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Fon Revedhort for CSM 8 - PvP for PvPers and those with a clue

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Author
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#141 - 2013-03-29 13:40:38 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
Terrible person in CSM is better than useless person.


How do you figure?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#142 - 2013-03-29 13:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Dolan
Alright guys, funs over. This thread has gotten out of hand and our ISD team has had to spend half their day repeatedly cleaning it up.

As the guys who runs the CSM elections, along with CCP Xhagen, let me assure you that this is being looked into very seriously. Unfortunately, some guy rose from the dead a long time ago and likes to make people eat chocolate once a year so quite a few people are on vacation here at CCP, and we need quite a few of those people to come to a clear decision.

So here is what we are gonna do. I am going to lock this thread until it has been properly cleaned up (don't worry I can see every post that has ever been deleted and will take them into account when making our decision). When it is clean I will unlock the thread.

Once I unlock this thread, anyone who continues to cross the line will receive divine punishment with the righteous fury of a thousand suns in the form of a ban. If you think your post might even approach the line, then don't post it. Everything that could ever be said on the subject has been said at some point, so I am officially putting this train wreck under martial law until CCP can come to an official decision.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls

CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#143 - 2013-03-29 15:47:48 UTC
I'm unlocking this thread now.

Let me just restate that everyone in this thread should be extra careful to follow the rules on the forums to the letter

My ban hammer is prepped and ready to drop. I understand that many of you have real concerns, and CCP is currently looking into those concerns. However, that does not permit you to break the rules.

Any important information that you have, but which you cannot post without breaking the forum rules, can be sent in a petition to the community team.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#144 - 2013-03-29 15:58:57 UTC
Maybe you'd like to clarify exactly where the line is? Normally it'd be obvious, but since this is a thread involving an openly neo-nazi CSM candidate that hasn't been banned yet, I don't think the line is as clear as you think it is.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Thorien Greenwood
Tactical Tea Baggers
Triumvirate.
#145 - 2013-03-29 16:05:19 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Maybe you'd like to clarify exactly where the line is? Normally it'd be obvious, but since this is a thread involving an openly neo-**** CSM candidate that hasn't been banned yet, I don't think the line is as clear as you think it is.

Seconding this. The candidate has openly expressed his white nationalist views. This is not a case of players doxxing him and trolling him. He integrates his views which I find personally abhorrent into his very campaign. How can you expect us to just ignore them?! It seems incredibly relevant to his position on the CSM

but fair enough. I will move to the other thread to continue to express my deepest disgust.
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#146 - 2013-03-29 16:11:31 UTC
Thorien Greenwood wrote:
He integrates his views which I find personally abhorrent into his very campaign. .


Also if you for some reason need proof of this, watch the video he has linked on his Candidacy page entitled "Fon Revedhort's CSM 7 Candidate pvp movie : Motorization of Disciples".

http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/candidate?id=563980 is his candidacy page.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6Af6R4j0S_U is the direct link to the embedded video

Watch that, and if a few thousand alarm bells don't go off within 15-20 seconds of the video even starting, you might literally be Kaspar Hauser.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#147 - 2013-03-29 16:14:51 UTC
The line is, do not break any of these rules: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules

We understand that this a particularly weird situation, made even more troublesome by the Easter Holiday.

While I understand that asking for patience on this matter is a difficult request, I assure you that I am aware of all the comments made in this thread. What I am not willing to do is allow a thread like this to go out of control over the weekend.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#148 - 2013-03-29 16:18:36 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
The line is, do not break any of these rules: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules



Quote:
6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.

Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges.


So Fon's already banned, right?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#149 - 2013-03-29 16:46:30 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
I find all the outrage about this to be the most egregious of nonsense. Take a look at the EVE culture, and this surprises you? News flash, not all of EVE are trolls saying horrible things to get a rise out of people, some are, in fact, actually racists, homophobic, or sexist. At least FON has the courage to stand behind his views, as awful as they are.

Last year we had the CSM chair endorse cyber-bullying a fellow player into suicide in front of very large audience, and got off with a 1 month ban and kicked off the CSM.

