These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#281 - 2013-03-29 18:02:14 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Sakkar Arenith wrote:
wtf nomen?!

while I appreciate the optimal bonus and more stable cap, how n the hell is it supposed to stand up to a vexor or god forbid an sfi?!

Its an oversized slicer now, that will be tackled in an instant and popped a second after that..

/facepalm


And do we as amarr really need YET ANOTHER scorch platform? How about giving it a 20% per level tracking bonus to beams instead. That way there would be at least one ship that would ever want to fit beams over scorch for a change.


Yes, we do. This is a very needed role that is currently completely unfilled in the game.

-Liang

I'm really looking forward to it myself. And it won't be tackled in an instant. With an MWD and a kite fit it'll be moving as fast as many frigates. It'll be by no means a bad ship, in my opinion. I like the range bonus, and I don't mind having to run a cap booster. I run one on my omen already anyways, and I fit it like I'll fit the new NOmen.

THIS I could agree with, making it a beam platform, it's about time that the amarr got something decent for beams for once!

Beam are already the best tracking LR weapon in game. What would make a good beam platform ? To my knowledge, problem of beam is scorch being too good in the ranges beam could operate.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#282 - 2013-03-29 18:13:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Beam are already the best tracking LR weapon in game. What would make a good beam platform ? To my knowledge, problem of beam is scorch being too good in the ranges beam could operate.


In my view the problem of Scorch is simply too much damage and tracking. If Scorch recieved a damage and tracking nerf (not much) beams with multi freaks would be attractive.

The current TE nerf will actually make Arties more attractive to AC's at the 24km range area.

Failguns still need help but this is mostly due to Hybrid ammo not getting the iteration promised two god damn years ago!
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#283 - 2013-03-29 18:26:34 UTC
Viribus wrote:
Ahahahaha the Omen Navy will actually do less DPS than a regular Omen

I didn't think when Fozzie said it'd be a "big slicer" it would also have slicer damage and slicer tank

Wait, seriously? Mind showing me the numbers for that?
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#284 - 2013-03-29 18:32:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
OMG.
Scythe fleet in comparison to Osprey navy has same dmg potential with missiles plus free choice of dmg type (em thermal exp kin) plus more drones plus a bonused turret plus more speed.
Yep. CCP hates caldari again.
Is there any reason to fly an Osprey Navy if you can have Sythe fleet? I don´t see one.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#285 - 2013-03-29 18:33:08 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Viribus wrote:
Ahahahaha the Omen Navy will actually do less DPS than a regular Omen

I didn't think when Fozzie said it'd be a "big slicer" it would also have slicer damage and slicer tank

Wait, seriously? Mind showing me the numbers for that?


Ignore that, he is bad.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Jon Joringer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2013-03-29 18:35:56 UTC
As with others (and I because I love the ship as it is now), I have to voice my opinion that the Stabber Fleet Issue changes seem bizarre.

First: logically, the changes don't make sense. +Sig, +Shields, -Armor and yet +Mass. I don't agree with the changes, but if they must be, at least change the +Mass to -Mass so it makes sense.

Second: the ship works really well currently. It thrives in a close-range, armor/AB low sig+speed tanking role, out-tracking the competition with its bonus (that also gives it frigate protection due to the lack of utility highs or drones). Why add more mass, reduce armor, add more sig and more shields? It's a bit contradictory to its role.

Third: with the recent cruiser changes, I've found that it's really only capable of brawling with the other cruisers, instead of being more than capable like it once was. I don't mean to say that a navy cruiser should be a 'win' button against T1 cruisers, but it should be a significant leg up. A nerf (however small it is) isn't what the ship needs right now.


I won't comment on the other navy cruisers because I don't fly them. Without real experience in the ship, my opinions would be purely theoretical, which isn't really helpful.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#287 - 2013-03-29 18:41:33 UTC
Deerin wrote:


Your math is wrong. It was 8 effective. Dps nerf is huge. So is the speed boost and range boost. It is no longer the melting machine it was before.

If I were an amarrian I would be complaining about naug. It will have crazy ehp...but that's it. Might make a decent cyno ship.

I think these changes are too bold. Huge power creep danger. You should be careful before applying these changes fozzie

thank you for the correction, and with that, I have to agree that giving it range over the dps loss isn't that much of an advantage, as it's not gaining enough speed and range to compete effectively versus other kite fits.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#288 - 2013-03-29 18:42:58 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Sakkar Arenith wrote:
wtf nomen?!

while I appreciate the optimal bonus and more stable cap, how n the hell is it supposed to stand up to a vexor or god forbid an sfi?!

