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Isn't this scamming CCP?
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nubile slave
Advanced Weapon Supplement League
Fraternity.
#1 - 2013-03-31 15:58:16 UTC

Rules for the character bazaar.

All scams involving character transfers are prohibited.


Isn't using throw away alts to manipulate the price considered scamming?

I've been watching the auctions for a few days, and it seems that it's perfectly ok to scam, as long as you aren't too obvious.

Who would pay a billion isk per million skill points? Yet for so called "starter characters and focused holders, it seems people think this is the going rate, and you don't even have to use an alt, you can claim "I received an ingame bid" and it's all good.

So, if scamming is allowed, shouldn't you update the rules so that players aren't surprised when they are scammed?

Personally I'd rather start my own character, rather than be ripped off, but that's just me.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#2 - 2013-03-31 16:01:51 UTC
It's not a scam; if you can't afford it, don't buy it. Buyer beware.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-03-31 16:03:21 UTC
nubile slave wrote:
Personally I'd rather start my own character, rather than be ripped off, but that's just me.


Stop moaning then :/

Dodixie > Hek
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2013-03-31 16:08:32 UTC
nubile slave wrote:

Rules for the character bazaar.

All scams involving character transfers are prohibited.


Isn't using throw away alts to manipulate the price considered scamming?

I've been watching the auctions for a few days, and it seems that it's perfectly ok to scam, as long as you aren't too obvious.

Who would pay a billion isk per million skill points? Yet for so called "starter characters and focused holders, it seems people think this is the going rate, and you don't even have to use an alt, you can claim "I received an ingame bid" and it's all good.

So, if scamming is allowed, shouldn't you update the rules so that players aren't surprised when they are scammed?

Personally I'd rather start my own character, rather than be ripped off, but that's just me.


Market manipulation, perhaps, if you wanted to be really harsh about it, but scamming? No.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#5 - 2013-03-31 16:16:04 UTC
If you wish to complain about market manipulation, please contact your political representative on the Council of Stellar Management 7.


If you can find them.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#6 - 2013-03-31 16:20:57 UTC
nubile slave wrote:


Isn't using throw away alts to manipulate the price considered scamming?



This isn't even within the game, so no.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-31 16:22:48 UTC
how can you scam with prices, just dont buy the toons that are overpriced...
Othran
Route One
#8 - 2013-03-31 16:33:27 UTC
OP is quite right and its blatantly obvious that some groups of bidding characters belong to certain "resellers*" of characters.

It breaks the rules of the forum concerned so that'd be a better place to deal with it than here.

From what I've seen the people who moderate that forum rely heavily on people to report this sort of stuff due to volume of posts.

Character Bazaar is not somewhere you want to "play" unless you've spent a long time lurking.

*someone who takes a messy character, spends 2-3 months tidying up skills and resells for a profit
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#9 - 2013-03-31 16:39:52 UTC
Othran wrote:
OP is quite right and its blatantly obvious that some groups of bidding characters belong to certain "resellers*" of characters.

And? If the bidding gets too hot for your tastes, back out. No one is forcing you to buy a character.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Othran
Route One
#10 - 2013-03-31 16:48:33 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Othran wrote:
OP is quite right and its blatantly obvious that some groups of bidding characters belong to certain "resellers*" of characters.

And? If the bidding gets too hot for your tastes, back out. No one is forcing you to buy a character.


Quite true.

I'm simply pointing out that the OP is correct in his suspicions.

It is a breach of Character Bazaar rules however and if they find out it happened then the iskies will be travelling back the other way.

I assume from both your posts you know more about this particular incident than us?
Generals4
#11 - 2013-03-31 16:49:50 UTC
nubile slave wrote:

Rules for the character bazaar.

All scams involving character transfers are prohibited.


Isn't using throw away alts to manipulate the price considered scamming?

I've been watching the auctions for a few days, and it seems that it's perfectly ok to scam, as long as you aren't too obvious.

Who would pay a billion isk per million skill points? Yet for so called "starter characters and focused holders, it seems people think this is the going rate, and you don't even have to use an alt, you can claim "I received an ingame bid" and it's all good.

So, if scamming is allowed, shouldn't you update the rules so that players aren't surprised when they are scammed?

Personally I'd rather start my own character, rather than be ripped off, but that's just me.