You do not get to be upset about this and then go and continue laughing at racists jokes, or throwing around racists slurs because you think it is funny. There is no sort-of racism, there is just racism. There is no slight bigotry, there is only bigotry, and VAST, VAST amounts of the EVE player base are bigots, and CCP does not care outside the limits of their own legal obligation.
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#150 - 2013-03-29 16:46:47 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
The line is, do not break any of these rules: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules



Quote:
6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.

Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges.


So Fon's already banned, right?


I suggest if you find any instances where Fon has posted hate speech, gender stereotyping, or racim on these forums, you immediately quote him, and report the post. CCP will have to ban him. As long as, you know, you manage to find said posts.

Hm. Quite the conondrum.

Apparently here is a CSM applicant who, according to some, is a racist (etc.), but no proof can be found. So how do they know he's a racist then... What? It's almost as if some people here have an ulterior agenda.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#151 - 2013-03-29 16:48:16 UTC
CCP knows pretty well that accussing someone of doing something is not the same as actually providing hard evidence. People may label me as they please, but their opinion is just that - their own opinion. Hope that helps.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#152 - 2013-03-29 16:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Marian Devers wrote:
I suggest if you find any instances where Fon has posted hate speech, gender stereotyping, or racim on these forums, you immediately quote him, and report the post. CCP will have to ban him. As long as, you know, you manage to find said posts.

Hm. Quite the conondrum.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2807140#post2807140

Bottom of this post, brosef :) I'd link the original but it was purged in one of the many post-deletion waves this thread has seen. Funny how it apparently warranted deletion, is definitely endorsing an openly racist point of view, and yet here's Fon still posting away! Strange, no?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#153 - 2013-03-29 17:00:02 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:

I have no problem with people of any skin color, creed, or nationality who chose to leave behind where they've come from and assimilate to the culture that prevails in the land where I am from.

...


Sums it up pretty nice, actually.

...



Fon seems to be agreeing with ANTI-racism sentiments. Seems to be the exact opposite of racism. Maybe I quoted the wrong part? Help me out here.
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#154 - 2013-03-29 17:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Marian Devers wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:

I have no problem with people of any skin color, creed, or nationality who chose to leave behind where they've come from and assimilate to the culture that prevails in the land where I am from.

...


Sums it up pretty nice, actually.

...



Fon seems to be agreeing with ANTI-racism sentiments. Seems to be the exact opposite of racism. Maybe I quoted the wrong part? Help me out here.


Yeah, you left out


Fon Revedhort wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
I have a problem with people who come to a country, completely alien in culture and creed and assume that because some leftists who have taken their ideology too far they are entitled to the social welfare and services of the community itself. This is nothing but intentional destruction of culture by idiots who have chosen to drink the koolaid of cultural marxism.



Sums it up pretty nice, actually.

We've got our land, they've got theirs. Why lay claims on something neither you nor your grandfathers earned instead of just agreeing to be a mere guest in someone's home?

Sadly, perverts can hardly comprehend such basic things and would rather indeed provoke the universal hatred. Alas.


Context is a ***** when you're wrong, isn't it?

Also looooooooooooooooooooool if you think "I have no problem with foreigners so long as they don't act all foreign" is an anti-racist sentiment.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Sieg oder Valhalla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2013-03-29 17:08:59 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
I have a problem with people who come to a country, completely alien in culture and creed and assume that because some leftists who have taken their ideology too far they are entitled to the social welfare and services of the community itself. This is nothing but intentional destruction of culture by idiots who have chosen to drink the koolaid of cultural marxism.



Sums it up pretty nice, actually.

We've got our land, they've got theirs. Why lay claims on something neither you nor your grandfathers earned instead of just agreeing to be a mere guest in someone's home?

Sadly, perverts can hardly comprehend such basic things and would rather indeed provoke the universal hatred. Alas.


Context is a ***** when you're wrong, isn't it?



Not surprising that a "space communist" somehow finds the idea of borders and community property rights to be some horrible evil.
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#156 - 2013-03-29 17:10:34 UTC
Sieg oder Valhalla wrote:
borders and community property rights.


Sorry, I'm not literally ********, your dogwhistle isn't working.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#157 - 2013-03-29 17:27:50 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Context is a ***** when you're wrong, isn't it?

Also looooooooooooooooooooool if you think "I have no problem with foreigners so long as they don't act all foreign" is an anti-racist sentiment.


