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Heth's speech: Were commanders acting independent? Divisions amonst the Caldari?

Author
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-03-27 01:40:51 UTC
First off, the comments about an investigation into the commanders. Had they been within his scope, there would most assuredly be some statement about the honor and their giving their lives in an attempt to protect the homeland. It seems odd to me that the actions of the Admiral would be addressed in such a disconcerting tone had Heth's cabinet had any power or sway over what has happened.

Secondly, It is pretty obvious that Heth is in direct opposition to Ishukone's operations. The fact that if my charts are correct, the relief fleet moved through a low security constellation instead of controlled and safe high security space. To me it seems like a foolish and illogical move unless there was greater threat on the main shipping routes.

Ishukone is one of the three major companies in caldari and also manufacturers of the prominent Vulture fleet command modification to the standard navy Ferox. For the navy to estrange itself from such a specialist supplier so openly begs other questions.

Who else will follow since it seems that Heth would put racial grudges ahead of the well being of the survivors of Caldari Prime?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-03-27 02:28:10 UTC
As a squadron member in support of the convoy while it was in route to its destination, I assure you that the path chosen to be taken by the convoy was the most legitimate and calculated path that could have been taken at the time.

Executor Heth has made his stance clear regarding Ishukone and the activities of the Federation. His public attack against the admiral he put in place does not speak well of him.

I will refrain from further comment.

~Malcolm Khross

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#3 - 2013-03-27 02:31:51 UTC
I tend to agree with Khross-haan.

Executor Heth put Admiral Yanala into that position. To some degree, then, he deserves responsibility for any failures on her part.

Similarly, Ishukone is attempting to deliver aid to the people of Caldari Prime. Surely it is good to deliver necessary food and medical supplies to the Caldari people...?

While I appreciate Khross-haan's discretion, I will go a step further: action against Heth may be required soon, for the good of the State.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Tiber Brucato
Really Great Space Corporation
United Neopian Federation
#4 - 2013-03-27 03:06:11 UTC
I hope he's ready to bear the responsability of saying those words, and how history will judge them.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-03-27 03:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Malcolm Khross wrote:
As a squadron member in support of the convoy while it was in route to its destination, I assure you that the path chosen to be taken by the convoy was the most legitimate and calculated path that could have been taken at the time.

Executor Heth has made his stance clear regarding Ishukone and the activities of the Federation. His public attack against the admiral he put in place does not speak well of him.

I will refrain from further comment.


First off, my apologies to you and the fleet!

I was in station at the time I read the news article via a mobile neocom terminal. Upon checking my charts data, I misread the location of the constellation as being in black rise.

Having returned to my quarters, I re-checked the constellation and found my statement about routing to be in error.

That is all.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#6 - 2013-03-27 08:02:22 UTC
I was expecting him to be outspoken against Ishukone. His interests have long seemed to lie more in harming the Gallente than helping the Caldari, and Ishukone has long fended off his un-Caldari was in trying to dictate the corporations actions to that effect.

I am surprised and appalled by what he is saying about his own military commanders appointed by himself. Despite having lost the viscous battle, they still possess more honor and integrity than him, and regardless of that, he shares the blame for any of the Admiral's failings since Heth personally appointed the Admiral for the position.


I fear that the message about the viscous attacks by Gallente my end up ignored by the other nations solely because the speaker is so reprehensible.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-27 08:41:26 UTC
There is no really such things as division.
Markus Reese wrote:
First off, the comments about an investigation into the commanders. Had they been within his scope, there would most assuredly be some statement about the honor and their giving their lives in an attempt to protect the homeland. It seems odd to me that the actions of the Admiral would be addressed in such a disconcerting tone had Heth's cabinet had any power or sway over what has happened.

Orders must be followed, and those, who give orders can't hold your hand in whatever you do. Unfortunately, this time, despite practically destroying gallente strike force, we have failed. Analysing the situation and learning from our mistakes is a best choice to prepare for a proper retaliation strike, that gallenteans wouldn't be able to resist.