That's not scamming. If you don't want to pay the price the seller wants don't pay it. The seller has nothing to gain from selling his char to his own alt so that kind of tactic can easily backfire if people wouldn't pay too much.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#12 - 2013-03-31 16:52:39 UTC
Othran wrote:
It is a breach of Character Bazaar rules however

How so? Setting a price isn't scamming.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Othran
Route One
#13 - 2013-03-31 16:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Generals4 wrote:
The seller has nothing to gain from selling his char to his own alt so that kind of tactic can easily backfire if people wouldn't pay too much.


I assume you haven't seen how many characters get relisted week after week - supposedly after being sold?

The amusing thing is that if you want to buy a character then all the detail is there in character bazaar already. Who "sold" it, when they "sold" it, who "bought" it, who posted in thread etc etc.

Its VERY easy to work out who is pumping up bids if you use search. Yes you're bound to get some false positives but this isn't rocket science, same dodgy names come up time and again - go find them yourselves, its not hard Blink

As mentioned before - if you give the mods of the forum a nudge then they normally deal with the worst of it quite quickly.
Othran
Route One
#14 - 2013-03-31 17:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Karl Hobb wrote:
Othran wrote:
It is a breach of Character Bazaar rules however

How so? Setting a price isn't scamming.


Using an alt to bid/bump/whatever is - that will get the iskies going back to owner if proved.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-03-31 17:01:13 UTC
I just wondered, in the character bazaar is there any way of actually confirming a character was transferred after the sale. And as on other auction sites, when the auction ends and goes to the highest bidder, then is that a binding contract, or can any party back out at any time?
Obunagawe
#16 - 2013-03-31 17:02:36 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
I just wondered, in the character bazaar is there any way of actually confirming a character was transferred after the sale. And as on other auction sites, when the auction ends and goes to the highest bidder, then is that a binding contract, or can any party back out at any time?


Any party can back out at any time. And there is no way to confirm if the character was transferred for anyone except the involved parties, but that is not a problem as it's not a binding contract anyway.
Othran
Route One
#17 - 2013-03-31 17:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
I just wondered, in the character bazaar is there any way of actually confirming a character was transferred after the sale. And as on other auction sites, when the auction ends and goes to the highest bidder, then is that a binding contract, or can any party back out at any time?



1) No, not unless you are one of the parties involved;

2) You can back out at any time prior to transfer of isk.

Edit - I've never bought characters but I have sold them. Frankly its beyond me why anyone would want to buy a character with significant history but I'm a lot older than most of you so I've probably lost the plot anyway P
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-03-31 17:06:20 UTC
Othran wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
I just wondered, in the character bazaar is there any way of actually confirming a character was transferred after the sale. And as on other auction sites, when the auction ends and goes to the highest bidder, then is that a binding contract, or can any party back out at any time?



1) No, not unless you are one of the parties involved;

2) You can back out at any time prior to transfer of isk.

Edit - I've never bought characters but I have sold them. Frankly its beyond me why anyone would want to buy a character with significant history but I'm a lot older than most of you so I've probably lost the plot anyway P


Ah ok, thanks for the info, and to the other poster for confirming.
Obunagawe
#19 - 2013-03-31 17:07:11 UTC
nubile slave wrote:

Rules for the character bazaar.

All scams involving character transfers are prohibited.


Isn't using throw away alts to manipulate the price considered scamming?

I've been watching the auctions for a few days, and it seems that it's perfectly ok to scam, as long as you aren't too obvious.

Who would pay a billion isk per million skill points? Yet for so called "starter characters and focused holders, it seems people think this is the going rate, and you don't even have to use an alt, you can claim "I received an ingame bid" and it's all good.

So, if scamming is allowed, shouldn't you update the rules so that players aren't surprised when they are scammed?

Personally I'd rather start my own character, rather than be ripped off, but that's just me.


How is it a scam if you don't get the char for a bargain price? It's no worse than when you scream "[Half what he was asking] BUYOUT NOW VALID FOR 1 HOUR ONLINE NOW ISK READY!!!!" at the guy.
Othran
Route One
#20 - 2013-03-31 17:10:50 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Ah ok, thanks for the info, and to the other poster for confirming.


CCP will know of course as it requires two PLEX to transfer the character.

When you transfer a character as seller you will get a receipt (email) from CCP stating that you used 2 x PLEX for character transfer so its all documented.

Easy enough for CCP to see if something dodgy is going on once someone alerts them. Not reasonable to expect them to police all of the character bazaar stuff really.
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