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@ Hilmar and Zulu. Care to elaborate?
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The Apostle
Doomheim
#81 - 2011-10-29 21:46:29 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Rocky Deadshot wrote:
holy crap... goons actually caused a flood of tears that got CCP to act.
just Amazing...


We're now working with Helicity for a combined Goonswarm/Hulkageddon event which will make the last few Hulkageddons look like drops in the bucket.

Thank you Mittens. This will do one of two things.

1) CCP will call your bluff and will take measures to secure highsec

OR

2) Fully support your actions and allow it to repeatedly occur.

If it does anything, it will finally inform the playerbase of how strong or weak your supposed influence is.

Once we've worked that out we can all go back to our game and guffaw or emoragequit and you can go back to playing Emperor in whatever emotional state you want to live in.


Why do you suppose those are the only two options? Not doing anything is always an option...

Which is the latter option. Support = acceptance?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#82 - 2011-10-29 22:06:32 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Rocky Deadshot wrote:
holy crap... goons actually caused a flood of tears that got CCP to act.
just Amazing...


We're now working with Helicity for a combined Goonswarm/Hulkageddon event which will make the last few Hulkageddons look like drops in the bucket.

Thank you Mittens. This will do one of two things.

1) CCP will call your bluff and will take measures to secure highsec

OR

2) Fully support your actions and allow it to repeatedly occur.

If it does anything, it will finally inform the playerbase of how strong or weak your supposed influence is.

Once we've worked that out we can all go back to our game and guffaw or emoragequit and you can go back to playing Emperor in whatever emotional state you want to live in.


Why do you suppose those are the only two options? Not doing anything is always an option...

Which is the latter option. Support = acceptance?


No. You said "Fully Support".

But i don't think the current CCP is the same "HTFU" CCP of old. What with the decshield policy change and etc..

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#83 - 2011-10-29 23:16:02 UTC
I don't think CCP should or will intervene just because of tears. At least not unless it is taking a serious bite out of their customer retention, which I doubt it is.

But, that doesn't mean they shouldn't or won't intervene. If ganking is too easy to pull off or too hard to counter, then it needs to be rebalanced just like anything else would be. I haven't done it personally, so I can't say whether it is too easy or not, but people shouldn't just assume that any change that makes it harder to gank must neccesarily mean CCP is just reacting to tears. The whole "cold hard space" thing doesn't mean "ganking needs to be ezmode". Ganking should be a challenging profession. If it isn't, CCP should rebalance it. If it is already challenging and counterable enough, then CCP should leave it be.
Sandviched
Doomheim
#84 - 2011-10-30 10:44:51 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Sandviched wrote:
Hi I'm a 'pirate' I gank cause it's easy and requires no mental though...
please don't make me use my brain...

Ganking is an art.



lol like pirate gate camps?
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#85 - 2011-10-30 13:10:58 UTC
Interesting...

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Amro One
One.
#86 - 2011-10-30 15:54:21 UTC
They are coming out with T2 gang link. Do I need to say more.





Yes as your all stupid, mine with a orca that has T2 ganglink to improve your tank.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#87 - 2011-10-30 16:12:48 UTC
If instead of buffing CONCORD, CCP actually put the effort into finally fixing the humilating joke of a bounty system that hi-sec has labored under, then players could fix their own problems.

But I suppose just trimming a few seconds off CONCORD response time is more ~fearless~

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#88 - 2011-10-30 16:23:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
If instead of buffing CONCORD, CCP actually put the effort into finally fixing the humilating joke of a bounty system that hi-sec has labored under, then players could fix their own problems.


I agreee that would be ideal, but what specifically would you change about the way it works? If you let everybody with a bounty on their heads get attacked in hi sec then the gankers could just put a 1 ISK bounty on every mining barge they saw.
SilentSkills
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2011-10-30 16:25:18 UTC
Vachir Khan wrote:
I figured it out!

Goons are doing this to force CCP's hand, but when CCP asks their Goon overlords on how to do it the answer will be "don't buff concord, buff the icemining ships instead". CCP will then buff the Mackinaws and a while later (after having had yet another "chat" with their overlords) CCP decides to move ice belts to 0.0 and specifically to Goon space. Now goons can bot mackinaws with ease on their Rifter accounts (increased tank needs less SP and isk to tank 0.0 rats).

It's all a plot you see.


holy **** where is my tinfoil hat....
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#90 - 2011-10-30 16:34:25 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
If instead of buffing CONCORD, CCP actually put the effort into finally fixing the humilating joke of a bounty system that hi-sec has labored under, then players could fix their own problems.


I agreee that would be ideal, but what specifically would you change about the way it works? If you let everybody with a bounty on their heads get attacked in hi sec then the gankers could just put a 1 ISK bounty on every mining barge they saw.


Tie the bounty system into contractable killrights, with the payout being limited to a fraction (say 50%) the NPC value of any modules, clone value and implants lost (since we're getting proper pod killmails now).

So say I really **** Mike the Miner off. Mike puts a 250M Bounty on my head, and now bounty hunters chase me! Under the old system, I would just jump to an empty clone and have an alt pod me me to collect 250M. As my clones cost 20M, I stroll off with 230M of Mike's money. Hahaha, stupid miners!

Under the new system, Mike can create an open contract on me if he has killrights, and anyone who accepts the contacts can collect. Mike might chose to limit the contract to people in his corp, in his alliance, to people with good standings or to people who don't have bad standings. The contract lasts as long as his killrights, with uncollected ISK being refunded on expiry ff I manage to avoid being killed enough in the meanwhile.

