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Heth responds to loss of Shiigeru and Ishukone contact with Gallente senate

Author
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#41 - 2013-03-27 16:10:04 UTC
In other places, I have said that the need to act may arise. Let me to elaborate:

The Provists have demonstrated time and again that they have little care for the rule of law. In their mind, the possession of power allows its free exercise; it may be capricious, it may fly in the face of custom and law, but it may be exercised freely. Consider their seizure of some executives who sparked a mass resignation, consider their executive dismissal of a slander suit against Pyre Falcon, and how odds are that these 'investigations' being executed by the Provists are likely to be shams.

If Heth moves against Reppola, it will serve to me as validation of the Executor's overreach. He would punish the one man working on behalf of the Caldari on Caldari Prime, the one man trying to do some good in this whole forsaken mess.

To be honest, I don't know how one pilot can undermine the Provists to restore the rule of law. I'd like to find out, though.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#42 - 2013-03-27 16:29:28 UTC
Hevaima Gesakaarin wrote:
Technically, the Executor serves at the discretion of the Chief Executive Panel and its members within a specific mandate. It would be a grievous misconception to believe that the situation is the reverse. Perhaps to use your analogy, an Executor that starts to insult the members of the CEP may just find themselves facing unforeseen consequences if, in forgetting just who it is that preserves their power, decides to call decisions to account.

This is the Caldari way.

This is how meritocracy works.

I would expect the Executives of the CEP, being the most able of us no doubt already know this and will continue to carry out their obligations to their citizens and the State with the decorum and dignity that befits their positions of leadership and authority.


An excellent post, Gesakaarin-haan. Please allow me to expand, if I may.

That which is written is not the same as that which is. Words are maps, and maps are by necessity abstractions. They are often biased, falsified, or wrong. This can be by intention or by accident, but none are true reflections of reality. They can only approach, never arrive.

To understand the truth of a matter, one must read the words, and then look beyond them.

This is the Caldari way.

This is how the meritocracy works.

I would expect the Executives of the CEP, being the most able of us no doubt already know this and will continue to carry out their obligations to their citizens and the State with the decorum and dignity that befits their positions of leadership and authority.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-03-27 16:34:20 UTC
That is not the impression of affairs various correspondence with individuals has given me, Scherezad.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#44 - 2013-03-27 16:55:53 UTC
Scherezad-haani, a comment, if I may.

While one may contend that the members of the CEP are the most able, the question in turn is where their ability lies. After all, particular skills are needed for that role which would be of no use elsewhere. What use does a dockworker have for political acumen? What use does an executive have for the ability to operate heavy machinery? This is, I suppose, one of the reasons why we revere those who rise to great power from humble backgrounds, as Heth. Of course, that Heth is losing much of his political power is clear -- and so will follow a loss of reverence. I digress.

To return to the topic at hand, the political acumen that makes the members of the CEP so able also enables them to see political reality. Consider Heth's great popularity with the masses these past few years. If the members of the Board had opposed his actions, their corporation, their workforce would have suffered greatly, and so they may have continued to serve Heth despite his increasing militancy, the increasing risk to the State as a whole.

You may revere the Executives as the most able -- but remember that they are still men, that they are still subject to the same fears and worries as the rest of us.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-03-27 16:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Fractal Muse
I applaud State Executor Tibus Heth's decision to investigate the conduct of Admiral Visera Yanala and of wing commander Sami Okuuda of the Caldari Navy’s 37th ‘Octopus’ Squadron.

I was there in orbit as the fighting raged and even though I am not a military commander of any ability I could see that the command of the Caldari Navy was derelict in its duty to its pilots.

There were many moments in the engagement that the Caldari Navy could have beaten the Federation Navy but, for whatever reasons, Admiral Visera Yanala did -not- order these moments to be exploited.

This is the correct decision by State Executor Tibus Heth. He needs to purge the Caldari Navy of its incompetent commanders who are hiding behind unearned decorations and false tales of bravery. How was the State Executor to know of Admiral Visera's incompetency when it comes to actual fleet engagements? He was blinded, as all were in the Caladari State, by the on-going lies, deceptions, and exaggerations of the Caldari Navy.

This seems to be a systemic and fatal situation that State Executor Tibus Heth must deal with. It is now clear that the Caldari Navy makes up its accolades and promotes not based on merit but based on corruption.

If my voice were to be heard I would suggest that he takes full control of the Caldari Navy upon himself and purges the highest "officers" in the Navy to cleanse it of all those who should never have made it to command positions.

If the Caldari State is to survive these coming days and protect Caldari Prime in support of the troops on the ground drastic measures must be taken in support of the State.

