These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#201 - 2013-03-28 16:25:25 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:




The ScytheFI gets a single bonus to each weapon system... that is a double bonus by default. It gets 2x DPS by way of a 50% reduction in the duration of projectile turrets, giving it 8 effective turrets.

It's really not as bad as people are making it out to be.[/quote]

Its a double bonus in the same way the caracal getting a bonus to kinetic and every other damage type is a quad bonus.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2013-03-28 16:26:59 UTC
Thats not what it says, where the hell do you get this. 50% from... 5x 10%? Thats still doesnt equate to 8 turrets at skill lvl 0 You are bad at math and common sense.

In reality after the currents changes you will see minmatar ship gradually disappear from lowsec. Yes the. SFI does well atm, it used to great, after T1 buff it changed to just well, as it can compete with the popular T1 cruisers where as the regular stabber can't compete, so that made it the cruiser to fly for any minmatar. Now it becomes less agile and has an increased sig, taking away the thing that allowed it to compete versus better armor tanking T1 cruisers, that compared to he weird shield addition and its already poor dps this cruiser will become the new rifter, aka near useless and good at nothing. The scythe willl be like cynabal, except where a cynabal kites this thing will need to brawl to do any dps, which it cant. So it will just die like any cynabal that gets caught.

Basically after this rebalance any minmatar pilot in lowsec will be forced to reskill to another race since no viable competitive cruiser will remain. I don't smind rebalancing but geez think about what ships are to be used for.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#203 - 2013-03-28 16:35:24 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:


The ScytheFI gets a single bonus to each weapon system... that is a double bonus by default. It gets 2x DPS by way of a 50% reduction in the duration of projectile turrets, giving it 8 effective turrets.

It's really not as bad as people are making it out to be.


Its a double bonus in the same way the caracal getting a bonus to kinetic and every other damage type is a quad bonus.


If we're doing it that way, then the ScytheFI gets 8 bonuses in one because it gets the double bonus (10% RoF per level) and that applies to all damage types because Projectiles get ammo for all damage types.

kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Thats not what it says, where the hell do you get this. 50% from... 5x 10%? Thats still doesnt equate to 8 turrets at skill lvl 0 You are bad at math and common sense.

In reality after the currents changes you will see minmatar ship gradually disappear from lowsec. Yes the. SFI does well atm, it used to great, after T1 buff it changed to just well, as it can compete with the popular T1 cruisers where as the regular stabber can't compete, so that made it the cruiser to fly for any minmatar. Now it becomes less agile and has an increased sig, taking away the thing that allowed it to compete versus better armor tanking T1 cruisers, that compared to he weird shield addition and its already poor dps this cruiser will become the new rifter, aka near useless and good at nothing. The scythe willl be like cynabal, except where a cynabal kites this thing will need to brawl to do any dps, which it cant. So it will just die like any cynabal that gets caught.

Basically after this rebalance any minmatar pilot in lowsec will be forced to reskill to another race since no viable competitive cruiser will remain. I don't smind rebalancing but geez think about what ships are to be used for.

Well, it's because 4 turrets with a 50% bonus to rate of fire is equivalent to 4 bonuses firing as fast as 8. yeah. They're shooting twice as fast, because the duration is 1/2. 8 effective guns. It's going to put out a lot of damage, and be fast. It'll be solid. The missile bonus... not quite as good, but still decent.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#204 - 2013-03-28 16:44:54 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Thats not what it says, where the hell do you get this. 50% from... 5x 10%? Thats still doesnt equate to 8 turrets at skill lvl 0 You are bad at math and common sense.

In reality after the currents changes you will see minmatar ship gradually disappear from lowsec. Yes the. SFI does well atm, it used to great, after T1 buff it changed to just well, as it can compete with the popular T1 cruisers where as the regular stabber can't compete, so that made it the cruiser to fly for any minmatar. Now it becomes less agile and has an increased sig, taking away the thing that allowed it to compete versus better armor tanking T1 cruisers, that compared to he weird shield addition and its already poor dps this cruiser will become the new rifter, aka near useless and good at nothing. The scythe willl be like cynabal, except where a cynabal kites this thing will need to brawl to do any dps, which it cant. So it will just die like any cynabal that gets caught.

