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Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#41 - 2013-03-25 04:07:42 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

Do you really think I tremble in fear and despair that the FDU by any honest estimation contains some of the best independent mercenary organizations able to conduct a wide range of small unit actions with absolute proficiency?


I count myself very fortunate in the quality of my enemies. I am proud to be cutting my teeth on my honoured foes.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-03-25 08:13:26 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
I am not a woman of empty rhetoric and false affectations of patriotic duty. I know my task and I shall fulfill it for my love of my people, my nation and my State means that never can I abandon them and willingly shall I sacrifice with blood, bear whatever burdens of guilt duty demands and where I am judged upon the merits of my deeds and not words alone.

Please don't mistake me. The prediction that you'll get bored of the militia wasn't an insult. It's just an inevitability.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-03-25 08:43:56 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

Do you really think I tremble in fear and despair that the FDU by any honest estimation contains some of the best independent mercenary organizations able to conduct a wide range of small unit actions with absolute proficiency?


I count myself very fortunate in the quality of my enemies. I am proud to be cutting my teeth on my honoured foes.

Unfortunately, not all foes are honorable.
Honor and respect are reserved for humans, and not human creatures, like frogs, do not deserve them.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#44 - 2013-03-25 09:26:16 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Please don't mistake me. The prediction that you'll get bored of the militia wasn't an insult. It's just an inevitability.


War and conflict is my business, Mr. Ixiris.

Given recent events I do not think I will be out of a job anytime soon. If the FDU retains its current roster of military contractors then I foresee much work ahead to be done. In fact, the prospect of one being able to meet them in full-scale fleet action fills me only with the greatest sense of succinct anticipation and excitement. How can ennui take hold of me with so many potential enemies who wish nothing more to seek my destruction and I theirs?

I close my eyes and I find succour from my burdens in those sublime moments of clarity between the flashes of frenzied synesthia as the veins flood with combat stimulants and raw adrenaline; the incandescent flashes of super-heated anti-matter plasma impacting upon hull plating; the ripping apart of internal structures via gravimetric shear effects; the feel of the rapidly expanding corona of a reactor breach upon ones own shields...

There's beauty to be found in those moments. There's an embrace of life, joy and passion the closer one comes to understanding the frailty of existence and our own mortality. The only inevitability here is that violence has shown me what it is to be a capsuleer combatant and I no longer have fear due to the acceptance of my reality where the inexorable advances of time will not weaken me, but rather every day will strengthen my resolve.

I do not seek fame nor glory. I do not require power over others for I have abandoned ambition. I do not have politics for I find them unnecessary. I do not have an ideology or a cause because service to my nation alone is enough.

I am but the weapon and the tool to inflict violence and destruction where it is required according to the principles and ideals I choose. I have chosen the Caldari State, so then shall I seek to sharpen my skills with the blood of its enemies.

One can always wish for peace, hope for it, and fight for it, but I cannot deny that there is a part of me now that will mourn the day I will have to abandon these fields of death and suffering like a disquiet that passes over the heart.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Vikarion
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-03-25 10:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

I close my eyes and I find succour from my burdens in those sublime moments of clarity between the flashes of frenzied synesthia as the veins flood with combat stimulants and raw adrenaline; the incandescent flashes of super-heated anti-matter plasma impacting upon hull plating; the ripping apart of internal structures via gravimetric shear effects; the feel of the rapidly expanding corona of a reactor breach upon ones own shields...

There's beauty to be found in those moments. There's an embrace of life, joy and passion the closer one comes to understanding the frailty of existence and our own mortality. The only inevitability here is that violence has shown me what it is to be a capsuleer combatant and I no longer have fear due to the acceptance of my reality where the inexorable advances of time will not weaken me, but rather every day will strengthen my resolve.

I do not seek fame nor glory. I do not require power over others for I have abandoned ambition. I do not have politics for I find them unnecessary. I do not have an ideology or a cause because service to my nation alone is enough.

I am but the weapon and the tool to inflict violence and destruction where it is required according to the principles and ideals I choose. I have chosen the Caldari State, so then shall I seek to sharpen my skills with the blood of its enemies.

One can always wish for peace, hope for it, and fight for it, but I cannot deny that there is a part of me now that will mourn the day I will have to abandon these fields of death and suffering like a disquiet that passes over the heart.


Now that, my enemies, is a purity of purpose and passion worth worshiping. This is the apotheosis of our kind, the rejection of our humble human origins in favor of the dark gods we may become. There is nothing better for any of us than to live up to this.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#46 - 2013-03-25 17:38:10 UTC
I might admire it for what it is, but talk of worship and dark gods is a bit to melodramatic for me. Even with my typically Gallentean love for the theater.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-03-25 19:07:38 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
I might admire it for what it is, but talk of worship and dark gods is a bit to melodramatic for me. Even with my typically Gallentean love for the theater.


Those who cannot grasp metaphor and imagery are not worth the trouble of reaching.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-03-25 20:01:38 UTC
Caldari Prime will forever be the ancestral home of the Caldari people. We have made mistakes and we have learned from them, this will be no different.