Glory to the Caldari State and to the embodiment of its greatness: State Executor Tibus Heth.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-03-27 17:01:42 UTC
Not sure if serious...

~Malcolm Khross

Eric 'Swiftmind' Siraron
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-03-27 17:04:06 UTC
*shrugs* Eh this is to be expected. Angry defiant speeches about the loss and will do an investigation into why it happened. I am not familiar with Caldari culture at all, but sounds pretty typical to me. The media always talking about how one looks. Of course he looks ill; the Caldari just suffered a major defeat. Great stress can make anyone look ill.

If the Caldari people respond well to the speech, then it was a good one.

Eric 'Swiftmind' Siraron Gallente Federation Engineering, research, business student at the prestigious Eve University. Owner of Swiftly Processing. A private trading, manufacturing and refining business.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#48 - 2013-03-27 17:04:13 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Scherezad-haani, a comment, if I may.

While one may contend that the members of the CEP are the most able, the question in turn is where their ability lies. After all, particular skills are needed for that role which would be of no use elsewhere. What use does a dockworker have for political acumen? What use does an executive have for the ability to operate heavy machinery? This is, I suppose, one of the reasons why we revere those who rise to great power from humble backgrounds, as Heth. Of course, that Heth is losing much of his political power is clear -- and so will follow a loss of reverence. I digress.

To return to the topic at hand, the political acumen that makes the members of the CEP so able also enables them to see political reality. Consider Heth's great popularity with the masses these past few years. If the members of the Board had opposed his actions, their corporation, their workforce would have suffered greatly, and so they may have continued to serve Heth despite his increasing militancy, the increasing risk to the State as a whole.

You may revere the Executives as the most able -- but remember that they are still men, that they are still subject to the same fears and worries as the rest of us.


I agree.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#49 - 2013-03-27 17:06:14 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
That is not the impression of affairs various correspondence with individuals has given me, Scherezad.


When one presses a stone into the sand, the impression is not at all the same thing as the stone.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#50 - 2013-03-27 17:08:36 UTC
Eric 'Swiftmind' Siraron wrote:
*shrugs* Eh this is to be expected. Angry defiant speeches about the loss and will do an investigation into why it happened. I am not familiar with Caldari culture at all, but sounds pretty typical to me. The media always talking about how one looks. Of course he looks ill; the Caldari just suffered a major defeat. Great stress can make anyone look ill.

If the Caldari people respond well to the speech, then it was a good one.


Sir, if you take Heth's 'investigations' and fist pounding as 'typical' I suggest you seek education from one of the fine examples of Caldari that frequent these forums. Please don't mistake Heth emotional responses and fruitless inquiries as the norm for how Caldari society works.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-03-27 17:14:05 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
When one presses a stone into the sand, the impression is not at all the same thing as the stone.

The instructive value of metaphors and proverbs only stretches so far.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#52 - 2013-03-27 17:26:04 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
When one presses a stone into the sand, the impression is not at all the same thing as the stone.

The instructive value of metaphors and proverbs only stretches so far.


I apologize, sir. I thought it was rather clear. Perhaps it is a cultural thing, or perhaps my own limitations. I will try again, more plainly.

The impression one gets from talking to individuals has no bearing on reality.

or, perhaps more cleanly,

The plural of anecdote is not data.
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#53 - 2013-03-27 19:01:31 UTC
If one wants to know where the rot within the Navy came from, one only needs to look to the CPD. The politicization of the military is a threat not only to our readiness, but to the soul of the Navy itself. It is time to burn out the infected growth and leave only those who remember the true mission of the Navy. An end to the reign of Hethist sycophants and undisciplined thugs, and renewed professionalism and attention to the chain of command, which most decidedly does not end with the false office of the "Executor."

The Chief Executive Panel's time is running out. They must act now, before Heth leaves the body of the State so riddled with gangrene that it cannot survive.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#54 - 2013-03-27 20:30:37 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
They always... vote... but their votes are insignificant.
The State do not have to ask for some sort of megalomaniac galactic federation to access our assets. We just come and take what is ours, well, with exception of Ishukone.
We don't need federal... "recognition".
They can eat it with our torpedoes!


And without sending the Navy into a suicide charge across the border, how exactly do you propose they do that?

This is why I'm glad mindsets like yours are a firm minority Kim, if people took you seriously we'd be mourning even more unnecessary deaths.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#55 - 2013-03-27 20:36:35 UTC
I find it ironic that a state giving so much power to corporations, and the corporations having the ability to negotiate with anybody they want, would attempt to have "one man" be the head honcho.

