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Trebor Daehdoow for CSM8 - The Proven Performer - http://bit.ly/vote-trebor

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Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#421 - 2013-03-31 17:45:15 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:



All I ask is actual proof, not comments of others saying vote for him.



See? You've decided first hand witnesses are not proof. I provide proof, you just say it doesn't count.

I can't give you proof when you can arbitrarily decide what is and is not proof, because you will simply arbitrarily decide any proof I give doesn't count. When you can say "that doesn't count" to any proof I provide of course I can't provide proof you'll accept.
Frying Doom
#422 - 2013-03-31 17:48:27 UTC
Tcar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

OK so we will ignore the fact that you have no idea that the change to CSM 7 occurred before CSM 7 took office.

How about his performance as vice-chairman? How would you care to explain away the constant broken prosises over town halls? And the fact that some questions took weeks to answer in this very forum? So please explain away the lack of communication by the proven performer.


OK, Two step says, "Hey, my bad. I take responsibility for that," and you ignore it, beating your hollow drum. You are awesome, sir. +1 internets for dedication the troll.

Since Friggs has collected ample evidence of Trebor's overwhelming competency and qualification for the CSM, please what promises were broken? Did anyone promise you a sparkle pony or mustache ride? Can you put them in bullet points? Or are you going to maunder on with specious arguments and broken rhetoric?

Oh, and God forbid a man with a business, family, and responsibilities as stakeholder in the upcoming expansion not answer your forums posts in an expedient manner and to your specifications. What a looser that Trebor is, not to wait with baited breath at the keyboard to be in constant contact with Frying Doom, a forum alt that hasn't had a kill or loss since July 2012.

Frizz and I have to testicular fortitude to post with our f-ing mains. Post with yours. I dare you.

OK so he failed as csm6 secretary as the change occurred before csm 7 and now you are freely saying he could not fulfill the job as vice-secretary due to real life and family reasons

It more looks like to me that he is accepting additional responsibilities and not being able to meet those resposiblities.

As to his competency I have seen evidence of what he has previously done not what he has done in CSM 7, other than the standard endorsements people give the only one of them left.

As I have said I can show where he sells out the game but you can only provide brush offs with no proof that he has done anything other than think of CCPs bottom line.

As to my kill record, what's yours like in comparison? As I am no forum salt, I just stopped pvping for a while, with this character. But that again is the standard brush off so we get distracted for the fact you just said Trevor is unreliable and takes on responsibilities that he cannot handle.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#423 - 2013-03-31 17:50:40 UTC
Friggz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:



All I ask is actual proof, not comments of others saying vote for him.



See? You've decided first hand witnesses are not proof. I provide proof, you just say it doesn't count.

I can't give you proof when you can arbitrarily decide what is and is not proof, because you will simply arbitrarily decide any proof I give doesn't count. When you can say "that doesn't count" to any proof I provide of course I can't provide proof you'll accept.

Can you point to your proof and show me where it says for example Trevor was the creative and driving force Behring for example the NPE that was mentioned earlier? No what a shame, maybe that's why its not proof.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#424 - 2013-03-31 17:54:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Hatori Agrue wrote:
-pssst-

Obvious poetic is obvious.

He is taking you for a ride.

Am I Poetic Stanziel this year?

Tell you its hard to keep up first Issler, then a goon alt and now poetic.Lol

But at least I know why Trevor gets elected. CCP really should start allowing voting in crayon, Trebors numbers will go even higher.

Edit sorry I forgot racist sympathizer as well

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#425 - 2013-03-31 17:55:53 UTC
Friggz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:



All I ask is actual proof, not comments of others saying vote for him.



See? You've decided first hand witnesses are not proof. I provide proof, you just say it doesn't count.

I can't give you proof when you can arbitrarily decide what is and is not proof, because you will simply arbitrarily decide any proof I give doesn't count. When you can say "that doesn't count" to any proof I provide of course I can't provide proof you'll accept.

Proof.

How about part of the minutes from this summit that has just been showing Trevor as the driving force for something other than the removal of non-consetual war decs

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
None ofthe Above
#426 - 2013-03-31 17:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Friggz wrote:
New post because listing Trebor's endorsements and accomplishes is more than I can do in a single post due to character limit.

