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Scorpion and passive shield question

Author
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#1 - 2013-03-30 21:41:37 UTC
Hi guys,
Now i'm having a typhoon fleet issue which I love but I want to change it and go for a scorpion navy issue.So I' am making a fit in EFT
which says uniform damage with no fields running 116291 167ehp/s.That means my scorpion regenerates 167 per second with passive tanking?When I activate the fields it goes to 497984 567ehp/s.Don't understand those numbers and will it be good for level 4 missions/

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!

Heinrich Hoss
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-03-30 23:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Hoss
116291 and 497984 is how much damage your ship can take in total (not taking into account your regen or logi or anything like that). It's a combination of your health and resists. If you have 100,000 raw health and 75% resists, your EHP will be 400,000.

The EHP/s is basically how much DPS someone needs to do to you to break your passive shield tank at it's peak. If you have a 100 HP/s regen and 75% resists, your EHP/s would be 400. Combination of regen and resists.


Usually when the word "effective" is used along with health and fittings and stuff like that, it means you take damage reduction in to account. In this game, only the resists.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-03-31 00:57:13 UTC
Passive Navy Scorp does not work for L4. Feel free to find that out on your own.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-03-31 06:04:29 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Passive Navy Scorp does not work for L4. Feel free to find that out on your own.


This. Navy Scorpion has a ton of medium slots and is a tanking monster when set up correctly. I used to run L4s with low SP in a SNI and came out without a scratch every time. Active tank it. If you fit a passive tank, you're just setting yourself up for a huge loss.

Below is the fit I used. It has x4 active hardeners that should be swapped out for mission-specific resists. This is the heart of this setup. The nice thing is, there's a lot of versatility here:
- Fit x2 Adaptive Invuln Fields, x1 EM, x1 Therm hardeners for a good omni tank
- Fit x2 main damage resist, x1 secondardy, and have room for an Afterburner for those long gate missions
- Other options if you're running w/ a fleet

The rigs are set up to maximize damage against smaller/faster ships. With the SNI bonus to shield resists, this setup has a tremendous tank potential. While DPS is lower than a Raven Navy, you won't ever have to warp out because you're taking too much damage. Guaranteed.

[Scorpion Navy Issue, L4 PvE Missions]

6x Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor I

Target Painter II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I (Cap Booster 200)
2x Thermic Dissipation Field II
2x EM Ward Field II

Shield Boost Amplifier II

3x Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I

5x Hammerhead II
5x Hobgoblin II

16x Cap Booster 200

.

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#5 - 2013-03-31 12:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: John Ratcliffe
SNI fit for Lvl 4s should focus on gank over tank. Mine looks like this:

Low:

BCU
BCU
BCU
BCU

Med:

Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amp
Mission Specific Resist
Mission Specific Resist
Target Painter
Target Painter
100MN AB
Cap Booster

High:

CM Launcher
CM Launcher
CM Launcher
CM Launcher
CM Launcher
CM Launcher
Drone Link or Tractor

Rigs:

T1 Flare
T2 Rigor
T2 Rigor

This is what I use, it's supremely flexible and it works. What colour the Mods are is obviously up to your own pocket, but this fit makes an SNI do more applied damage than a CNR*, while having more tank and better flexibility. Don't need the AB for a mission? Swap it out for a 3rd TP or Resist.


* On sub-BS hulls.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#6 - 2013-03-31 12:56:57 UTC
Ok thank you guys what about this?

Scorpion navy issue
LOWS
2 x ballistic control II
Shield power relay II
Damage control II

MEDS
5 X large shield extenders II
3 x pithum c-type adaptive invulnerabilty field(when i have the money lol)

HIGHS
6 X CRUISE MISSILE II

rigs
2 X Large core field extender II
1 x large core field puirger I

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#7 - 2013-03-31 12:59:57 UTC
Egravant Alduin wrote:
Ok thank you guys what about this?

Scorpion navy issue
LOWS
2 x ballistic control II
Shield power relay II
Damage control II

MEDS
5 X large shield extenders II
3 x pithum c-type adaptive invulnerabilty field(when i have the money lol)

HIGHS
6 X CRUISE MISSILE II

rigs
2 X Large core field extender II
1 x large core field puirger I



No offence intended, but that's crap. You want to tank the mobs to death?!

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Storm Novah
Yada Industries
#8 - 2013-03-31 13:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Storm Novah
Egravant Alduin wrote:
Ok thank you guys what about this?

Scorpion navy issue
LOWS
2 x ballistic control II
Shield power relay II
Damage control II

MEDS
5 X large shield extenders II
3 x pithum c-type adaptive invulnerabilty field(when i have the money lol)

HIGHS
6 X CRUISE MISSILE II

rigs
2 X Large core field extender II
1 x large core field puirger I


This is still a passive tank. An active tank drops the extenders and uses boosters, boost amps and active shield hardeners to build its tank and its rigs are usually fitted with Large Capacitor Control Circuits for achieving cap stability and maybe a Large Rigor Catalyst to improve damage projection against smaller ships.
There are only a couple of decent ships that are good for passive shield tanking. Most are designed with active shield tanking in mind. SNI is meant to be an active tanked ship. If you really want to fit a passive shield tank then you need to check out the Rattlesnake. But before you do make sure you have awesome drone skills and can use sentry drones preferably T2 sentries.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-03-31 16:05:15 UTC
Egravant Alduin wrote:
Ok thank you guys what about this?

Scorpion navy issue
LOWS
2 x ballistic control II
Shield power relay II
Damage control II

MEDS
5 X large shield extenders II
3 x pithum c-type adaptive invulnerabilty field(when i have the money lol)

HIGHS
6 X CRUISE MISSILE II

rigs
2 X Large core field extender II
1 x large core field puirger I


Nice troll.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#10 - 2013-03-31 16:29:18 UTC
So you all agree that active tanking is better than passive tanking.MMmm might do this then.

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-03-31 16:45:42 UTC
Egravant Alduin wrote:
So you all agree that active tanking is better than passive tanking.MMmm might do this then.

The rest of us already tried passive tanks, they don't work. The biggest problem for passive tank are the Gurista bs rats, they keep hitting you with their missiles out to 200 or 250km. They will bring your shield down, no matter how big a passive tank you fit. The only way to survive them is to kill those bs rats.

The other rats are not so bad. You can probably do fine against them with your passive tank.

Since you don't have the experience, you don't understand what we tell you. So just go and do some missions with your fit. I am sure it will work against Sansha and Serpentis and Angels, but don't be surprised if you have to warp out in Gurista missions.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Ayame Tao
#12 - 2013-03-31 16:48:20 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
SNI fit for Lvl 4s should focus on gank over tank. Mine looks like this:

Low:

BCU
BCU
BCU
BCU

Med:

Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amp
Mission Specific Resist
Mission Specific Resist
Target Painter
Target Painter
100MN AB
Cap Booster

High:

CM Launcher
CM Launcher
CM Launcher
CM Launcher
CM Launcher
CM Launcher
Drone Link or Tractor

Rigs:

T1 Flare
T2 Rigor
T2 Rigor

This is what I use, it's supremely flexible and it works. What colour the Mods are is obviously up to your own pocket, but this fit makes an SNI do more applied damage than a CNR*, while having more tank and better flexibility. Don't need the AB for a mission? Swap it out for a 3rd TP or Resist.


* On sub-BS hulls.


Similar to mine, but I swapped out the Cap Booster for a Cap Recharger II

Interestingly, I have flown it with and without target painters and don't notice that much difference. With Rigor and Flare rigs, it hits cruisers just fine and the TP doesn't add much damage in my experience.

Maybe that's because I prefer to fight from long range and the TPs are in deep falloff so aren't adding much sig bloom to targets, I'd put a Shield Extender in there and keep a utility mid slot to swap out depending on mood or mission. Drone Speed Amplifier, extra Shield Extender or Hardener for more tank, or a TP for Angel missions where targets are close and fast. I've even had some good success fitting a web to help drones nail orbiting frigates faster.

