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manufacture and selling with sell orders or instant sells?
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Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
WE FORM BL0B
#1 - 2013-03-31 14:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
whats the math to work out the best way

- either sell manufactured items by selling with sell orders that take time to get filled but give higher margins
- or sell straight to traders for a lower margin but get the profit quicker?

i figure that selling straight away will get your capital free more quickly so better in the long run What?
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#2 - 2013-03-31 14:58:25 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
whats the math to work out the best way

- either sell manufactured items by selling with sell orders that take time to get filled but give higher margins
- or sell straight to traders for a lower margin but get the profit quicker?

i figure that selling straight away will get your capital free more quickly so better in the long run What?



On my manufacturers I use an app called Isk Per Hour, which lets you calculate the profit using either high sell, low buy for both components and end products.

Usually I use sell orders, unless the margin between the two is very low, and then I just sell to a buy order.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#3 - 2013-03-31 16:29:43 UTC
Split your order.
Sell half at retail, and half at wholesale, and see what you think is more important.

I have always like *quick* turn over myself. But that is def not the best profit. It kinda depends on if you need operating capital or not.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#4 - 2013-03-31 23:35:56 UTC
Gut feeling, all the industrialists who have bin doing it for a good while almost always use sell orders but there will be occasions where you have to just ditch onto the buy orders, sometimes.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-04-01 17:06:48 UTC
If you plan on placing sell orders, you might as well trade the item and place buy orders.

The only time I think sell orders are useful is when the buy orders momentarily clear out and drop way too low and you don't want to babysit the market until the come back up so you can sell.
Star Killer14
Core World Imperium
#6 - 2013-04-01 18:02:08 UTC
I use sell orders for the following reasons:

- Most of my profit is in the difference between the buy and sell prices but at least for the items I biuld the buy orders are at least breakeven. Also if you sell only to the buy orders on the market you could drive the price down quickly on some items, I have seen this happen on some of my items but then they are back to normal after a day or two.

- Second the itmes I manufacture are high volume and as such I can quickly get in and out of my positions and I also trade at several different hubs decreasiong the time my sell orders are up.

I have on several occassions sold quantities to buy orders in order to buy a blueprint at a great price. I might have lost some isk to the buy order but I gained most of it back on the deal I got so I considered it worthwhile.

Overall I use sell orders unless I need the isk desperately, the margins are razor thin, or most of the action is at the buy order price in which case I shouldn't really be in it to begin with. But every item is a little different and every player will see the same thing differently so it depends on what you feel would give you the most isk in profit.
Arronicus
Madness Unchained
#7 - 2013-04-02 04:11:20 UTC
Sell orders are better, even when you are happy with the buy orders, unless they are VERY close. If you fill too many buy orders, especially on lower trading volume items, people will think that stock is being dumped, and they will fill sell orders too, effectively crashing the price for some time, based on levels of demand (and supply). Even though you might get say, 1mil per unit, the first time you sold, and be happy with that, one week later, when you went to sell again, the price could be down to something like 5-600k, as the result of a crash. In effect, making it harder on yourself. Not always, of course.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#8 - 2013-04-02 05:27:51 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Sell orders are better, even when you are happy with the buy orders, unless they are VERY close. If you fill too many buy orders, especially on lower trading volume items, people will think that stock is being dumped, and they will fill sell orders too, effectively crashing the price for some time, based on levels of demand (and supply). Even though you might get say, 1mil per unit, the first time you sold, and be happy with that, one week later, when you went to sell again, the price could be down to something like 5-600k, as the result of a crash. In effect, making it harder on yourself. Not always, of course.


Indeed, when it comes to industry, learning how to not shoot yourself in the foot 100% is a major hurdle for the one who wants to put 5B+ isk into their pockets every month from industry alone.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#9 - 2013-04-02 07:15:31 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
whats the math to work out the best way

- either sell manufactured items by selling with sell orders that take time to get filled but give higher margins
- or sell straight to traders for a lower margin but get the profit quicker?

i figure that selling straight away will get your capital free more quickly so better in the long run What?


It's not "math" but "trader feelings". Yes, industrialists (in EvE and not just EvE) that want to have big success have to be traders too.

While the brain and the Isk Per Hour software certainly help, in the end you should get a "feeling" about how various markets work and produce items for when those markets are ripe with profits.

Back in the day, doing so, I managed to keep some 15% profits on measly T1 items (MAPCs) in Dodixie, and I sold a good number of them, while cooking the next T1 item that was "opening up for profit" (medium T1 crystals).

When applied with discipline this ends up working much better than creating stuff whose profit is just the buy vs sell orders spread. The latter in fact, requires less thought but it's basically just about 0.01 ISK trading with self made stock (instead of spending time acquiring it from buy orders) and as such you won't make a killing on it.

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11 of 11
The 11th Hour
Abacus Alliance.
#10 - 2013-04-02 07:28:39 UTC
Love your profile.

At present it seems as if the market is being manipulated by bots and is not viable.

No way to buy or sell fairly as the market is shut down by automated scripts at present it seems.

11 of 11
Premier Sovian
New Sun Ventures
#11 - 2013-04-02 10:26:58 UTC
I'll only fill someone's Buy Order if the volume traded in a day is absolutely tiny and I want the product off my hand. Since I don't make things people don't want everything I make is sold through a Sell Order.

It's an easy mistake to make way more of an item than the market will support, always check the volume traded in a day before you get your factories fired up you don't want to go into a market too strong, it scares everyone else and the price will drop like a rock as people try to offload ahead of you.

I've yet to make something with the margin so tiny that I might as well fill a buy order, but I'd take an easy sell if that was the case. Don't expect it to happen often though.