Now this is where Frying moves the goal posts. Now that I've listed some of what Trebor has accomplished he'll say this does not count and demand I list more.

And he'll just keep doing and doing that and doing that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

This is why most of us haven't bothered to respond in the first place.


Well said and thanks for trying. I wasn't going to bother trying to come up with any sort of comprehensive list, particularly in Trebor's case were that list is so long.

Another point is that a lot of Trebor's work was done on things like the minutes as a team member or under NDA. For that we need to take the CSM7 members' word for it when they say he was a large part of what they did accomplish. But Doom, as usual, sweeps anything aside that doesn't prove his point.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Tcar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#427 - 2013-03-31 17:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tcar
Frying Doom wrote:

So in another words you can claim he came up with a couple of things, of which one he definitely did not. And you cannot show that you just named the work of other people as his.

All I ask is actual proof, not comments of others saying vote for him.

I know him talking about the removal of non-consentual war decs is in the minutes, I can point to work that is his and say there it is. All I ask is the same standard for all the wonderful things you CLIM he is responsible for. After all he calls himself the proven performer and that is all I would like to see is proof, not one dodge after another, on anything other than bland campaign endorsements and generic statements covering his whole CSM carrier.


And have you at any stage covered his failings in communication while vice-chairman.

So how about answers rather than dodges?


There's three years of CSM minutes, blog posts, pod casts, town hall meetings. . . three Fanfests worth of advocacy and influence on behalf of the players. None points out a good observation. Much of what the CSM does is under the NDA and thus, for example Odessey, can't be talked about.

Frying, I'm not going to play your game because you don't want to be convinced, you want attention.

I'd like an answer. To what end are you negatively campaigning against Trebor? Who represents the greatest hope for the players?

Your posts against Trebor are not about politics, they are about you and wanting attention or wanting to be some sort of EVE demigog.

Frying, you are neither Peter Wiggin, nor The Mittani.

So long, and thanks for the forum bumps. . .
Frying Doom
#428 - 2013-03-31 18:00:02 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Friggz wrote:
New post because listing Trebor's endorsements and accomplishes is more than I can do in a single post due to character limit.

Now this is where Frying moves the goal posts. Now that I've listed some of what Trebor has accomplished he'll say this does not count and demand I list more.

And he'll just keep doing and doing that and doing that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

This is why most of us haven't bothered to respond in the first place.


Well said and thanks for trying. I wasn't going to bother trying to come up with any sort of comprehensive list, particularly in Trebor's case were that list is so long.

Another point is that a lot of Trebor's work was done on things like the minutes as a team member or under NDA. For that we need to take the CSM7 member's word for it when they say he was a large part of what they did accomplish. But Doom, as usual, sweeps anything aside that doesn't prove his point.

So in another words I can show evidence of his trying to trash the game but you can show no proof of his actually being the proven performer.

Well I suppose when you can't use facts smoke and mirrors will do right?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#429 - 2013-03-31 18:02:12 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Friggz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:



All I ask is actual proof, not comments of others saying vote for him.



See? You've decided first hand witnesses are not proof. I provide proof, you just say it doesn't count.

I can't give you proof when you can arbitrarily decide what is and is not proof, because you will simply arbitrarily decide any proof I give doesn't count. When you can say "that doesn't count" to any proof I provide of course I can't provide proof you'll accept.

Proof.

How about part of the minutes from this summit that has just been showing Trevor as the driving force for something other than the removal of non-consetual war decs


Because "driving force" is an opinion. Even if I did spent the time to go through the minutes, you'd just decide anything I linked didn't count because Trebor didn't do enough in your opinion. That's the point. You get to decide what does and doesn't count as evidence, thus no evidence I provide will ever be good enough for you. I'm not going to waste my time.

You are painting the target around the bullethole. You decide you don't like Trebor, then set out to find out why you are right. You nitpick every small thing you can find like one wiki page not being updated and ignore all the evidence that contradicts your predetermined position, like the piles of endorsements and accomplishments you claim don't count.

Nothing I say or do is going to convince you because you started with your conclusion.
Tcar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#430 - 2013-03-31 18:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tcar
Frying Doom wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Friggz wrote:
New post because listing Trebor's endorsements and accomplishes is more than I can do in a single post due to character limit.

