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A nerf to the Warp Core Stabilizers
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#21 - 2013-03-31 16:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
DataRunner Attor wrote:



Oh so then it also my fault for being a not so easy kill by fitting warp stabs and warping away when I see someone that I know I can't beat =)

This is laughable. Welcome to PVP in eve mate, where if someone can predict a hostile actions, then they will either win, or successfully get away, if they successfully got away, then maybe you are doing something wrong, don't choo think?


you are very naive if you think it would help you. All it would do is to lead to more of your tears about "easy kills" and unfair eve. Since you would not die to an instant locker and a cruiser, you would die to five instant locker tornados, whichdon't giving a **** about your warp core staps. Thats my whole point. A buff to WCS would simply lead to more easy kills and even more tears. Pvp would only work with alpha or numbers. If this is what you want i am sorry.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-03-31 17:35:51 UTC
I agree with Call Rollard, industrial ships should not have any armor, shields, or be able to cloak. This would effectively counter the big industrial problem in eve. Also, Freighters should have industrial-ship hull amounts, so we can solo gank them in a brutix.
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-03-31 18:15:55 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:



Oh so then it also my fault for being a not so easy kill by fitting warp stabs and warping away when I see someone that I know I can't beat =)

This is laughable. Welcome to PVP in eve mate, where if someone can predict a hostile actions, then they will either win, or successfully get away, if they successfully got away, then maybe you are doing something wrong, don't choo think?


you are very naive if you think it would help you. All it would do is to lead to more of your tears about "easy kills" and unfair eve. Since you would not die to an instant locker and a cruiser, you would die to five instant locker tornados, whichdon't giving a **** about your warp core staps. Thats my whole point. A buff to WCS would simply lead to more easy kills and even more tears. Pvp would only work with alpha or numbers. If this is what you want i am sorry.



I've been doing quite a bit of fly time myself. I have lost ships that cost in the hundred millions, I never shed a tear, you know why? Cause I don't fly what I can't buy again. In my time of flying I have seen many things, this includes some of the more famous buffer tanks. These tankers normally don't care much about your alpha damage, and they are not fit for combat, they warp stab the **** out of their systems, and buffer tank the **** out their systems cause they know that if that first volly doesn't kill them, then you will be spending quite some time for your cycle to start anew.

In my unprofessional opinion I would love to see a buff to warp core stabs because as I've said I've done quite abit of flying, I never said that the buff had to be giving +2 instead of just +1 warp stabilization, what I said is it would be nice to see a buff for things when it comes to Bubbles for example. However you yourself freak out, and taking your narrow, limited mind view say. "OOOOHHH, he must of got caught and died, so he here to rage an cry about how weak warp core stabs are." I will say this, I have died before, and all my deaths I can trace back to what I MYSELF did wrong, example, not taking the time to actually set up a good warp in point, or not scouting before using that gate. Maybe you should get off your high horse and take a look around.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#24 - 2013-03-31 23:27:06 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
stuff


i have no clue what you are talking about anymore.

I make it easy for you:
gatecamps; what will happen if people won't be able to point targets anymore? Right, they alpha them, warpstabs included. You just transformed one kind of easy kills to an other.

you can fill your low slots with warp stabs and have fun but stabs should not be on combat ships, since if you fight you commit to a fight. Thats how its balanced and why you have those penalties.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#25 - 2013-04-01 00:37:09 UTC
Personally, I found that a 1400mm fit Tornado is a good counter to frigates fitted with WCSs.

Friends
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#26 - 2013-04-01 00:37:18 UTC
Oh! Another "WHAAA CAREBEARS DONT POP FAST ENOUGH!!!" thread! Precious!

/me relocating tear harvesters closer to the point.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#27 - 2013-04-01 00:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Warp core stabs were originally nerfed because people abused sniper battleships. Warp in at 100... take a few shots... then warp away as soon as the first frigate reaches them at that distance.

As far as WCS creating "better" PVP fits or more interesting tactics... it won't work out that way. All it will do is...

- encourage people to fit multiple warp disrupters/scramblers...
--- which will almost mandate the use of ships with mid slots to spare (especially for solo work).
--- which will put shield tanking ships at a disadvantage versus some armor tanking ships.

- use more fast tackle than before.

- mandate the use of Heavy Interdictors to catch ships.

- require a gang/fleet to use alpha/gank tactics (more so than now) if the tackle or HICs cannot be scrounged up.


Warp Core Stabs are at a good place right now. They sufficiently nerf a ship's combat capabilities while allowing it to do whatever non combat role it wishes (because really... if you are fitting WCS to your ship you are not looking for combat... you are looking to avoid it).