Well, It seems like an immigration-issue discussion. Discussing immigration is now racist? Just because it's not anti-racist, it is automatically racist? What? By that logic, talk of tracking enhancers is automatically racist

Fon Revedhort wrote:
We've got our land, they've got theirs. Why lay claims on something neither you nor your grandfathers earned instead of just agreeing to be a mere guest in someone's home?


And I don't see this "foreigners shouldn't act foreign" thing you wrote about, Fon is clearly stating that people shouldn't forget that they came from a different country - not that they should start acting 'Merican if they come to 'Merica!

Do you think that's bad? Should people forget that they originally came from a different country? Should we tell all african-americans to FORGET that they came from Africa, due to slave-trade? In my opinion, things like that should never be forgotten, or forgiven.

So forgive me, I think Fon is right - never forget your origins, or forget your culture.
Rhegulius Nycemius
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#158 - 2013-03-29 17:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhegulius Nycemius
Quote:
So forgive me, I think Fon is right - never forget your origins, or forget your culture.


Does that include never forgetting or forgiving the vile evil that "people" with Fon's views have inflicted, and still inflict, on the rest of humanity?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#159 - 2013-03-29 18:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Marian Devers wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Context is a ***** when you're wrong, isn't it?

Also looooooooooooooooooooool if you think "I have no problem with foreigners so long as they don't act all foreign" is an anti-racist sentiment.


Well, It seems like an immigration-issue discussion. Discussing immigration is now racist? Just because it's not anti-racist, it is automatically racist? What? By that logic, talk of tracking enhancers is automatically racist

Fon Revedhort wrote:
We've got our land, they've got theirs. Why lay claims on something neither you nor your grandfathers earned instead of just agreeing to be a mere guest in someone's home?


And I don't see this "foreigners shouldn't act foreign" thing you wrote about, Fon is clearly stating that people shouldn't forget that they came from a different country - not that they should start acting 'Merican if they come to 'Merica!

Do you think that's bad? Should people forget that they originally came from a different country? Should we tell all african-americans to FORGET that they came from Africa, due to slave-trade? In my opinion, things like that should never be forgotten, or forgiven.

So forgive me, I think Fon is right - never forget your origins, or forget your culture.


To give you the benefit of the doubt, you have missed him quoting David Duke (google him if you dont know who that is) endless 14/88 references, using neo-Nazi music and saying "not all races are equal, some are inferior"

I give you the benefit of the doubt, since CCP have repeatedly deleted all his postings on the issue because they break the forum rules.

Last time I broke the forum rules I got a 2 week ban, so forgive me if a lot of people are confused as to why he is not only not banned from posting, but allowed to seemingly run as a candidate to represent the playerbase, wherein the CSM charter says they need to be an "example to others".

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#160 - 2013-03-29 18:19:13 UTC
Marian Devers wrote:
Do you think that's bad? Should people forget that they originally came from a different country? Should we tell all african-americans to FORGET that they came from Africa, due to slave-trade? In my opinion, things like that should never be forgotten, or forgiven.

So forgive me, I think Fon is right - never forget your origins, or forget your culture.

If the alternative (The one Fon is supporting) is the ***, then yes people everywhere should forget their culture.
Luckily, however, the world isn't black/white, a thing that many people should learn ASAP.

The point about the EVE community being casually racist, mysogonist or homophobic is a valid one in many ways, but at the same time it has certain flaws. First off, of course, is that many people are simply adding expetitives. You don't have to listen to many FCs or alliance/corp leaders on soundcloud to get that. Second is that they're often based on (wrong) stereotypes. When ratters in the large nullsec alliances are called jews, it's because of the stereotype, not because of RL views that jews are less human or even not human.
The problem here is that Fon brought these views directly into debates a year ago when he ran for CSM then. Unprovoked.
He has since reitertated a lot on these views, and continue to list *** leaders or Nazigerman leaders as idols - not on some obscure site, but here on the EVEO forums.
If he brings his views on race etc into his campaign, then he should also endure the heat due to them.

And re: Mittani and last years FanFest. I was glad he was removed from the CSM then, and I would cite it as a reason why Fon should simply not be allowed to run.