Now this is where Frying moves the goal posts. Now that I've listed some of what Trebor has accomplished he'll say this does not count and demand I list more.

And he'll just keep doing and doing that and doing that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

This is why most of us haven't bothered to respond in the first place.


Well said and thanks for trying. I wasn't going to bother trying to come up with any sort of comprehensive list, particularly in Trebor's case were that list is so long.

Another point is that a lot of Trebor's work was done on things like the minutes as a team member or under NDA. For that we need to take the CSM7 member's word for it when they say he was a large part of what they did accomplish. But Doom, as usual, sweeps anything aside that doesn't prove his point.

So in another words I can show evidence of his trying to trash the game but you can show no proof of his actually being the proven performer.

Well I suppose when you can't use facts smoke and mirrors will do right?


Bravo Frying, bravo. Are you arguing just to argue or do you have a point?

You have used smoke and mirrors to claim Trebor is trashing the game when in fact no one has worked harder for the last three years to keep CCP from making boneheaded Incarna type decisions again. You have had no evidence because you misrepresent the facts, your argument is specious, and you use poor logic.

Your opinion is not fact. Deal with it.
Frying Doom
#431 - 2013-03-31 18:05:32 UTC
Tcar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

So in another words you can claim he came up with a couple of things, of which one he definitely did not. And you cannot show that you just named the work of other people as his.

All I ask is actual proof, not comments of others saying vote for him.

I know him talking about the removal of non-consentual war decs is in the minutes, I can point to work that is his and say there it is. All I ask is the same standard for all the wonderful things you CLIM he is responsible for. After all he calls himself the proven performer and that is all I would like to see is proof, not one dodge after another, on anything other than bland campaign endorsements and generic statements covering his whole CSM carrier.


And have you at any stage covered his failings in communication while vice-chairman.

So how about answers rather than dodges?


There's three years of CSM minutes, blog posts, pod casts, town hall meetings. . . three Fanfests worth of advocacy and influence on behalf of the players. None points out a good observation. Much of what the CSM does is under the NDA and thus, for example Odessey, can't be talked about.

Frying, I'm not going to play your game because you don't want to be convinced, you want attention.

I'd like an answer. To what end are you negatively campaigning against Trebor?

Your posts against Trebor are not about politics, they are about you and wanting attention or wanting to be some sort of EVE demigog.

Frying, you are neither Peter Wiggin, nor The Mittani.

So long, and thanks for the forum bumps. . .

Actually what I want is a straight answer with a verifiable source as to what Trevor has done during CSM 7 other than trying to destroy the CSM as the voice of the players and help get the voting system changed to something less people will want to use.

And to actually hear what he would like to accomplish for CSM 8 other than he would like to see the integration into CCP continue.

But glad to see we are up to the part where you cannot provide any proof so the insults get worse section.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#432 - 2013-03-31 18:08:41 UTC
Tcar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Friggz wrote:
New post because listing Trebor's endorsements and accomplishes is more than I can do in a single post due to character limit.

Now this is where Frying moves the goal posts. Now that I've listed some of what Trebor has accomplished he'll say this does not count and demand I list more.

And he'll just keep doing and doing that and doing that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

This is why most of us haven't bothered to respond in the first place.


Well said and thanks for trying. I wasn't going to bother trying to come up with any sort of comprehensive list, particularly in Trebor's case were that list is so long.

Another point is that a lot of Trebor's work was done on things like the minutes as a team member or under NDA. For that we need to take the CSM7 member's word for it when they say he was a large part of what they did accomplish. But Doom, as usual, sweeps anything aside that doesn't prove his point.

So in another words I can show evidence of his trying to trash the game but you can show no proof of his actually being the proven performer.

Well I suppose when you can't use facts smoke and mirrors will do right?


Bravo Frying, bravo. Are you arguing just to argue or do you have a point?

You have used smoke and mirrors to claim Trebor is trashing the game when in fact no one has worked harder for the last three years to keep CCP from making boneheaded Incarna type decisions again.

By making the CSM a beta testing tool for CCP and making the players respect the CSM less, as to incarna decisions, while they might be tempted I am sure the millions they have lost in revenue speak a lot clearer than Trebor

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#433 - 2013-03-31 18:11:55 UTC
Friggz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Friggz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:



All I ask is actual proof, not comments of others saying vote for him.



See? You've decided first hand witnesses are not proof. I provide proof, you just say it doesn't count.

I can't give you proof when you can arbitrarily decide what is and is not proof, because you will simply arbitrarily decide any proof I give doesn't count. When you can say "that doesn't count" to any proof I provide of course I can't provide proof you'll accept.

Proof.

How about part of the minutes from this summit that has just been showing Trevor as the driving force for something other than the removal of non-consetual war decs


Because "driving force" is an opinion. Even if I did spent the time to go through the minutes, you'd just decide anything I linked didn't count because Trebor didn't do enough in your opinion. That's the point. You get to decide what does and doesn't count as evidence, thus no evidence I provide will ever be good enough for you. I'm not going to waste my time.

You are painting the target around the bullethole. You decide you don't like Trebor, then set out to find out why you are right. You nitpick every small thing you can find like one wiki page not being updated and ignore all the evidence that contradicts your predetermined position, like the piles of endorsements and accomplishments you claim don't count.

Nothing I say or do is going to convince you because you started with your conclusion.

Is there nowhere in the last minutes you can pull out where trebor led the discussion in anything rather than just agreed except the removal of nonconsentual war decs?

Anything at all? A lunch order where he took the lead maybe?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
None ofthe Above
#434 - 2013-03-31 18:17:53 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

So in another words I can show evidence of his trying to trash the game but you can show no proof of his actually being the proven performer.

Well I suppose when you can't use facts smoke and mirrors will do right?


No of course that's not what I said.

But since I despise intellectual dishonesty I won't be spending much time and effort debating you.

Fortunately, in a battle of wits you put enough holes in yourself that I hardly need to make much effort.

TTFN

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Tcar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#435 - 2013-03-31 18:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tcar
Frying Doom wrote:

Actually what I want is a straight answer with a verifiable source as to what Trevor has done during CSM 7 other than trying to destroy the CSM as the voice of the players and help get the voting system changed to something less people will want to use.

And to actually hear what he would like to accomplish for CSM 8 other than he would like to see the integration into CCP continue.

But glad to see we are up to the part where you cannot provide any proof so the insults get worse section.


I am not linking every item from every blog post, forum post, copies of the past three CSM minutes, or links to pod casts that Trebor has posted, written, or been on. Frying, you are not worth the effort I would hae to go through to produce such a document, as you are the only person in this thread hell bent on tinfoil hattery and pedantry.

You will have to wait for Odessey to see what CSM 7, which you claim has "sold out" to CCP, has done for the community in it's role as a true stakeholder in the development process. NDA for now. Question, if CSM 7 has "sold out" to CCP, what was their price? What gain did they get? CCP is privately held, so you can't claim stock options. Specious arguments and rhetoric as usual.

The change to the voting system has not destroyed the voice of the players. This has been addressed numerous times in many posts with numbers and graphs and stuff. Null blocks can't elect any more than they have in the past. If anything the changes to the election process will bring about organized platforms, party type politics, and election tickets.

Again, you evade my question. Who do you back as opposed to Trebor, since you find him so objectionable?

As for the insults, they are strictly gratis.

Later FD, I am going to eat Easter ham now. Have fun on the forums, combing your neckbeard.
Frying Doom
#436 - 2013-03-31 18:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Tcar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Actually what I want is a straight answer with a verifiable source as to what Trevor has done during CSM 7 other than trying to destroy the CSM as the voice of the players and help get the voting system changed to something less people will want to use.

And to actually hear what he would like to accomplish for CSM 8 other than he would like to see the integration into CCP continue.

But glad to see we are up to the part where you cannot provide any proof so the insults get worse section.


I am not linking every item from every blog post, forum post, copies of the past three CSM minutes, or links to pod casts that Trebor has posted, written, or been on. Frying, you are not worth the effort I would hae to go through to produce such a document, as you are the only person in this thread hell bent on tinfoil hattery and pedantry.

You will have to wait for Odessey to see what CSM 7, which you claim has "sold out" to CCP, has done for the community in it's role as a true stakeholder in the development process. NDA for now. Question, if CSM 7 has "sold out" to CCP, what was their price? What gain did they get? CCP is privately held, so you can't claim stock options. Specious arguments and rhetoric as usual.

