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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Farmatar: Or why fw is totally broken

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Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-03-29 11:15:21 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:


The genius is that 90% of people running these plexes are cloaky and stabbed and don´t want pvp but simply crazy easy amounts of isk. With doing that they make people who really fight for the warzone feel like idiotic clowns.


So this is just a hurt feelings issue? I can understand your frustration since you've got both the Minmatar and the Gallente farmers in your plexes at the moment. I wouldn't mind personally if they disabled cloaks and warp stabs in plexes, but it'd still be trivial for a farmer to watch dscan and warp out as soon as something lands on grid. But I don't want to be pigeonholed into having to run missions to earn ISK, that's why I left highsec in the first place.

Plenty of fights are still happening, everything else just seems like sour grapes over people earning ISK.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-03-29 11:21:43 UTC
Apelacja wrote:
yea smthing should be done in FW as long as the current mechanism support to much the wining site. however its hard to find a way where farmers and farming macroes wouldnt win. And u cant leave only pvp parts bcs one side can avoid it and then what?

How to force people to fight - it is a good question.


Plexing their staging system is a good start. People care about docking rights. I've got about 600m worth of ships in Nenn at the moment. If the IHub upgrades gave better economic benefits, this would matter even more.
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#43 - 2013-03-29 12:30:41 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Philpip wrote:
Just get rid of plex LP, if you want to farm, farm missions.


Except you can't run missions in proper pvp fits, so this is a non-runner. The genius of FW plexes is that you're farming and waiting for pvp action at the same time.


This is my exact point, farmers don't fight, they cloak or warp off (stabbed). If they won't 'fight' then they are not in the 'war', so their pve (as this is technically what they are doing) should not influence the warzone.

At least for fw missions they will have to think beyond "how to I escape?".

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#44 - 2013-03-29 12:34:48 UTC
Markius TheShed wrote:
Let the hate FLOW your path to the Damar side is almost complete.

Farmers follow the Tiers so we are at Tier 4 and there are less Amarr systems so farmers go to Caldari, Which also shows that it's pointless to blame this faction or that faction, Farmers have no loyalty or affiliation with anyone.



tryd to come up with something better but this is best post iv read in a long time

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#45 - 2013-03-29 13:37:18 UTC
It'd be nice if the button structure locked you up and put an infinite point on you.

Just sayin'.
Ginger Barbarella
#46 - 2013-03-29 15:59:05 UTC
Lin Suizei wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Playing Devil's Advocate, even the farmers are contributing to the war effort, so why all the hate?


Personally, I don't think there's much hate towards the farmers themselves - they've identified a clearly broken system and are exploiting it hard and fast before CCP looks at faction war again (maybe in 2016), as they rightfully should.

Now, if only plex mechanics didn't strongly incentivize sitting 29km from the button with a cloak and stabs.


Personally, I've got no problem with a new mechanic that prevents cloaks from working in plexes. No stabs just means someone is whining about not being able to kill someone that's actually there to participate in the game. To do that is just giving in to the whiners.

I come back to my main suggestion for FW: only allow FW members into plexes. If you have to ambush someone for your thrills and kills, you're doing it wrong. And no, I really don't care who disagrees with me on that idea.

Oh, and to the complete MORON that posted:

Quote:
Farmers have no loyalty or affiliation with anyone.


... you just demonstrated your complete ignorance by making the blanket statement you just did. Good job. You just invalidated any other comments you've ever made. Everyone should OF COURSE play YOUR game, not their own. Obviously.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#47 - 2013-03-29 17:57:14 UTC
Well, need to create ways to keep people from jumping from militia to militia; or make the farming even harder. Maybe Increase the standings gain from plexing, so that they gain ranks and lock themselves out of their opposing factions. Or make it so that players leaving FW cannot immediately jump into another FW until a certain time limit is reached. Say 2 weeks? Maybe more?
Ginger Barbarella
#48 - 2013-03-29 18:14:19 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Well, need to create ways to keep people from jumping from militia to militia; or make the farming even harder. Maybe Increase the standings gain from plexing, so that they gain ranks and lock themselves out of their opposing factions. Or make it so that players leaving FW cannot immediately jump into another FW until a certain time limit is reached. Say 2 weeks? Maybe more?


I'd be fine with that, too... Even go so far as to say you can't hop into another faction without a 6 month (180 day) cool-down period. There is absolutely no reasonable excuse for needing to hop other than farming.

My big problem at this point is that "farmer" is being applied to anyone that plexes or run missions in FW. I know I'm not a farmer (no patience for all that sit-on-my-arse time), but I like taking an FW toon and a neutral booster out there, watching traffic, chatting up others in system, and so on. Just like I don't like sitting on button for hours on end, I also despise roaming for hours on end, running from blobs, and blobbing on single ships with other folks. That's not my idea of fun. "Carebear" is anyone that doesn't peeveepee, and "farmer" is anyone that doesn't peeveepee. That really shows the idiocy that seems to be growing in this game for the last could years.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-03-29 18:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
The only solution I know of, is timer rollback (even when wt cloaks in plex----> timer rollback) and that stabbed ships can´t enter.
The nullbears tbh mostly run missions. Saw enough neutrals in bombers doing missions with fw alts in amarr space when amarr had T3.