Perhaps Ishukone sets an important precedent with diplomacy in how we could achieve our end goal. We must ask ourselves, if our end goal is to reclaim our home world, why would be averse to doing so through diplomacy? We have a measure of pride that would prevent us from kneeling and begging and I would never condone such activity. But honest diplomacy? There is a way to obtain what is important, our home back.

If our end goal is the punishment of the Gallente and to deal to them a black eye as they have done to us, then can we not be honest enough to state that as our end goal rather than claiming our end goal is reclaiming home?

To the original post, many of us would give and do nearly anything to see Caldari Prime once again be home to the Caldari and a Caldari populace. Simply "giving it up" is not an option.

~Malcolm Khross
Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
#49 - 2013-03-26 23:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sakura Nihil
Zeko Rena wrote:
Sakura Nihil wrote:
I have some words of advice for my fellow Caldari, and for the State itself after yesterday's events - let Caldari Prime go.


What happens then when they decide they would like another Caldari planet, let that go as well?

Last time I checked, CP was the only Caldari planet within Federal territory. Lowsec systems are low-value, and I'm sure that if the Caldari Prime question could be settled, any temporary occupancies or takeovers in them could be reverted.

Glory

Faded Light is recruiting
Erik Kaassan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-03-27 14:22:32 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
I have some words of advice for my fellow Caldari, and for the State itself after yesterday's events - let Caldari Prime go.

Focusing so much on the homeworld has left you all blind to what that obsession has done to the Caldari people at large. The military and economy of the State is weakening, and what's worse nationalism and xenophobia seem to run rampant within society. Instead of the heads of the Megas competing with each other, driving innovation, progress, and diversity, you've allowed the bulk of Caldari population within the cluster to be placed under the boot of an incompetent dictator.

Let it go. It's simply not worth the effort and sacrifices that are being made on its behalf.


And bow once more to Gallente Imperialism once again? Maybe we should just surrender peacefully, dissolve our government, and start licking King Rodens boots while we're at it?

We fought for our independence from Gallente control as we are doing now. While I have no love of Tibus Heth i know that we will, as a people, fight for the home that is ours in right and in name.
Toluijin Chagangan
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-03-27 14:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Toluijin Chagangan
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Caldari Prime will forever be the ancestral home of the Caldari people. We have made mistakes and we have learned from them, this will be no different.

Perhaps Ishukone sets an important precedent with diplomacy in how we could achieve our end goal. We must ask ourselves, if our end goal is to reclaim our home world, why would be averse to doing so through diplomacy? We have a measure of pride that would prevent us from kneeling and begging and I would never condone such activity. But honest diplomacy? There is a way to obtain what is important, our home back.

If our end goal is the punishment of the Gallente and to deal to them a black eye as they have done to us, then can we not be honest enough to state that as our end goal rather than claiming our end goal is reclaiming home?

To the original post, many of us would give and do nearly anything to see Caldari Prime once again be home to the Caldari and a Caldari populace. Simply "giving it up" is not an option.


Mr Khross, you are one of the Caldari who I respect the most in this conflict.
While a stauch defender of your people you have the wisdom to see through the mass of barbarity and insult thrown about by both your peers and the gallente.

I saw a quote recently that encapsulates this entire conflict.

Caldari Prime is the homeworld of the Caldari people.
New Caldari is the homeworld of the Caldari state.

It would seem that these two things, especially in recent years, are no longer one and the same.

the inverse is also true, Gallente prime is not the seat of power for the Federation, that lies in the nearby system of Villore.

If it was not for this war, the people of Caldari would be able to visit or even stay upon the planet in question. Even given that it resides within Federation space. The problem, especially in the last 5 years is simply one of sovereignty. Not exactly even of the planet but of the space surrounding the planet.

It has been shown that even under Federate control, the people of Caldari Prime lived in a remarkably Caldari way. The local customs of the Caldari people were created over generations as survival traits for a harsh and unforgiving world. These traits are picked up by settlers from many backgrounds, or the settlers do not survive. This is the beauty of your world. It hones people into survivors.

So. In the end, this conflict can be boiled down to pride. Neither side wishes to have the other in control of the space surrounding Caldari Prime. Nor are they willing to have it set to a neutral party.

The reality of the situation though is this, The system is within Federation space, Any attempt to force Caldari sovereignty over the space surrounding Caldari prime is likely to result in more debris falling upon your home.

It is time to try something else. Free access to the planet could be arranged, a separate government could be negotiated, much like the intaki assembly, yes, they would be answerable to the Federation senate, but they could be Caldari people, living upon their homeworld and working towards the interests of the planet Caldari Prime.

The State and Federation will likely never see eye to eye on this or many other matters, but that does not mean that the people of Caldari Prime should have no voice. At the moment, they are being used as nothing more than a bargaining chip, and that MUST stop.

Perhaps this outsider's perspective on the matter is skewed. Perhaps there can be no hope.
But i do firmly believe that given the right to self government, even if as a part of the federation and not the state, the people of Caldari Prime would be better served than they have been these past few years.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#52 - 2013-03-27 15:18:50 UTC
Chagangan,

Your kind words and respect honor me.

I agree with your assessment almost in entirety. A repetitive cycle of back and forth attacks will only harm the people and the planet, perhaps this is more evident now than ever.

I would push for a neutral government over the planet moreso than a Federal government over it but to be quite honest, either is more acceptable than continuing the cycle of suffering and struggle in addition to the struggles of simply living on the planet.

Our history has shown us that we are a capable and proud people, sometimes our pride has been our greatest asset and other times our greatest bane.

~Malcolm Khross
Toluijin Chagangan
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-03-27 21:26:16 UTC
While I agree that a neutral government may be more pleasing to the people of the state, the fact remains that Luminaire is within Federate borders, It is unlikely that they would be willing to allow a totally neutral government.

That said, an independent government that is a signatory to the federation charter, would benefit both sides of this conflict.

Much like the Intaki assembly has retained independent control of it's concerns while still remaining a signatory, The people of Caldari Prime, whether of Caldari, Gallente or mixed heritage could have their lives and homes back and under their own control.

I sincerely hope that the actions of Ishukone and the Gallente senate can be used as a first step towards this future.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#54 - 2013-03-28 23:02:42 UTC
Except that many of us would still not have access to Home - let alone the right to live and raise our families upon it.

That's not much of a solution, is it?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#55 - 2013-03-28 23:28:56 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Except that many of us would still not have access to Home - let alone the right to live and raise our families upon it.

That's not much of a solution, is it?


Since when have the Caldari not had access to Caldari Prime? Immigration and expatriate policy is beyond lenient in the Federation.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2013-03-29 01:31:57 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Except that many of us would still not have access to Home - let alone the right to live and raise our families upon it.

That's not much of a solution, is it?


Since when have the Caldari not had access to Caldari Prime? Immigration and expatriate policy is beyond lenient in the Federation.


This again. The ability to settle Caldari Prime so long as we cease to be Caldari is no ability at all. It's certainly not a concession of anything at all.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#57 - 2013-03-29 01:33:43 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Except that many of us would still not have access to Home - let alone the right to live and raise our families upon it.

That's not much of a solution, is it?


Since when have the Caldari not had access to Caldari Prime? Immigration and expatriate policy is beyond lenient in the Federation.

In other words, we can only go home if we renounce our citizenship and live as a Gallente.
There is absolutely no reason we should be forced to do that.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-03-29 01:50:44 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This again. The ability to settle Caldari Prime so long as we cease to be Caldari is no ability at all. It's certainly not a concession of anything at all.

It's better than a goddamn war. I'm sorry, Pieter, but sometimes people on both sides of this argument forget that never was there such a thing as a good war nor such a thing as a bad peace, and that rarely enough can there be a perfect solution to any problem. No, I don't think Caldari Prime not being under genuine State governance is a perfect state of affairs but it's better than... this. It's better than a meaningless war killing tens of thousands every day. It's better than a nine-kilometre chunk of burning metal crashing into a planet. It's better than two national governments whose stability the people rely upon s****ing themselves inside out.

What we had before wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it was better than what we've had for the past five years. It's made monsters out of all of us, and for what? Intaki Prime is more important to me than most people could possibly imagine but it'd never be worth all the horrors I've seen in the past half-decade.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-03-29 02:23:20 UTC
The federation consists of a myriad of cultures, and ways to live, im kinda possitive if the State and the federation dident have the history they have, poisoned by paranoia, coution and you name it... it be alot easier to live side by side... what i think it comes down to, is not to allow the caldari to live in peace according to their ways on their home planet, its fear of the past repeating itself... both sides have after all made it a very complicated matter... im hopefull though, Ishukones diplomatic step is one step in the right direction
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#60 - 2013-03-29 03:51:37 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This again. The ability to settle Caldari Prime so long as we cease to be Caldari is no ability at all. It's certainly not a concession of anything at all.

It's better than a goddamn war. I'm sorry, Pieter, but sometimes people on both sides of this argument forget that never was there such a thing as a good war nor such a thing as a bad peace, and that rarely enough can there be a perfect solution to any problem. No, I don't think Caldari Prime not being under genuine State governance is a perfect state of affairs but it's better than... this. It's better than a meaningless war killing tens of thousands every day. It's better than a nine-kilometre chunk of burning metal crashing into a planet. It's better than two national governments whose stability the people rely upon s****ing themselves inside out.

What we had before wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it was better than what we've had for the past five years. It's made monsters out of all of us, and for what? Intaki Prime is more important to me than most people could possibly imagine but it'd never be worth all the horrors I've seen in the past half-decade.


No, I'm sorry Andreus but this just isn't true. We've had to live through two periods with an unsupportable solution to the Caldari Prime problem and both have ended in large scale death and catastrophe. If we don't resolve this issue for once and all in a manner that's acceptable to both people - we'll just wind up back here again.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.