Now look at the results.


The whole thing is dumb. And frankly, the citizens of Caldari never got the chance to realize that their destiny was in their hands all along. They lost that, on their own, and suffered under it, and put up with Gallente-owned corporations on their own.

And the racism of Heth was the only thing to uplift them? Their identity based on hate and waging war?

When has that ever worked? Even the Amarr and Minmatar are careful not to let base ideals get the best of them, even if they have the elements for it.


I hope to see an end to this pointless war.

Treason? The empires are working as intended.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2013-03-27 22:03:35 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
When one presses a stone into the sand, the impression is not at all the same thing as the stone.

The instructive value of metaphors and proverbs only stretches so far.


I apologize, sir. I thought it was rather clear. Perhaps it is a cultural thing, or perhaps my own limitations. I will try again, more plainly.

The impression one gets from talking to individuals has no bearing on reality.

or, perhaps more cleanly,

The plural of anecdote is not data.


One might also say that even when a mask is formed by pressing clay against the face, only the inside of the mask reveals the true face of the wearer, not the outside.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Lucas Raholan
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
#57 - 2013-03-27 22:22:26 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
They always... vote... but their votes are insignificant.
The State do not have to ask for some sort of megalomaniac galactic federation to access our assets. We just come and take what is ours, well, with exception of Ishukone.
We don't need federal... "recognition".
They can eat it with our torpedoes!


And without sending the Navy into a suicide charge across the border, how exactly do you propose they do that?

This is why I'm glad mindsets like yours are a firm minority Kim, if people took you seriously we'd be mourning even more unnecessary deaths.



Glad as I am Mr Marellus, mindsets like this may be truly lost to the light. And lead to actions that would leave more mothers, wife's and children without loved ones for unnecessary violence with no accomplishment or gain.

I am just an outsider but I think the Caldari must accept that they have been resoundingly defeated on the field of combat and that the only way now to regain any access to there spiritual and ancestral homeworld is to follow in the footstep of Reppola.

Diana Kim says it is the Caldari way to take what it wants with force, the Amarr once thought this true many years ago, and we are still reeling from the aftermath of that ideology which eventually brought near ruin to us as a society. That way is not the way of the Caldari nor one I would wish for them to go down.

'To serve the people before you serve yourself' I feel this phrase sums up what many Caldari feel about themselves. Reppola has put the needs of the Caldari on Caldari Prime before what ever political ramifications towards himself he will imbue from Heth, while Heth only seeks to maintain his own power even if it means betraying those who fought bravely to the end in defense of the State despite the knowledge they would likely lose.

I ask, which of the two above most sums up that phrase. Because I wouldn't pick Heth.

Shitposts so bad CONCORD gave me a 50 billion ISK bounty

Gustav Kleist
Abyssal Infinity
#58 - 2013-03-28 00:36:20 UTC
The one thing that can be seen as treason here is the backstabbing of the Navy Command by the Executor. When one assigns an officer to a command, one must take care to have collected sufficient intelligence, provide a clear set of objectives and rules of engagement, as well as to clarify up to what point the forces in question are expendable, if they are at all.

The destruction of Admiral Yanala's command might have been avoided, if sufficient freedom of action had been given to the Admiral to make other arrangements, like moving some of her capital assets to threaten a strike on Luminaire proper if CN Shiigeru was attacked, or having a back-up capital force on stand-by at Kassigainen, or many other things. None of which were prepared. Instead, it looks very much as if the 37th Squadron of the Kimotoro Fleet was placed around CN Shiigeru like an afterthought.

Now that might be "simple'' incompetence on a military level. However, given the fact that the Executor has such a centralized control on Caldari operational "planning" (however I loathe to use this word presently) and that he assigned ADM. Yanala to this command implies, affirms and underlines that the ultimate command responsibility is his.

In the old days, he would already have had his last cup of tea. We have fallen very far indeed if we allow him to "investigate" the officers he sent into certain death.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#59 - 2013-03-28 01:36:55 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And the racism of Heth was the only thing to uplift them? Their identity based on hate and waging war? When has that ever worked?


Actually it once created an entire nation.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Even the Amarr and Minmatar are careful not to let base ideals get the best of them, even if they have the elements for it.


If you're ever looking for some cheap salvage there's still plenty of station debris floating around at Yulai.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
#60 - 2013-03-28 02:15:54 UTC
So, park a Titan above the KK peaks, and then blame the Gallente when they take it down?

Quality logic right there.

In other news, I shot a bunch of mining barges that happened to be in the way between my guns and the chunk of ice behind them. Those stupid miners should watch where they park their hulks!