Its an oversized slicer now, that will be tackled in an instant and popped a second after that..

/facepalm


And do we as amarr really need YET ANOTHER scorch platform? How about giving it a 20% per level tracking bonus to beams instead. That way there would be at least one ship that would ever want to fit beams over scorch for a change.


Yes, we do. This is a very needed role that is currently completely unfilled in the game.

-Liang

I'm really looking forward to it myself. And it won't be tackled in an instant. With an MWD and a kite fit it'll be moving as fast as many frigates. It'll be by no means a bad ship, in my opinion. I like the range bonus, and I don't mind having to run a cap booster. I run one on my omen already anyways, and I fit it like I'll fit the new NOmen.

THIS I could agree with, making it a beam platform, it's about time that the amarr got something decent for beams for once!

Beam are already the best tracking LR weapon in game. What would make a good beam platform ? To my knowledge, problem of beam is scorch being too good in the ranges beam could operate.

Exactly
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#289 - 2013-03-29 18:50:02 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On paper I'm delighted with the NAugeror as proposed, it has some very unique advantages and remains very race specific. We'll have to see how it works out live.

Do you prefer it over the current (not proposed) Navy Omen?

@ Devs, how will these ships be priced in the LP stores? At their original Tier1/Tier2 prices?

Currently it's only role is as a bait ship.

After (depending on how fittings work out) it should have a much wider range of tactics available to it. It will always be a brick, but now it will be a brick with acceptable damage, 2 utility highs, and very light cap usage for it's main weapons system.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#290 - 2013-03-29 18:53:20 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On paper I'm delighted with the NAugeror as proposed, it has some very unique advantages and remains very race specific. We'll have to see how it works out live.

Do you prefer it over the current (not proposed) Navy Omen?

@ Devs, how will these ships be priced in the LP stores? At their original Tier1/Tier2 prices?

Currently it's only role is as a bait ship.

After (depending on how fittings work out) it should have a much wider range of tactics available to it. It will always be a brick, but now it will be a brick with acceptable damage, 2 utility highs, and very light cap usage for it's main weapons system.

Do you prefere it over the current NOmen? Somebody throw me a bone and answer this question. Big smile
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#291 - 2013-03-29 19:01:41 UTC
I am really looking foreward for the new Scythe Fleet Issue.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#292 - 2013-03-29 19:02:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
X Gallentius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On paper I'm delighted with the NAugeror as proposed, it has some very unique advantages and remains very race specific. We'll have to see how it works out live.

Do you prefer it over the current (not proposed) Navy Omen?

@ Devs, how will these ships be priced in the LP stores? At their original Tier1/Tier2 prices?

Currently it's only role is as a bait ship.

After (depending on how fittings work out) it should have a much wider range of tactics available to it. It will always be a brick, but now it will be a brick with acceptable damage, 2 utility highs, and very light cap usage for it's main weapons system.

Do you prefere it over the current NOmen? Somebody throw me a bone and answer this question. Big smile

Doh, sorry, misread your original question. Smile

I personally do prefer it over the proposed NOmen, but that's mostly because I am not a big fan of kiting tactics. I'm really going to have to try the NOmen on the test server before I make up my mind about it in relation to other ships. In the hands of a pilot skilled at kiting I can see it being very effective (especially in groups) but I am a little concerned about it's damage potential and ability to maintain the necessary range window. I think it will be okay, but I'll not commit to that until I test.

The proposed NAugoror compared to our current NOmen? Hmmm, it would be close, but I think I'd put my money on the new NAugoror. If the NOmen gets snagged it would lose, if it stays out of reach it could disengage if it got dicey.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#293 - 2013-03-29 19:10:10 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Beam are already the best tracking LR weapon in game. What would make a good beam platform ? To my knowledge, problem of beam is scorch being too good in the ranges beam could operate.

Exactly


Nah, this isn't so true IMO. Beams are actually quite powerful for kiting on hulls that don't have an optimal bonus (Zealot, now NOmen). It's the same argument for why people should use 650 artillery instead of 425mm ACs.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#294 - 2013-03-29 19:15:10 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Beam are already the best tracking LR weapon in game. What would make a good beam platform ? To my knowledge, problem of beam is scorch being too good in the ranges beam could operate.

Exactly


Nah, this isn't so true IMO. Beams are actually quite powerful for kiting on hulls that don't have an optimal bonus (Zealot, now NOmen). It's the same argument for why people should use 650 artillery instead of 425mm ACs.