Basically after this rebalance any minmatar pilot in lowsec will be forced to reskill to another race since no viable competitive cruiser will remain. I don't smind rebalancing but geez think about what ships are to be used for.
It's always funny to see whenever any ship balance changes come out all the people that post with the "sky is falling" mentality. "Nobody is gonna fly X ship (unless you keep it in its current OP state)."

I'm not calling you out specifically; you are in a long line of posters who claim that their FOTM ship is gonna dry up, ironically, by allowing the other ships to gain parity with the "current" OP leader. The real issue is that these posters want to keep their superiority advantage, but that's not a particularly realistic expectation, so they turn to scary language and fear mongering. Everyone claimed HML nerf would make the Drake extinct or that nobody was going to even undock in a Cane without its two utility high slots. But guess what: people still fly these and others post-rebalancing.

Life will go on. Pilots will still find each other. Ships will still explode. This isn't their first rodeo, nor will it be their last.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Flyingleanpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#205 - 2013-03-28 16:45:03 UTC
Here lies Nomen.

Once a glorious weapon of the empire, now reduced to a oversized and overweight slicer. Complications from TE nerf proved fatal. Attempts were made to resuscitate with lower fitting demands, however the DPS loss was too severe to overcome.

kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2013-03-28 16:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: kraiklyn Asatru
Maximus Andendare wrote:
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Thats not what it says, where the hell do you get this. 50% from... 5x 10%? Thats still doesnt equate to 8 turrets at skill lvl 0 You are bad at math and common sense.

In reality after the currents changes you will see minmatar ship gradually disappear from lowsec. Yes the. SFI does well atm, it used to great, after T1 buff it changed to just well, as it can compete with the popular T1 cruisers where as the regular stabber can't compete, so that made it the cruiser to fly for any minmatar. Now it becomes less agile and has an increased sig, taking away the thing that allowed it to compete versus better armor tanking T1 cruisers, that compared to he weird shield addition and its already poor dps this cruiser will become the new rifter, aka near useless and good at nothing. The scythe willl be like cynabal, except where a cynabal kites this thing will need to brawl to do any dps, which it cant. So it will just die like any cynabal that gets caught.

Basically after this rebalance any minmatar pilot in lowsec will be forced to reskill to another race since no viable competitive cruiser will remain. I don't smind rebalancing but geez think about what ships are to be used for.
It's always funny to see whenever any ship balance changes come out all the people that post with the "sky is falling" mentality. "Nobody is gonna fly X ship (unless you keep it in its current OP state)."

I'm not calling you out specifically; you are in a long line of posters who claim that their FOTM ship is gonna dry up, ironically, by allowing the other ships to gain parity with the "current" OP leader. The real issue is that these posters want to keep their superiority advantage, but that's not a particularly realistic expectation, so they turn to scary language and fear mongering. Everyone claimed HML nerf would make the Drake extinct or that nobody was going to even undock in a Cane without its two utility high slots. But guess what: people still fly these and others post-rebalancing.

Life will go on. Pilots will still find each other. Ships will still explode. This isn't their first rodeo, nor will it be their last.



The SFI is already no longer OP, if you fly cruisers you'd know that. It already last that to T1 cruisers that are hakf the price. Just look at the stabber itself, noone flies it. Ships go the way of the dodo when there are other ships that can do the same but better, as an Ahac lite the SFI already has heavy competition. Nerfing it simply isnt needed.