How did you Veterans start?
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-04-01 19:32:51 UTC
What I mean with low sec PVP. Now if you want to tackle a navy comet for example, you need at least 4 frigs with points on them.

Or 3 frigates with scramblers on them.

0.0 bubbles dont allow warp core stabs to work at all.

Scripted HIC's seem to be the only way you can catch ships in low sec now.

The thing is, warpcore stabs are killing solo/very small gang PVP in low sec like this. People go to a PVP zone only to stick warp core stabs on their frigates/dessies to avoid any PVP.
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-04-01 19:39:05 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
I agree with Call Rollard, industrial ships should not have any armor, shields, or be able to cloak. This would effectively counter the big industrial problem in eve. Also, Freighters should have industrial-ship hull amounts, so we can solo gank them in a brutix.


I never said about industrial ships having no armor or anything :P read what I said again.

Industrial ships should have a CPU bonus to warp core stab uses and Warp core stabs should have more CPU requirments.

I killed a Slicer recently which was apparently AFK only to find the ship had two warp core stabs on the low slot and hardly anything else.
So the slicer would have warped away if it was not AFK.

The Slicer was only one of many ships I managed to actually blow up.

Another fight I had was against a Navy comet and an incursus, I scrammed him, fighted him and when he went into hull he just warped away, I went onto the incursus scrammed him and the incursus just warped before I was able to deal damage onto him. Ugh

Warp core stabbed frigs/dessies/cruisers are causing a massive problem for low sec PVP because I can hardly kill anything there anymore solo/or in a small gang.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#30 - 2013-04-01 19:40:50 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:
What I mean with low sec PVP. Now if you want to tackle a navy comet for example, you need at least 4 frigs with points on them.

Or 3 frigates with scramblers on them.

0.0 bubbles dont allow warp core stabs to work at all.

Scripted HIC's seem to be the only way you can catch ships in low sec now.

The thing is, warpcore stabs are killing solo/very small gang PVP in low sec like this. People go to a PVP zone only to stick warp core stabs on their frigates/dessies to avoid any PVP.

A Navy Comet with four warp core stabilizers? Well, if he is that eager to avoid combat at any cost, let him be.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#31 - 2013-04-01 19:44:30 UTC
Allow interdiction bubbles in Lowsec. Problem solved.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#32 - 2013-04-01 19:45:08 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:
What I mean with low sec PVP. Now if you want to tackle a navy comet for example, you need at least 4 frigs with points on them.

Or 3 frigates with scramblers on them.

0.0 bubbles dont allow warp core stabs to work at all.

Scripted HIC's seem to be the only way you can catch ships in low sec now.

The thing is, warpcore stabs are killing solo/very small gang PVP in low sec like this. People go to a PVP zone only to stick warp core stabs on their frigates/dessies to avoid any PVP.

Here is something you need to understand, that you seem to be missing.

The hunters cannot afford to be too successful.

Unlike in a natural ecosystem, killing the target does not necessarily result in a loss to the system. The player simply loses a ship, and has the ability to reship and resume. (assuming they have the means and the desire to do so)

The problem is, however, that the player must still believe they will not be stopped, or otherwise lose, before achieving the goal they intend. The more often they do get stopped, the more likely they will stop doing whatever risky activity resulted in this.

If the better players are avoiding you, but you still catch the clumsy or the less prepared, your game might be sustainable.
If you start reliably catching the better players, and others do as well, it won't be too long before they try something different.

Noone plays a game they cannot win.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-04-01 19:48:21 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Call Rollard wrote:
What I mean with low sec PVP. Now if you want to tackle a navy comet for example, you need at least 4 frigs with points on them.

Or 3 frigates with scramblers on them.

0.0 bubbles dont allow warp core stabs to work at all.

Scripted HIC's seem to be the only way you can catch ships in low sec now.

The thing is, warpcore stabs are killing solo/very small gang PVP in low sec like this. People go to a PVP zone only to stick warp core stabs on their frigates/dessies to avoid any PVP.

A Navy Comet with four warp core stabilizers? Well, if he is that eager to avoid combat at any cost, let him be.


So do lots of people flying navy comets in FW space.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#34 - 2013-04-01 20:06:21 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
A Navy Comet with four warp core stabilizers? Well, if he is that eager to avoid combat at any cost, let him be.


So do lots of people flying navy comets in FW space.

Besides not being there to be shot at in the first place, how do they beat you and stay alive without using these stabs?