Markus Reese wrote:

Secondly, It is pretty obvious that Heth is in direct opposition to Ishukone's operations. The fact that if my charts are correct, the relief fleet moved through a low security constellation instead of controlled and safe high security space. To me it seems like a foolish and illogical move unless there was greater threat on the main shipping routes.

Oh, this is not so obvious, or, rather, it should be turned in different direction. Tibus Heth represent corporations of our State, and it is rather Ishukone who is in opposition to the rest of the State. Of course our valorous leader can't ignore this issue. Ishukone plays by walking on a thin edge, and, unfortunately, walks in different direction that the rest of the State by licking federal boots.

Markus Reese wrote:

Ishukone is one of the three major companies in caldari and also manufacturers of the prominent Vulture fleet command modification to the standard navy Ferox. For the navy to estrange itself from such a specialist supplier so openly begs other questions.

This is not the only thing that they are working for, there are still covert ops and even jump freighters. But still this is not relevant. Just producing some sort of good doesn't allow a corporation to oppose everyone else and disgracing the State by their deeds.

Markus Reese wrote:

Who else will follow since it seems that Heth would put racial grudges ahead of the well being of the survivors of Caldari Prime?

So far what he said, I will fully follow to his words. He is doing necessary things. Of course there will be traitorous scum that will try to oppose him and thus oppose our State, but this is definitely is not enough to make a 'division'.
Caldari are strong and determined.
And we can find and root out rebellous traitorous scum before they will really hurt.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-03-27 09:13:35 UTC
Let me start with two apologies before I continue. Firstly, I apologize to my Caldari friends and to any Caldari who might see the following as some outsider trying to dictate something to you all. That is not my intent, I merely wish to draw some attention to some historical similarities. Secondly, I apologize to any fellow Amarrians for the upcoming usage of a distasteful word. Now then, with that out of the way I'll get to the point.

It occurred to me that there are some similarities, granted they could seem slight and minor, between the current state of affairs within the leadership of the Caldari State, and something that happened in the Empire nearly two thousand years ago. I speak of Zaragram the Second, one of our Emperors who is more commonly remembered as The Mad Emperor if he is even remembered at all. The Mad Emperor came into power at a time in the Empire when political power was heavily vested in the Council of Apostles, of which the Emperor traditionally held the chief position within. However Zaragram sought more and more power. His reign was characterized by bold Imperial decrees that were increasingly contrary to Amarrian faith and tradition. In fact his religious decrees are quite plainly considered heretical, both by modern standards and the standards of the time. The Mad Emperor became simply a grave threat to the Amarrian people and Amarrian culture at large. Eventually The Mad Emperor's heresies earned him not only a worldly assassination, but also the most severe punishment to exist in the Empire. His name was struck from The Book of Records. I...may not be able to truly explain the cultural significance of this action to those who are not Amarrian themselves. But suffice it to say, it is considered more severe than execution or enslavement. But even with the actions of faithful Amarrians to reverse the heretical decrees of the Mad Emperor, to repair the damage he had done, it still took some five centuries before the Empire could be said to have recovered and began to thrive again.

Again, I am not intending to dictate or even suggest drastic action to the Caldari people. I simply felt it was an appropriate time to draw attention to seemingly, if vaguely, similar situations. If anything I would stress that history has lessons that can provide some longer-term perspective on the present age.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-03-27 10:14:54 UTC
You amarrians with your Emperors. No, of course I respect your culture, but just projecting Emperor on us was not a really good move. Yes, I know a certain organization, that is inclined towards one of our own empires of the old age. And I know of a certain corporations, whose leader too often challenges the State.

Luckily, we have Tibus Heth, who is protecting our culture, our souverenity and our interests and won't allow this 'Mad Emperor' scenario to come true. Together with our Executor, all together as one State we will overcome all problems and difficulties.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-03-27 10:42:21 UTC
Thank you for sharing a lesson gleaned from history, Ferhnah. You need not apologize for seeking to impart wisdom from the experiences of your own people and you didn't attempt to dictate the actions the Caldari should take.