Thoughts from fellow SNI pilots? (I much prefer it to the Navy Raven. I don't think I'll change it until I fancy running Pirate Faction ships or Marauders)
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#13 - 2013-03-31 16:55:50 UTC
Thoughts from fellow SNI pilots? (I much prefer it to the Navy Raven. I don't think I'll change it until I fancy running Pirate Faction ships or Marauders)


Is this true?

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!

Ayame Tao
#14 - 2013-03-31 17:03:29 UTC
Egravant Alduin wrote:
Thoughts from fellow SNI pilots? (I much prefer it to the Navy Raven. I don't think I'll change it until I fancy running Pirate Faction ships or Marauders)


Is this true?


True for me.

The extra missile launcher the Raven gets isn't worth the utility I get from the midslots of the Scorpion.

Having an afterburner makes a big enough difference that the extra time you gain from the extra DPS is more than offset by the times you have to slow-boat to a warp gate or draw full pocket aggro in some missions which overwhelms the Raven's tank (cap-booster Raven set ups suffer less but expend more ISK)

IMO the Navy Scorp is so good, there really isn't anything to upgrade it to that offers a significant performance increase until you can fly a Rattlesnake or cross train gunnery skills for a Mach or Vargur)
Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-03-31 21:33:55 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
No offence intended, but that's crap.


Says the guy who suggests using x4 BCU in the lows?

Everyone knows that a 4th mod is essentially a wasted slot because it only applies about 28% of its bonus. I mean, that's Fittings 101 stuff.

.

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-03-31 21:38:15 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
No offence intended, but that's crap.


Says the guy who suggests using x4 BCU in the lows?

Everyone knows that a 4th mod is essentially a wasted slot because it only applies about 28% of its bonus. I mean, that's Fittings 101 stuff.

I also use 4 bcu on my navy scorp. To be exact, right now: 1x dread gurista bcu, 2x caldari navy bcu, 1x t2 bcu.

4 bcu on navy scorp is very common. The reason we use 4 bcu is because we are not EFT warriors. We run our missions and we see that the only useful thing we can fit in that last low slot is another bcu. We don't need the speed mod, we don't need dc, we don't need shield mod, what else can we fit there, so most of us fit fourth bcu.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-04-01 00:28:56 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
4 bcu on navy scorp is very common. The reason we use 4 bcu is because we are not EFT warriors. We run our missions and we see that the only useful thing we can fit in that last low slot is another bcu. We don't need the speed mod, we don't need dc, we don't need shield mod, what else can we fit there, so most of us fit fourth bcu.


I think you're using the words 'common' and 'most of us' quite liberally here. I don't see too many players intentionally wasting slots, even for PvE ships. Adding a small handful of DPS is not valid use of a slot, no matter how you try to spin it. Sounds like something that would be recommended on the BattleClinic forums.

.

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-04-01 00:39:38 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
4 bcu on navy scorp is very common. The reason we use 4 bcu is because we are not EFT warriors. We run our missions and we see that the only useful thing we can fit in that last low slot is another bcu. We don't need the speed mod, we don't need dc, we don't need shield mod, what else can we fit there, so most of us fit fourth bcu.


I think you're using the words 'common' and 'most of us' quite liberally here. I don't see too many players intentionally wasting slots, even for PvE ships. Adding a small handful of DPS is not valid use of a slot, no matter how you try to spin it. Sounds like something that would be recommended on the BattleClinic forums.

You have your opinion. I have my opinion, my opinion adds 40 dps, I am happy with it. Feel free to ignore my opinion.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-04-01 01:10:06 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Feel free to ignore my opinion.


Oh, I have.

My concern is for the OP and everyone else reading this thread. Because when you say that it's common for most people to gimp their ships with bad fits, it's important for them to realize that's not really the case.

.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2013-04-01 01:26:43 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Feel free to ignore my opinion.


Oh, I have.

My concern is for the OP and everyone else reading this thread. Because when you say that it's common for most people to gimp their ships with bad fits, it's important for them to realize that's not really the case.


What else would you suggest in that slot? I'd highly recommend a BCU myself. The tank is already fine, there's nothing in the lows that can help apply damage -- so why not boost raw damage? It's a PvE ship; getting more damage on target is everything.
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