This method needs to be more desirable than not being there, in order to be chosen by the pilots you want to hunt.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#35 - 2013-04-01 20:37:44 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Call Rollard wrote:
What I mean with low sec PVP. Now if you want to tackle a navy comet for example, you need at least 4 frigs with points on them.

Or 3 frigates with scramblers on them.

0.0 bubbles dont allow warp core stabs to work at all.

Scripted HIC's seem to be the only way you can catch ships in low sec now.

The thing is, warpcore stabs are killing solo/very small gang PVP in low sec like this. People go to a PVP zone only to stick warp core stabs on their frigates/dessies to avoid any PVP.

A Navy Comet with four warp core stabilizers? Well, if he is that eager to avoid combat at any cost, let him be.


So do lots of people flying navy comets in FW space.

With four warp core stabilizers, a person with otherwise perfect skills in a Navy Comet has a targeting range of 10.9km and requires over 10 seconds to lock onto a standard frigate. Further more, warp core stabilizers are actually pretty CPU intensive, and use at the least 24 CPU each (Tech 2 warp core stabilizers use 35 CPU each). Considering that four of them would 96 CPU, which is more than half of the Navy Comet's CPU (base CPU +25% for Electronics V), and most medium slot items use a large amount of CPU as well, they would be so bad at PVP for their cost that they should no longer be considered a PVP ship.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-04-02 00:01:47 UTC
Woah, a "nerf WCS" thread.

It's like I've stepped back to ~2006.
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-04-02 03:35:37 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Call Rollard wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Call Rollard wrote:
What I mean with low sec PVP. Now if you want to tackle a navy comet for example, you need at least 4 frigs with points on them.

Or 3 frigates with scramblers on them.

0.0 bubbles dont allow warp core stabs to work at all.

Scripted HIC's seem to be the only way you can catch ships in low sec now.

The thing is, warpcore stabs are killing solo/very small gang PVP in low sec like this. People go to a PVP zone only to stick warp core stabs on their frigates/dessies to avoid any PVP.

A Navy Comet with four warp core stabilizers? Well, if he is that eager to avoid combat at any cost, let him be.


So do lots of people flying navy comets in FW space.

With four warp core stabilizers, a person with otherwise perfect skills in a Navy Comet has a targeting range of 10.9km and requires over 10 seconds to lock onto a standard frigate. Further more, warp core stabilizers are actually pretty CPU intensive, and use at the least 24 CPU each (Tech 2 warp core stabilizers use 35 CPU each). Considering that four of them would 96 CPU, which is more than half of the Navy Comet's CPU (base CPU +25% for Electronics V), and most medium slot items use a large amount of CPU as well, they would be so bad at PVP for their cost that they should no longer be considered a PVP ship.


If people PVP and get into a fight and lose, they have lose their ship its simple.

Having warp core stabs is escaping a fight you lose.

I've seen people trying to fight, only to find they are losing and warp away being scrammed by a gang and just warp away in hull.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-04-02 04:45:31 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:
The thing is, warpcore stabs are killing solo/very small gang PVP in low sec like this. People go to a PVP zone only to stick warp core stabs on their frigates/dessies to avoid any PVP.



No, they are doing pve for the night and looking for an out if pvp comes out. It be the same as if heading out in 0.0 (yet another pvp centric area of the game) in a ratter aligned to a safe pos seconds after landing on a belt/in a plex room all night long. Or the carrier with the ohh crap, gtfo now cyno frig on standby for when local picks up non blues.

Part of pvp is knowing when not to fight. Pvp'ing in a pve ship usually a textbook case of this. Dying like a muppet when various things are in place to avoid lost causes is not pvp...its being an idiot. Especially when out pve'ing for the night., Already at a fit disadvantage. The tank probably is rat/npc spec'd....2 resists should be real high, 2 should be real low. Smart attacker if possible ofc runs ammo for the latter.

Want the person trying to avoid pvp, gonna have to work harder for the kill. May as well get used to this, hunting down pve'rs in wh's and 0.0 has its own pita factors involved as well.
Sen Fey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-04-02 09:05:51 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:
[quote=Arronicus]The Slicer was only one of many ships I managed to actually blow up.


With so many Kills you say you've done, obviously WCS aren't killing PvP in Lowsec as you stated in the post just before.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-04-02 13:48:05 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:
This ruins PVP in low sec because you can never find anything to kill which is not using warp core stabs



What really ruins low sec pvp is how inhabitants react at the single vision of neutrals in local, not warp core stabilizers that are one of the very few tools players can use to actually go there and do something.

You guys make low sec the wasteland it is, you get what you deserve, don't blaim modules for your behavior.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne