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hands off ECM
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Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#1 - 2013-03-27 22:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
i was doing the questionaire for CSM and there's this question

Quote:
Caldari jamming is an unfair mechanic that cannot be balanced in it's current form and should be changed entirely.


ok how is it unfair
- if you see blackbirds then damp it or just avoid fighting people who bring blackbirds
- someone can bring in falcon to a solo but they can also bring in any other ship to win the fight as well so that's not a problem with ecm per say
- if someone fits ecm to a nonecm ships well, bad luck, you were too easily led by prejudice on popular fits

it's already balanced by the stupid probability stuff and anti ecm skills, what more do people want? personally i think it should go to points so you know ahead of time what ships to engage, to balance it with all other ewars which are just as annoying if not more so.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2013-03-27 22:27:03 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
i was doing the questionaire for CSM and there's this question

Quote:
Caldari jamming is an unfair mechanic that cannot be balanced in it's current form and should be changed entirely.



That wasnt a question. It was a statement.

Questions are usually notated by a question mark (?) at the end, which indicates a question was asked.
This statement has a period (.) at the end which indicates it was not a question.
You are answering a question that was never asked.
Your arguement is invalid.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Pepper Mind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-03-27 22:27:07 UTC
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#4 - 2013-03-27 22:39:37 UTC
ECM: Best way to disrupt logistics.

take ECM out of the game and you'll have people crying how OP logistics are.


I would say: fix drone interface, increase either drone bay size or drone durability and let's continue shooting Blackbirds with our drones Big smile

... or make F.O.F.s home in on ships using ECM modules. Now that would be fun Twisted.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-03-27 22:49:05 UTC
Various incremental nerfs to ECM have put it pretty close to balanced, if anything it only needs a few minor tweaks at this stage.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Klown Walk
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-03-27 23:04:16 UTC
Remove ecm drones, lower the ecm range and allow for atleast 1 lock even when jammed.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#7 - 2013-03-28 01:36:36 UTC
Here are some considerations to 'balance' jamming.

1) remove the ability of the jammer to instantly tell if his jam was sucessful. Make it so that they know that the jammer if on, but can't instantly see if the jam was effective or not. That ambiguity alone will have an effect on how and when he/she can spread their jammers and make them less effective.

2) Consider making the jammers a defense module only. So that only the jamming ship is the ship that can't be targeted.

3) remove the 'jamming specialist', so that perma-jamming won't be so easy to obtain.

yk
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#8 - 2013-03-28 01:44:02 UTC
Make it no longer chance based but simply have every jammer on the target reduce sensor strength and once no sensor strength is left, it's jammed. This will also make the maths behind balancing them much more easy.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#9 - 2013-03-28 04:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Abrazzar wrote:
Make it no longer chance based but simply have every jammer on the target reduce sensor strength and once no sensor strength is left, it's jammed. This will also make the maths behind balancing them much more easy.


So what you're saying is you want "permajamming" to become actual reality, not just a thing people whine about when they die in less than a Jam cycle?

Situation:
250 man fleet with 0 Logi and 1 Amarr/1 Minmatar Jammer in the midslots
vs
250 man fleet with 20 Logi

Result:
250 DPS Ships
vs
230 DPS Ships and 20 Permajammed Logi (The equivalent of 16 Racial EWAR modules should probably be able to Jam out any ship, or ECM is entirely worthless in your on-or-off proposal, as Sensor strength doesn't do anything significant in a fight other than protect you from ECM).

Who's going to win that fight?

In other words, your proposal eliminates the value in a fleet of any specialty ship whose role requires it to be able to target things.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#10 - 2013-03-28 05:06:29 UTC
You just pulled both a scenario and numbers out of your ass to create a counterargument.

Congratulations. I am beaten. I can only surrender to this.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#11 - 2013-03-28 05:39:56 UTC
If ECM was considered a way of tanking, it would get the balance hammer.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-03-28 05:41:17 UTC
A message to all ECM users in the words of principle Vernon:
"That’s what I thought. You’re a gutless turd."

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-03-28 06:01:26 UTC
ECM is like a heavy hammer, if you hit your enemy dies, if you miss most likely you won't have a second chance.

permajamming sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16710949
What you don't see on this KM is that there was a thrasher also jammed

as much as being tracking disrupted sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16710616

as much as dampening sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16983277


I suppose it's not hard to see a trend here.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-03-28 06:35:49 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
ECM is like a heavy hammer, if you hit your enemy dies, if you miss most likely you won't have a second chance.

permajamming sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16710949
What you don't see on this KM is that there was a thrasher also jammed

as much as being tracking disrupted sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16710616

as much as dampening sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16983277


I suppose it's not hard to see a trend here.


None of those links work...


If you get TD'd, you can still shoot back or scram/web somebody to escape, or use energy neutralizers to free yourself from a tackler. Etc.

If you get sensor damped, you either are too far away to be in danger... Or you need to man up and get closer. At the very least you can deal with tacklers.

When you get jammed, there is nothing you can do to counter it. All your offensive modules become worthless (besides smartbombs). And you just die.

Clearly a terrible mechanic.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-03-28 06:45:36 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
ECM is like a heavy hammer, if you hit your enemy dies, if you miss most likely you won't have a second chance.

permajamming sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16710949
What you don't see on this KM is that there was a thrasher also jammed

as much as being tracking disrupted sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16710616

as much as dampening sucks:
http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16983277


I suppose it's not hard to see a trend here.


None of those links work...


If you get TD'd, you can still shoot back or scram/web somebody to escape, or use energy neutralizers to free yourself from a tackler. Etc.

If you get sensor damped, you either are too far away to be in danger... Or you need to man up and get closer. At the very least you can deal with tacklers.

When you get jammed, there is nothing you can do to counter it. All your offensive modules become worthless (besides smartbombs). And you just die.

Clearly a terrible mechanic.

all of links work copy and paste them
and no, unless attacker is ******** you can't do those things that you said. you will be locked out of fight one way or another.
Ra'Shyne Viper
Native Freshfood
#16 - 2013-03-28 06:49:40 UTC
i swear if they do anything other than reduce the jamming timer i will literally start a new petition everyday asking for my ECM SP reimbursed

DUST 514 player

Ingame name: Vin Vicious
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#17 - 2013-03-28 06:56:42 UTC
ECM should be removed anyways. Since its been added it has made other electronic warfare measures redundant.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-03-28 07:05:15 UTC
Pepper Mind wrote:
Jamming



too OP, CCP would never allow it

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-03-28 07:08:49 UTC
so, people want to nerf ECM now too? how much more do the caldari need to get shafted?

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-03-28 07:32:59 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
so, people want to nerf ECM now too? how much more do the caldari need to get shafted?

They want the mechanics changed because it's fairly terrible from a gameplay perspective. Meaning it's a binary chance based system and if it succeeds, the gameplay largely ends for the jammed person. Whether the end result of that change is a buff or a nerf to overall ECM effectiveness is a secondary matter.
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