I will consider the lessons contained within the history you have presented.

~Malcolm Khross

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#11 - 2013-03-27 15:53:11 UTC
As Khross-haan has said, thank you, Ms. Fehrnah.

I know that I have been outspoken lately about the arrogance of some. If I may be so bold, Fehrnah's lesson is a wonderful example of how cross-cultural exchange should be: the humble sharing of a lesson, rather than an imperious passing-from-on-high of a decree.

Again, thank you.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#12 - 2013-03-27 16:11:35 UTC
Also, Khross-haan? We may have to disagree soon. It's very nearly unseemly to be of like mind on so many things.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#13 - 2013-03-27 16:13:53 UTC
As the pilot who made the suggestion to fleet command for the Ishukone jump freighters to use Seyllin as the detour system, I want to make clear that the suggestion was made in response to an urgent request for a lowsec system that not only had a highsec connection, but was also close to Luminaire and within jump range of the system the convoy was held up in.

This request was made in response to a potentially hostile situation that was brewing in the Sivala-Uedama pipe. Rather than risk losing one or more of the freighters and the urgently-needed supplies within, the commander of the Ishukone pilots decided to take the suggestion, and sent Verin ahead to supply the cynosural beacon. Any other option would have caused unnecessary risk to the convoy.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-03-27 16:16:15 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Also, Khross-haan? We may have to disagree soon. It's very nearly unseemly to be of like mind on so many things.


I disagree.

~Malcolm Khross

Reeves Todako
Caldari Corn Paste
#15 - 2013-03-27 17:39:28 UTC
Sounds to me like everyone, Caldari Commanders included, need to take a vacation! Perhaps add a bit more Caldari Corn Paste to your diets, eh? Studies have shown it to be 34.9% more effective then competitors brands in calming the nerves and digestive systems!
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-03-27 17:46:31 UTC
Reeves Todako wrote:
Sounds to me like everyone, Caldari Commanders included, need to take a vacation! Perhaps add a bit more Caldari Corn Paste to your diets, eh? Studies have shown it to be 34.9% more effective then competitors brands in calming the nerves and digestive systems!

Caldari State Executor Tibus Heth needs to purge the Caldari Navy of its Commanders and take direct control of the Navy.

This debacle is the fault of the Caldari Navy. Unfortunately, they have misrepresented themselves to the Caldari State Executor who, in his greatness of goodwill to his people, believed in them.

The time is now for the Caldari State to rise up from this disaster and remove the incompetent in the Caldari Navy.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-03-27 17:52:36 UTC
As usual, Tibus Heth directs the blame to everyone but himself and the people of the State are beginning to see through this charade.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#18 - 2013-03-27 18:20:29 UTC
I'm finding it difficult to take Fractal Muse seriously.

Is that person serious?

I'm assuming not...?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-03-27 18:28:49 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
I'm finding it difficult to take Fractal Muse seriously.

Is that person serious?

I'm assuming not...?

I am serious.

The signs are clear and the path that needs to be taken even clearer.

The Caldari State has allowed for the incompetence of its navy to persist for too long. It is time to shake things up and to purge the bad commanders across all of the organization. This restructuring would strengthen the Caldari State and allow Heth to enact policy in a more direct and forceful manner.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-03-27 18:35:00 UTC
Fractal Muse wrote:

I am serious.

The signs are clear and the path that needs to be taken even clearer.

The Caldari State has allowed for the incompetence of its navy to persist for too long. It is time to shake things up and to purge the bad commanders across all of the organization. This restructuring would strengthen the Caldari State and allow Heth to enact policy in a more direct and forceful manner.


In that case I will put this politely.

Your opinion, for all it is worth, has been noted.

~Malcolm Khross

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