-Liang

But that's actually the central theme to the argument, that people don't want to use beams on hulls with range boosts because pulse with scorch perform better.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#295 - 2013-03-29 19:17:46 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
OMG.
Scythe fleet in comparison to Osprey navy has same dmg potential with missiles plus free choice of dmg type (em thermal exp kin) plus more drones plus a bonused turret plus more speed.
Yep. CCP hates caldari again.
Is there any reason to fly an Osprey Navy if you can have Sythe fleet? I don´t see one.


Me too i think the omission of any hybrid caldari navy ships is odd and should be rectified here there is no reason not to when you have 2 ships to pick from.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2013-03-29 19:19:39 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On paper I'm delighted with the NAugeror as proposed, it has some very unique advantages and remains very race specific. We'll have to see how it works out live.

Do you prefer it over the current (not proposed) Navy Omen?

@ Devs, how will these ships be priced in the LP stores? At their original Tier1/Tier2 prices?

Currently it's only role is as a bait ship.

After (depending on how fittings work out) it should have a much wider range of tactics available to it. It will always be a brick, but now it will be a brick with acceptable damage, 2 utility highs, and very light cap usage for it's main weapons system.

Do you prefere it over the current NOmen? Somebody throw me a bone and answer this question. Big smile


The new ANI will looks to be almost the same as the current ONI. It does however, achieve the same tank as a 1600 plate current ONI does with an 800 plate and it's also faster than the current ONI with better cap due to less weapons and utility high slot. Essentially, the ANI is replacing the ONI and the new ONI is bringing a kiting steup to the Amarr line up (as far as I can tell)
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#297 - 2013-03-29 19:23:21 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On paper I'm delighted with the NAugeror as proposed, it has some very unique advantages and remains very race specific. We'll have to see how it works out live.

Do you prefer it over the current (not proposed) Navy Omen?

@ Devs, how will these ships be priced in the LP stores? At their original Tier1/Tier2 prices?

Currently it's only role is as a bait ship.

After (depending on how fittings work out) it should have a much wider range of tactics available to it. It will always be a brick, but now it will be a brick with acceptable damage, 2 utility highs, and very light cap usage for it's main weapons system.

Do you prefere it over the current NOmen? Somebody throw me a bone and answer this question. Big smile


The new ANI will looks to be almost the same as the current ONI. It does however, achieve the same tank as a 1600 plate current ONI does with an 800 plate and it's also faster than the current ONI with better cap due to less weapons and utility high slot. Essentially, the ANI is replacing the ONI and the new ONI is bringing a kiting steup to the Amarr line up (as far as I can tell)

Thank you for that comparison, I had managed to miss it, in which case I withdraw my nonexistant arguments against the change to the NIA since this makes the NIA comparable to the Maller as a brawler... I am however still not liking that the NOmen isn't being stacked up against the Omen as an attack ship but instead being turned into a rather questionable kite platform.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#298 - 2013-03-29 19:41:15 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
OMG.
Scythe fleet in comparison to Osprey navy has same dmg potential with missiles plus free choice of dmg type (em thermal exp kin) plus more drones plus a bonused turret plus more speed.
Yep. CCP hates caldari again.
Is there any reason to fly an Osprey Navy if you can have Sythe fleet? I don´t see one.


Me too i think the omission of any hybrid caldari navy ships is odd and should be rectified here there is no reason not to when you have 2 ships to pick from.


You know, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if the Osprey Navy Issue got the same split weapon treatment as the Scythe did, just with bonuses to Rails "and" missiles damage. It would require a complete rework though.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jacid
Corvix.
Greater Domain Cooperative
#299 - 2013-03-29 19:42:58 UTC
What they did to the Nomen is interesting it will be no longer the poor mans zealot thats to be certain however its now faster then a SFI with better align time, damage projection and the drones add utility. Its a ship you would fly completely different the the current Nomen.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#300 - 2013-03-29 19:44:33 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
OMG.
Scythe fleet in comparison to Osprey navy has same dmg potential with missiles plus free choice of dmg type (em thermal exp kin) plus more drones plus a bonused turret plus more speed.
Yep. CCP hates caldari again.
Is there any reason to fly an Osprey Navy if you can have Sythe fleet? I don´t see one.


Me too i think the omission of any hybrid caldari navy ships is odd and should be rectified here there is no reason not to when you have 2 ships to pick from.


You know, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if the Osprey Navy Issue got the same split weapon treatment as the Scythe did, just with bonuses to Rails "and" missiles damage. It would require a complete rework though.

It's actually something that makes me sad as well despite that personally I don't prefer blasters, that Caldari is receiving so little love for it's blaster boats (and, yes, amarr for it's missile boats despite that I prefer lasers over missiles). These races have a secondary weapon system for a reason I'd always felt that that shouldn't be ignored, but rather taken advantage of.