And yeah I know that amarr had many many farmers when they had T3. Lots of cloaky plexers everywhere. Really wasn´t proud of it^^
Simply give the faction pvpers a sense to do pvp for their faction. Actually there is almost none.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-03-29 18:25:36 UTC
Are there any actual dedicated FW players? Seriously.

It seems FW is mostly made up of farmers, null alts, and players just looking for a place to pad killboards.

.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-03-29 18:51:58 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
The only solution I know of, is timer rollback (even when wt cloaks in plex----> timer rollback) and that stabbed ships can´t enter.
The nullbears tbh mostly run missions. Saw enough neutrals in bombers doing missions with fw alts in amarr space when amarr had T3.

And yeah I know that amarr had many many farmers when they had T3. Lots of cloaky plexers everywhere. Really wasn´t proud of it^^
Simply give the faction pvpers a sense to do pvp for their faction. Actually there is almost none.


Somebody else already said it, but the "fix" is to fix 0.0 so that we don't have 0.0 alts in FW to make isk. 0.0 should be more profitable than lowsec, which it isn't for the average grunt. This is the root of the problem. Once 0.0 is fixed, all the 0.0 alts should go away which will only leave the highsec alts which isn't a bad thing.

.
Ginger Barbarella
#52 - 2013-03-29 18:52:13 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:
Are there any actual dedicated FW players? Seriously.

It seems FW is mostly made up of farmers, null alts, and players just looking for a place to pad killboards.


I'm not dedicated, no. If I had to break down my playtime across my accounts, I'd say I was 45% industrial (R&D, manufacturing, market), 30% missioning (Caldari, Minnie, & Gallente), and the rest FW. Doing any one thing too long begins to bore me.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-03-29 19:04:07 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:
It'd be nice if the button structure locked you up and put an infinite point on you.

Just sayin'.


Which in practice would mean fleets going around killing any people foolishly trying to soloplex. Which would hurt the actual pvpers who put some ISK into their ships more than the farmers in a T1 frig with nothing but warp stabs and t1 guns.

Picking your fights is what Eve is all about.
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#54 - 2013-03-29 19:34:20 UTC
Grayson Cole wrote:
Are there any actual dedicated FW players? Seriously.

It seems FW is mostly made up of farmers, null alts, and players just looking for a place to pad killboards.
One would argue that killing enemies of the Federation was the most important job as a member of the Gallente militia.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#55 - 2013-03-29 23:47:53 UTC
Maybe CCP needs to create an infinite point mod for interceptors. That way farmers would be limited to only operating in the novices.

Also, I don't think null alts come to FW for the isk, I think the pvp situation in null has gotten tired; and nullies are coming to FW for the fights. Let's face it, HBC/CFC/TEST/PL and all the nullsec alliances have gotten bored with grinding sov mechanics to the point they actually arrange fleet fights. Pretty sad in my opinion.
Lin Suizei
#56 - 2013-03-30 00:56:23 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Maybe CCP needs to create an infinite point mod for interceptors. That way farmers would be limited to only operating in the novices.


Not really - when farmers are already sitting in unfit executioners not even bothering to react to losses, I doubt this will change much. Also, cloaking - can't infnipoint what's not lockable.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#57 - 2013-03-30 01:33:18 UTC
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
Hypocrite.


You are the reason the "hide posts" button was invented.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Pax Thar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2013-03-30 02:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Pax Thar
In fw you can make tons of isk, hunt farmers, fight pvpers, rp... what else do y'all want? It could improve yes, but what we have now is a buffet of things to choose from. Fit to kill farmers and hunt them if it bothers you... want a fight, go out and find one they are everywhere.... want to farm, do it. Someone will be out looking for you. Farmers provide the predators with prey, don't hate the gazelle foe not putting up a fight... just eat it.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#59 - 2013-03-30 03:23:56 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:


Somebody else already said it, but the "fix" is to fix 0.0 so that we don't have 0.0 alts in FW to make isk. 0.0 should be more profitable than lowsec, which it isn't for the average grunt. This is the root of the problem. Once 0.0 is fixed, all the 0.0 alts should go away which will only leave the highsec alts which isn't a bad thing.


Fixing 0.0 only works if you 're-work' low sec and high sec.

Currently FW is proabbly the place that is the easiest casual isk generation of all areas of space.
Far greater than non FW low sec (you can make billions in exploration but that requires lots of effort)
You can grind lvl'4 or incursions but once again effort...
You can do the moon goo thing and stuff out in null but why spend the 'effort'

FW is easy.

Unless the null 'fix' mkaes it way more profitable or easier isk then it won't actually do anyhting about the farmer issue.
All sections of space need balancing.

The FW mechanics would be fine if space was balanced (risk v reward v sec)

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#60 - 2013-03-30 03:25:02 UTC
Pax Thar wrote:
In fw you can make tons of isk, hunt farmers, fight pvpers, rp... what else do y'all want? It could improve yes, but what we have now is a buffet of things to choose from. Fit to kill farmers and hunt them if it bothers you... want a fight, go out and find one they are everywhere.... want to farm, do it. Someone will be out looking for you. Farmers provide the predators with prey, don't hate the gazelle foe not putting up a fight... just eat it.


By far the best attitude to take to FW.

EAT EVERYTHING! Twisted

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.