If I accept with my alt and she pods me, she'll only collect 10M, half the value of my Sigma clone. I lose 10M.

On the other hand if I'm flying around in my Halo clone (NPC implant value = something like 600M ISK, I'd have to look it up), then someone podding me could collect the full 250M bounty. (Or even up to 310M, if my bounty was that high).

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#91 - 2011-10-30 16:37:49 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
If instead of buffing CONCORD, CCP actually put the effort into finally fixing the humilating joke of a bounty system that hi-sec has labored under, then players could fix their own problems.


I agreee that would be ideal, but what specifically would you change about the way it works? If you let everybody with a bounty on their heads get attacked in hi sec then the gankers could just put a 1 ISK bounty on every mining barge they saw.


Not a lot of mining barges in high-sec with negative sec status...

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Razzor Death
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2011-10-30 16:57:38 UTC
I know there are a lot of excited people in this thread and I really don't want to be 'that guy' here but I think its for the best.

You can't buff the stupid.

Sorry
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2011-10-30 17:01:23 UTC
XIRUSPHERE wrote:
Miners have had years to learn that saving their barges is stupidly easy and nearly 100% fool proof but would rather be lazy victims. They don't need more tank, they don't need concord fixes. The pilots need to step up and actually fly the ship.


a tank would add surviveability vs a smartbombing bs and u cannot avoid being ganked by a smartbombing bs... the barge will never warp out in time

your argument is flawed

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2011-10-30 17:58:30 UTC
Vachir Khan wrote:
I figured it out!

Goons are doing this to force CCP's hand, but when CCP asks their Goon overlords on how to do it the answer will be "don't buff concord, buff the icemining ships instead". CCP will then buff the Mackinaws and a while later (after having had yet another "chat" with their overlords) CCP decides to move ice belts to 0.0 and specifically to Goon space. Now goons can bot mackinaws with ease on their Rifter accounts (increased tank needs less SP and isk to tank 0.0 rats).

It's all a plot you see.



I don't think there is enough tin in the universe to make a hat for this.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2011-10-30 18:09:01 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:


Let's be honest, it is currently far to cheap to gank someone. You should need hours of farming or sec statut grinding to recover from a gank.



There needs to be a threat to miners. If players can't be the threat then belt rats need to be. Belt rats below 0.8 sec need to be dangerous enough that you cannot fight them off in an untanked mining barge. This does not mean super dangerous, but they certainly shouldn't be able to be fought off by a team of T1 drones. A tanked hulk should be able to survive, for a while, but the belt rats should escalate to the point where a Hulk cannot tank it either. Also no T2 combat drones in a mining ship, what do you think you are, a combat ship? They should also scramble at some point during escalation. This escalated group should persist for a while to disrupt anyone else's mining activity in that belt for a period of time. All ore above 0.8 and above are substantially reduced to prevent miners from cowering in 1.0-0.8 sec.

Does this seem better? No more of those mean player gankers that only come along every once and a while! Just faceless, emotionless NPCs that won't think twice. But at least they won't get any pleasure out of it!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2011-10-30 18:23:26 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
XIRUSPHERE wrote:
Miners have had years to learn that saving their barges is stupidly easy and nearly 100% fool proof but would rather be lazy victims. They don't need more tank, they don't need concord fixes. The pilots need to step up and actually fly the ship.


a tank would add surviveability vs a smartbombing bs and u cannot avoid being ganked by a smartbombing bs... the barge will never warp out in time

your argument is flawed



Bs warps into belt on top of you and one of two things happen.

1. Miner warps out before the BS even lands because he was smart and kept aligned.

2. Miner was stupid and just sat there.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#97 - 2011-10-30 18:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Teamosil
baltec1 wrote:
1. Miner warps out before the BS even lands because he was smart and kept aligned.


By aligned you mean actually moving towards it so you can insta warp? Or just facing towards it? Because if you mean the former, it would appear you've never actually mined. If you mean the later, it is true that it's a good idea to be facing your warp point, but it only shaves off a second or two from your still very long time to warp. In fact I've heard, but not tested, the theory that what direction your ship is facing is just graphical and the time to warp is the same. But making sure your path is clear so you don't bump into an asteroid on your way out would be wise.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#98 - 2011-10-30 18:40:43 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
1. Miner warps out before the BS even lands because he was smart and kept aligned.


By aligned you mean actually moving towards it so you can insta warp? Or just facing towards it? Because if you mean the former, it would appear you've never actually mined. If you mean the later, it is true that it's a good idea to be facing your warp point, but it only shaves off a secord two from your still very long time to warp.


Use multiple align points?
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#99 - 2011-10-30 19:14:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Use multiple align points?


Yeah that's true. Sometimes there are already objects positioned in such a way that you can bounce back and forth between being aligned to them. But IMO that's a bit much for hi sec mining. The rewards for hi sec mining are absurdly low. Why would anybody bother doing it if it required a bunch of knowledge and attention to do it? It's mostly there for new players to build up enough ISK to buy their first battleship. There needs to be something people can do in eve while they're learning. Everybody was a newbie at some point.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#100 - 2011-10-30 19:41:38 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
The Apostle wrote:


2) Fully support your actions and allow it to repeatedly occur.



Why do you suppose those are the only two options? Not doing anything is always an option...

these two are similar

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.