indeed some new life but on some conditions

one NO new barge that is better than the hulk , because this will only make the bots happier

two it has to stay accesible for new players

Second probablty eve more important

other than that i don't really care how they will change aslong it gives miners a better opportunity to make a kiving

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2011-10-31 08:06:09 UTC
Elanor Vega wrote:
This:

Avila Cracko wrote:
to update list of that guy before:

- make belts so that you must scan them... i dont think botts can do scanning very well... (maybe add some more statics on scans too so that you must have brain to see its only static)
- static belts have only very small roids for new players... (strips dont have use if it)
- when you left scanned belt its gone... you must scan again...
- make roid stealing criminal act so you can shoot that person - botts dont see what roid you mine...
- make fleeting with other players and making real ops more rewarding then solo mining (orca boost better) - botts dont fleet
- Boost rats - botts have more problems with defending themself then real people, and it would be more involving.



With more comments here:

Avila Cracko wrote:
Gheng Kondur wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:
to update list of that guy before:

- make belts so that you must scan them... i dont think botts can do scanning very well... (maybe add some more statics on scans too so that you must have brain to see its only static)
- static belts have only very small roids for new players... (strips dont have use if it)
- when you left scanned belt its gone... you must scan again...
- make roid stealing criminal act so you can shoot that person - botts dont see what roid you mine...
- make fleeting with other players and making real ops more rewarding then solo mining (orca boost better) - botts dont fleet
- Boost rats - botts have more problems with defending themself then real people, and it would be more involving.


for 1, well I already do that, it's called grav sites. But more with basic ore would make it work.
for 2, good call,
for 3, no thanks, why would it just vanish when not mined out
for 4, would work better if you staked your claim on the field you scan down
for 5, ok, but remember the loan miners
for 6, escalation would be better. Those unthinking bots that sit and tank should find themselves being swarmed as the word goes out that the pirates have found somebody asleep. Couple of high sec rats easily tanked, but more and better as they swarm, and bye bye bot hulk.

For other comments about micro games etc., I already have that, it's called goon spotting and I don't need anything distracting me from that



thnx for responce...

about 1st.
that is the point... all larger roids (all ores that can be in that system) are in grav sites.

about 2nd.
Thnx.

about 3rd.
Thats because i was thinking about botters... bot user can scan down many belts in the morning and then make bot to mine in them all day... this way you need to scan... or mine with friend so that you can keep belt alive... (i dont think about dead as soon as you warp out... but dead some time (10 minutes or so) so that if you just want to unload and warp back... you can)

about 4th.
there need some work to be done on that sugestions so that ppl that want easy kills dont exploit that systems.

about 5th.
i dont think about making it that you can only mine in fleet but a little more boost would help and would show players the way to socialisation (this is MMO)

about 6th.
a little boost (maybe scram) and escalation would be the best... every mining ship can use drones that easily kill rats.



^^ I like it soooo much, a little more work is needed, but great base... Attention
and i think that its simple for implementation.



bump for ideas in this quote.

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#209 - 2011-10-31 08:59:03 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Static belts are a pvp spot removing them moves all pvp to stations and gates or if a fleet is endlessly stupid a planet.



Because no pvp'er would ever sully himself with scanning. Roll

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!

sellano
14th Legion
#210 - 2011-10-31 09:33:44 UTC
I was interested in the idea of comets.
I imagined they might appear randomly and follow a path around the galaxy, passing close enough to systems on occasion to allow people to get to them. Perhaps they would need to be scanned by deep space probe, or a deep space survey probe or something, specific to the task, and you could scan it for over the the course of some short time and plot its orbit, determining when and where you can get to it ~

After getting onto one (and into orbit of it to keep up as it would probably be very fast) , there would need to be some reason why you couldn't just stay on it as it's leaving the system.
Tribunia
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2011-10-31 10:32:02 UTC
Are you lot crazy? Mini games? Captchas? WTF?!! Youre trolling right?

I said if before over the years and I ll say it once more.

Mining in space isnt a human interactive occupation. It s practialy made for robots. Also, my take on it is that it should be one of the most skill intensive occupations in the game rather than every n00bs feeding hook. Make the greenhorns run couriers or missions or maybe poke at roids manually with a laser (shoot the roid and collect the upfloating debris into your hold by scooping it much like anything else you scoop from space today), providing for a yeild fit to sustain a new character intitial progress.

It should simply consist of a number of autonomous modules that you deploy to an asteroid surface.