Edit goldsaver where do you find this 50%rate of fire also 4+ 50% (which is 2) would be 6, not 8. While other ships have 10% and 10% something else.
Frost 3
Sub--Zero
#207 - 2013-03-28 17:12:29 UTC
Quote:
Osprey Navy Issue: This one flies much like a Caracal with even better speed and agility, and has the most mids of any offensive-minded cruiser, giving options for tank or utility. The comparison with the Hookbill is intentional.
Cruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Kinetic missile damage, 5% to Explosive, Thermal and EM missile damage
10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity
Slot layout: 5(+1) H, 6(+1) M, 4(+1) L, 2 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 630(+90) PWG, 450(+85) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2550(+1143) / 1800(+850) / 2100(+903)
Shield Recharge Time: 1250s(+100)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+388) / 482.5s(+101.25) / 3(+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 260(+35) / 0.385 / 11780000(+1,000,000) / 6.29s(+0.54)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km(+7.5) / 310(-1) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 19(+3) Gravimetric
Signature radius: 115(+3)
Cargo capacity: 460(-25)


lets take the osprey.... a logistics t1 cruiser then forget its purpose and try and get people to use it for something else.... why ot stick to a single purpose for this hull make a more expensive version of a t1 logi with better bonuses maybe bonuses in logistics skill

no matter how hard you ty no one will take this ship seriously as a combat cruiser. same with the Auguror
Jacid
Corvix.
Greater Domain Cooperative
#208 - 2013-03-28 17:29:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacid
To all of those that complain about the Scy NI it seems to me that its going to be a pretty awesome ship to fly in fleets, and viable in solo roams.

Pros

-Fast - 280 m/s that's only 8m/s slower then the stabber at cruiser 5 with much better dps or projection

-Versatile - You can run this as a fast kiting shield ship or an uber armor utility ship (uber on the utility not the armor), a heavier fast tackle or anywhere in-between. Also both weapon systems and bonus allow for damage type flexibility.

-Surprise - People will be so baffled that your actually flying a navy scythe they will either confuse you with a regular scythe and primary you or dismiss you as flying a useless ship.

Cons

-Not as cool looking as the SFI

-Fittings could be tight depending on how its setup the CPU and PG might need a look at

-People will be angry at you for not repping them

My 2 Cents
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#209 - 2013-03-28 17:31:44 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:

Edit goldsaver where do you find this 50%rate of fire also 4+ 50% (which is 2) would be 6, not 8. While other ships have 10% and 10% something else.

Here:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Scythe Fleet Issue: This is my attempt to redeem the Minmatar split weapons tradition. Instead of forcing both weapon systems it gives both as viable choices.
Cruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
10% bonus to Missile damage
Slot layout: 5(-1) H, 5(+1) M, 5(+2) L, 4(+1) Turrets, 4(+1) Launchers
Fittings: 745 PWG, 400(+125) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2400(+1000) / 1950(+910) / 1950(+730)
Shield Recharge Time: 1250s(-100)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1275(+213) / 425s(+43.75) / 3(+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 280(+10) / 0.44 / 10910000 / 6.65s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km(+12.5) / 345 / 7
Sensor strength: 16(+3) Ladar
Signature radius: 90
Cargo capacity: 440


10% per level means at level 5 it's 50%. 50% rate of fire means half the duration. If it would normally fire once every second, it's now firing once every .5 seconds, meaning it's firing twice every second. So it's doubling the damage output at level 5. 4 turrets is effectively 8.
Sakkar Arenith
Kenmei Corporation
#210 - 2013-03-28 17:52:49 UTC
wtf nomen?!

while I appreciate the optimal bonus and more stable cap, how n the hell is it supposed to stand up to a vexor or god forbid an sfi?!

Its an oversized slicer now, that will be tackled in an instant and popped a second after that..

/facepalm


And do we as amarr really need YET ANOTHER scorch platform? How about giving it a 20% per level tracking bonus to beams instead. That way there would be at least one ship that would ever want to fit beams over scorch for a change.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2013-03-28 17:52:59 UTC
Aah i get it thanks. Guess that makes it more viable than I thought, so I guess the idea it to make a gank and run like hell ship. I can support that.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#212 - 2013-03-28 17:53:37 UTC
Damage bonuses multiply hardpoints by (1+dmg_bonus). Rate of fire bonuses divide by (1-dmg_bonus).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#213 - 2013-03-28 17:57:12 UTC
Sakkar Arenith wrote:
wtf nomen?!

while I appreciate the optimal bonus and more stable cap, how n the hell is it supposed to stand up to a vexor or god forbid an sfi?!

Its an oversized slicer now, that will be tackled in an instant and popped a second after that..