The change to the voting system has not destroyed the voice of the players. This has been addressed numerous times in many posts with numbers and graphs and stuff. Null blocks can't elect any more than they have in the past. If anything the changes to the election process will bring about organized platforms, party type politics, and election tickets.

Again, you evade my question. Who do you back as opposed to Trebor, since you find him so objectionable?

As for the insults, they are strictly gratis.

Later FD, I am going to eat Easter ham now. Have fun on the forums, combing your neckbeard.

He has already said they ignored 50% of what the CSM wanted

But I will make it easy, how about one quote from the minutes showing Trevor pushing for something. Himself pushing not just agreeing with another CSMs idea.

Yes I can't stand what CSM7 has done to the Csm elections and there is already talk from the candidates that it stinks and will have to be changed. But all I want is proof that Trevor did something himself. Just one thing. Just one quote from the minutes not out of context.

Just one.

Happy easter

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#437 - 2013-03-31 18:27:35 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

So in another words I can show evidence of his trying to trash the game but you can show no proof of his actually being the proven performer.

Well I suppose when you can't use facts smoke and mirrors will do right?


No of course that's not what I said.

But since I despise intellectual dishonesty I won't be spending much time and effort debating you.

Fortunately, in a battle of wits you put enough holes in yourself that I hardly need to make much effort.

TTFN

So not even one quote showing something Trevor has accomplished him self?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
None ofthe Above
#438 - 2013-03-31 18:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Frying Doom wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

So in another words I can show evidence of his trying to trash the game but you can show no proof of his actually being the proven performer.

Well I suppose when you can't use facts smoke and mirrors will do right?


No of course that's not what I said.

But since I despise intellectual dishonesty I won't be spending much time and effort debating you.

Fortunately, in a battle of wits you put enough holes in yourself that I hardly need to make much effort.

TTFN

So not even one quote showing something Trevor has accomplished him self?


Not sure who this Trevor is, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that you are awkwardly talking about Trebor.

I and others have already provided that far more than one.

If you can't see that, that's your problem.

Or are you now going to harp on us having provided too many examples?

But that's not what you asked for, you asked for a comprehensive list. Not worth the effort for me, who's not a member of Trebor's campaign staff, to provide. Ironically this especially true in this case, because there is so much. But that's part of what people like you do, demand a shifting and unreasonable standard of evidence to disprove their ridiculous accusations.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Tcar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#439 - 2013-03-31 18:45:13 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

So not even one quote showing something Trevor has accomplished him self?



You know, It's amazing that you have to have the last word.

I am going to eat ham, scalloped potatoes, green bean casserole, and pie over at the in-laws.

Since I am too lazy to dig for gems, and too polite to call Trebor, I will post this here off the front page.

Trebor Daehdoow wrote:

Accomplishments during CSMs 5-7

As vice-secretary of CSM 5, secretary of CSM 6, and vice-chairman of CSM 7, I was a primary author and/or editor of almost all CSM Blogs and Summit Reports.

In CSMs 5 and 6, I raised, championed and pushed through significant CSM proposals aimed at benefiting broad groups of EVE players (in particular, User Interface related issues), such as the Removal of Learning Skills, the User Interface - Big Wins, Fan Favorites and Low Hanging Fruit Proposal, the Planetary Interaction Omnibus Proposal, and the Possibly Practical POS Performance Proposal. Elements of many of these proposals have found their way into the game.

I created, developed and managed the concept of Prioritization Crowdsourcing, which was used to poll the players and determine what items on the CSM in-process list should be given the highest priority in negotiations with CCP. When CCP shifted their focus back to Flying-in-Space development in the Fall of 2011, these lists helped determine what got developer time.

Furthermore, I have steadfastly pushed for CCP to deliver on their promise to make CSM a full stakeholder in the development process. I spearheaded the production of CSM 7's Development Strategy document, which influenced the creation of CCP's new development model, and resulted in CSM becoming intimately involved in the Release Planning for new expansions at the earliest stages. Slowly and methodically, I have expanded the ability of the CSM to influence the evolution of the game in directions that reflect the wishes of the community.

Note: My main campaign info page contains a version of this document with extra details.
Bronn Stormborn
The Steelborn
#440 - 2013-03-31 20:23:21 UTC
This thread improved dramatically when I removed all of frying dooms posts.