Mining sequence illustrated in in a few simpel steps:

1) Prospect for ore worth mining, ie you actually have to FIND an asteoid with veins worth mining (asteroid sized nuggets should be a bonus find and quite rare). To make this worthwhile, the asteroid belts as we know them today would have to go and be replaced by a fractal model, cirumnavigating entire planets or even be a dispersed rock field in orbit around the sun (much like our own real-life asteroid belt) that you really could get lost in. How prospecting should be implemented? Well, provided we get the new belts it s just to take a look at how you do prospecting IRL and apply it to FIS. This is the bit where it should be fun, TO ACTUALLY MAKE THE FIND rather than to just warp robotheaded to a generic asteroid belt on the context menu! :P

2) Once prospecting is done and the actual extraction process is about to commence you just deploy your autonomous extraction units onto the asteroid surface. Extraction is fully automated and once a silo attached to an extractor unit is full, you get an allert email. How fast the automated extraction process needs to be is a target for careful balancing obviosuly. Apprantly it needs to be way lower than actual manual extraction as you can engage in paralell income activities while your extractors do the mindnumbingly boring bit of the work for you.

3) Collecting from the silos would be either by automated shuttling of the silo itself to station/POS and then returning to it s parent extractor unit for continnuing extraction, or manually by hauler as we are already oh so familiar and bored with. Extractor silos in flight, ie just detached and initiating warp or on a docking run at a station should be vulnerable to attack ofc and it s wreck lootable as should the extractor unit itself.

If anyone would care to run a macro after this I would be totally wtf! Lol

Quetazal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2011-10-31 12:04:54 UTC
Some kind of 'Minecraft' version when you control a mining drone harvesting out the ores... great for multiple players!
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#213 - 2011-10-31 17:44:42 UTC
Quetazal wrote:
Some kind of 'Minecraft' version when you control a mining drone harvesting out the ores... great for multiple players!



Can you do that with four accouts? Or do people have to start selling their 2nd, 3rd and 4th hulk pilots?

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2011-10-31 18:22:32 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Quetazal wrote:
Some kind of 'Minecraft' version when you control a mining drone harvesting out the ores... great for multiple players!



Can you do that with four accouts? Or do people have to start selling their 2nd, 3rd and 4th hulk pilots?


THIS!!!!

Some terribad ideas in here. Captcha, recaptcha, minigames, "roid theft" Lol (yeah because that belt belongs to you) Lol increasing ore. All bad.

Any ideas which prohibit the use of multi-box would hit ccp in the pocket.

The main scourge of miners are the rat botters in drone space.

Want better prices for your time, then getting rid of botters will do a great job at that. If it is CCP through bans or players via report function, ganks.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2011-10-31 18:32:28 UTC
Captain Megadeath wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
Quetazal wrote:
Some kind of 'Minecraft' version when you control a mining drone harvesting out the ores... great for multiple players!



Can you do that with four accouts? Or do people have to start selling their 2nd, 3rd and 4th hulk pilots?


THIS!!!!

Some terribad ideas in here. Captcha, recaptcha, minigames, "roid theft" Lol (yeah because that belt belongs to you) Lol increasing ore. All bad.

Any ideas which prohibit the use of multi-box would hit ccp in the pocket.

The main scourge of miners are the rat botters in drone space.

Want better prices for your time, then getting rid of botters will do a great job at that. If it is CCP through bans or players via report function, ganks.


Do people actually play 4 miner accounts at once? Lets be honest, at least 3 of those are botted.

There was a guy that got ganked and scammed by goons recently, he mentioned he has TWENTY ONE miners he runs at the same time.

If an element of the game is so boring that you can literally do it 21 times over at the same time without any interaction, then it needs to be fiddled with. Period.
Dr Prometheus
Gears of Construction
Gears Confederation
#216 - 2011-10-31 19:10:45 UTC
I have multiple miners and a Orca i control by myself without any bots or something, makes mining for me a challenge as i am actively checking my miners how full they are; played a long time ago in a 0.0 enviroment, and i find my current way of mining more active then ratting fof example.

As a normal person 5 miners are controlable within human boundries, (excl the Orca wich is number 6 but he doesnt need to do a lot.)

Everyone with more of those are either more superhuman then me or botters.

Just want to make clear that there are still people with multiple miners who are legit. ;)

Dude, where is my Quafe Megathron?

Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#217 - 2011-10-31 19:30:43 UTC
Dr Prometheus wrote:
I have multiple miners and a Orca i control by myself without any bots or something, makes mining for me a challenge as i am actively checking my miners how full they are; played a long time ago in a 0.0 enviroment, and i find my current way of mining more active then ratting fof example.

As a normal person 5 miners are controlable within human boundries, (excl the Orca wich is number 6 but he doesnt need to do a lot.)

Everyone with more of those are either more superhuman then me or botters.

Just want to make clear that there are still people with multiple miners who are legit. ;)


Hey man,

That sounds like a logistical feat for sure. I'd like to mine, why? I have no idea, but on 1 account, I find it just too dull. Perhaps it would be more fun if it were as you do it, but I don't really want 5 accounts!

I'd be sad if mining changed such that multiboxes couldn't do it, but I also with the actual process of mining were more engaging for those who want to do it NON-afk,

AG
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#218 - 2011-10-31 19:40:40 UTC
Xython wrote:
Captain Megadeath wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
Quetazal wrote:
Some kind of 'Minecraft' version when you control a mining drone harvesting out the ores... great for multiple players!



Can you do that with four accouts? Or do people have to start selling their 2nd, 3rd and 4th hulk pilots?


THIS!!!!

Some terribad ideas in here. Captcha, recaptcha, minigames, "roid theft" Lol (yeah because that belt belongs to you) Lol increasing ore. All bad.

Any ideas which prohibit the use of multi-box would hit ccp in the pocket.

The main scourge of miners are the rat botters in drone space.

Want better prices for your time, then getting rid of botters will do a great job at that. If it is CCP through bans or players via report function, ganks.


Do people actually play 4 miner accounts at once? Lets be honest, at least 3 of those are botted.

There was a guy that got ganked and scammed by goons recently, he mentioned he has TWENTY ONE miners he runs at the same time.

If an element of the game is so boring that you can literally do it 21 times over at the same time without any interaction, then it needs to be fiddled with. Period.



Yes they do, and no that doesn't mean they have some botting. Mining only requires lock, F1,2,3 then empty every 131 seconds. Easy enough on 4 accounts. Ice mining is even easier cause you get 250 ish seconds. 21 is extreme of course but typically multiboxers use an ORCA. I could be wrong here, but I didn't think bots could use an orca/hulk combo.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

Snabbik Shigen
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2011-10-31 19:46:21 UTC
Xython wrote:

Do people actually play 4 miner accounts at once? Lets be honest, at least 3 of those are botted.


If you have the screen real estate, it's not hard to run 4 miners + orca at the same time. One hulk works on ore type #1, one works on ore type #2, one works on ore type #3, the last one works on ore type #4. All of them start with the max-range asteroids and work inwards. Maybe you run one or two with the close-range asteroids then work outwards.

When you get up into that range, you're making 30-45M per hour, comparable to L4 missions. Not much different from dual-boxing 2 mission runner ships with a Noctis alt trailing behind on a 3rd client.

Multiple-screens attached to the same PC, plus a tool like Synergy that lets you use the same keyboard/mouse across multiple clients at the same time. (Synergy lets you move the mouse off the edge of the screen and onto the other screen at which point mouse/keyboard input goes to the other machine.)

With (4) screens and at least 2 machines, you could easy run probably as many as 8 clients at the same time, maybe as many as 12 clients for ice mining. And none of them would be botted.
Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2011-10-31 21:28:08 UTC
Xython wrote:


Do people actually play 4 miner accounts at once? Lets be honest, at least 3 of those are botted.


Cowpoo (BS). 4 miners 1 orca with gang links and 1 orca who hauls. While I mine with them AT THE KEYBOARD. I sort my planets out or chat with my corpies while I do it. A Hulk fills pretty quick when its set for max yeild and not max cargo. Max cargo set-up is a sure sign of bots and even I gank them.

Xython wrote:


There was a guy that got ganked and scammed by goons recently, he mentioned he has TWENTY ONE miners he runs at the same time.


If its the same guy I'm thinking of then he runs 21 Drakes as well. He runs 21 accounts because he wants to not because he needs to

Xython wrote:


If an element of the game is so boring that you can literally do it 21 times over at the same time without any interaction, then it needs to be fiddled with. Period.


As said before, it's nothing to do with boredom, I do it because I want to.

I mine 1 or 2 days a week and I use those minerals to manufacture with and at the end of the day with the end price of the product I make I can make twice as much with those minerals as I could have selling them on the market.

Minerals mined yourself are not free..... Blink

The rest of the time I pew pew for the state.