/facepalm


And do we as amarr really need YET ANOTHER scorch platform? How about giving it a 20% per level tracking bonus to beams instead. That way there would be at least one ship that would ever want to fit beams over scorch for a change.


Yes, we do. This is a very needed role that is currently completely unfilled in the game.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#214 - 2013-03-28 17:57:28 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Aah i get it thanks. Guess that makes it more viable than I thought, so I guess the idea it to make a gank and run like hell ship. I can support that.

Yeah, I'm interested to see how it turns out. I think it'll be good, and pretty fun to fly. I like the gankboat idea.


Liang Nuren wrote:
Damage bonuses multiply hardpoints by (1+dmg_bonus). Rate of fire bonuses divide by (1-dmg_bonus).

-Liang

Thanks. You described it better than I did. I was stumbling over the words to describe how ROF bonuses work.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#215 - 2013-03-28 17:59:27 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Sakkar Arenith wrote:
wtf nomen?!

while I appreciate the optimal bonus and more stable cap, how n the hell is it supposed to stand up to a vexor or god forbid an sfi?!

Its an oversized slicer now, that will be tackled in an instant and popped a second after that..

/facepalm


And do we as amarr really need YET ANOTHER scorch platform? How about giving it a 20% per level tracking bonus to beams instead. That way there would be at least one ship that would ever want to fit beams over scorch for a change.


Yes, we do. This is a very needed role that is currently completely unfilled in the game.

-Liang

I'm really looking forward to it myself. And it won't be tackled in an instant. With an MWD and a kite fit it'll be moving as fast as many frigates. It'll be by no means a bad ship, in my opinion. I like the range bonus, and I don't mind having to run a cap booster. I run one on my omen already anyways, and I fit it like I'll fit the new NOmen.
Mord Raven
Phrike Squadron
#216 - 2013-03-28 18:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mord Raven
Sakkar Arenith wrote:
wtf nomen?!

while I appreciate the optimal bonus and more stable cap, how n the hell is it supposed to stand up to a vexor or god forbid an sfi?!

Its an oversized slicer now, that will be tackled in an instant and popped a second after that..

/facepalm


And do we as amarr really need YET ANOTHER scorch platform? How about giving it a 20% per level tracking bonus to beams instead. That way there would be at least one ship that would ever want to fit beams over scorch for a change.


If you fit the new Navy Omen like you fit your Slicers I would't be surprised at all if it gets tackled and popped in seconds.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2013-03-28 18:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
missquoted...sorry.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#218 - 2013-03-28 18:14:57 UTC
Fozzie....that Omen Navy Issue.....

makes me want to have your babies.

I want that ship NOW.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Durrr
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#219 - 2013-03-28 18:21:13 UTC
Bosquit wrote:
Minmatar really are getting nerfed to ****. I'm dreading when hacs get the rebalancing treatment (slower vagas?). Minmatar are getting slower, and will be hurt by the nerf to Tracking Enhancers as well.

The whole point of Minmatar is to be fast glass cannons and it seems like they are becoming slow, poorly tanked brawlers.

SFI is also used somewhat effectively as a heavy tackler in ahacs, which will almost become non-existent now due to the nerf to armor.

What Minmatar are supposed to be as a race needs to be re-looked at by Fozzy, because all I have seen is bad things coming to Minmatar ships. Every Minmatar ships re-balance is a dissapointment....


Really? Retribution was the first time I thought about flying a bellicose or breacher. After Odyssey, I look forward to the new Scythe FI as well.
Durrr
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#220 - 2013-03-28 18:22:08 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
omen navy getting less turret damage than it already HAS. and less hitpoints than its RIVAL THE STABBER FLEET in every category. and the stabber fleet is untouched? seruiosly

UNACCEPTABLE. this makes no sense that the top of the line amarr navy cruiser has LESS ARMOR THAN ITS RIVAL.

wth the stabber fleet has more sensor strength a omen navy. ?!!?!?!?!!?!?!!!!?!?!?!?!??!!?


While I believe the new NOmen will be fine, I do agree that the Matari are historically dead last on sensor strength, and should remain so.