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Where does this leave Heth?
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Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-03-27 16:31:53 UTC
Ammos Gravit wrote:
The failings of a subordinate cannot be simply passed up to the director, while he is at fault for placing those that fail in their positions, the full fault lays on many levels. The loss of one world, even Caldari Prime, is not cause for the resignation of the man who oversees the entire State.

I think you fail to understand that the central conceit of the State is that no one power can or should control all the Caldari people. The only other time it's happened it didn't work out well for them at all. Heth thinks he can defeat the Federation and secure a future for the State by emulating our worst excesses, and in emulating our worst excesses, he has certainly succeeded, but in securing a future for the State he is doomed to fail. There was no future for the State under the Ultranationalists and there will be no future for the State under Heth.

Fortunately for most of those involved, it seems that there may be very little future left for Heth. Don't you think he looks tired?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#22 - 2013-03-27 16:36:55 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I think you fail to understand that the central conceit of the State is that no one power can or should control all the Caldari people. The only other time it's happened it didn't work out well for them at all. Heth thinks he can defeat the Federation and secure a future for the State by emulating our worst excesses, and in emulating our worst excesses, he has certainly succeeded, but in securing a future for the State he is doomed to fail. There was no future for the State under the Ultranationalists and there will be no future for the State under Heth.

Fortunately for most of those involved, it seems that there may be very little future left for Heth. Don't you think he looks tired?


Thank you for your input, sir.

I would be pleased to hear more of your instruction on how to better understand the Caldari.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-03-27 16:39:00 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Thank you for your input, sir.

I would be pleased to hear more of your instruction on how to better understand the Caldari.

Do you disagree with me?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Rhiannon Dellacorte
Liberty Vanguard
#24 - 2013-03-27 16:41:03 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Thank you for your input, sir.

I would be pleased to hear more of your instruction on how to better understand the Caldari.

Do you disagree with me?


Wooooosh

Rules of Acquisition #261

A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-03-27 16:47:19 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Heth screwed up big time. Let the Caldari take care of their own house now in the State.

We got more important things to deal with, like making sure Ishukone gets any help they need on Caldari Prime.


I'm genuinely taken aback. It would seem my personal perception of you was inaccurate. Yours are indeed, wise words.


Oh, don't be a fool. This is how the Gallente work: they punch you in the face, then they say something nice. Caldari Prime wouldn't need any aid if the Gallente hadn't landed troops on it and destroyed a Titan over it.
Anslo
Scope Works
#26 - 2013-03-27 16:53:57 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Anja Suorsa wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Heth screwed up big time. Let the Caldari take care of their own house now in the State.

We got more important things to deal with, like making sure Ishukone gets any help they need on Caldari Prime.


I'm genuinely taken aback. It would seem my personal perception of you was inaccurate. Yours are indeed, wise words.


Oh, don't be a fool. This is how the Gallente work: they punch you in the face, then they say something nice. Caldari Prime wouldn't need any aid if the Gallente hadn't landed troops on it and destroyed a Titan over it.



**** off man. The government doesn't speak for me. My actions speak for me. What do your actions say about you?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-03-27 16:55:33 UTC
Anslo wrote:
**** off man. The government doesn't speak for me. My actions speak for me. What do your actions say about you?

Anslo, don't get too bent out of shape about Vikarion. This is, after all, the man who thought the Sansha's Nation were an acceptable weapon to use against the Federation.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#28 - 2013-03-27 17:00:29 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Thank you for your input, sir.

I would be pleased to hear more of your instruction on how to better understand the Caldari.

Do you disagree with me?


I fail to see how my opinion matters in this case. It is not nearly as well-informed, sir, and I doubt my capacity to fully grasp the situation.

I should, however, clarify. Neither this nor my previous statement have been sarcastic. I understand that sarcasm is a frequent tool of the Gallente, but I am not so well versed in it as to use it or make comment on its use.
Anslo
Scope Works
#29 - 2013-03-27 17:49:27 UTC
I dunno Schere...you've had some good stealth sarcasm here and there from what I've seen haha!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#30 - 2013-03-27 17:50:05 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I dunno Schere...you've had some good stealth sarcasm here and there from what I've seen haha!


I try to experiment sometimes :) But not at the moment.
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#31 - 2013-03-27 18:28:37 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
Condemning fellow Caldari - and they are fellow caldari, despite having different political ideologies - so easily makes you appear worse than the most over the top caricature of 'the evil provist'. A bit more composure might be in order.


There is nothing wrong with condemning a criminal to just punishment. This isn't a matter of ideological dispute, it is a matter of the violations of law.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-03-27 18:38:24 UTC
Since when did it become common practice for us to spew our personal opinions as bile all over the public arena? Since when has it been considered acceptable in the eyes of Caldari to mock and degrade our leaders and one another? Since when has it been considered normal for us to speak ill of our State and its leadership so openly and invite the opinions and criticisms of jaijiin into our politics?

This is disgraceful and dishonorable.

Whatever your opinion on the Executor and the State, I urge all Caldari to remember what it means to behave with discretion, decorum and duty.

~Malcolm Khross
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#33 - 2013-03-27 19:00:41 UTC
I believe, Khross-haan, we've found our disagreement.

In many cases, I would indeed favor discretion and decorum. It is, after all, unseemly to squabble like children. We'll leave that to others.

However, it is right and good to make clear one's plans, one's reasons. In the light of an Executor and a political group whose actions are increasingly outside the scope of acceptable behavior, it is right and good that we declare ourselves so that there can be no claim of treachery when we act in defense of our stated views, in accordance to the ideals we've put forward.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#34 - 2013-03-27 19:21:52 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:

There is nothing wrong with condemning a criminal to just punishment. This isn't a matter of ideological dispute, it is a matter of the violations of law.


It is not your place to adjudicate.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-03-27 19:55:36 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
I believe, Khross-haan, we've found our disagreement.

In many cases, I would indeed favor discretion and decorum. It is, after all, unseemly to squabble like children. We'll leave that to others.

However, it is right and good to make clear one's plans, one's reasons. In the light of an Executor and a political group whose actions are increasingly outside the scope of acceptable behavior, it is right and good that we declare ourselves so that there can be no claim of treachery when we act in defense of our stated views, in accordance to the ideals we've put forward.


This is not something I am opposed to. What I am opposed to, as I stated clearly, is the mocking and degrading of one another based on our differences and the outspoken calls for excessive action against the State and its leadership from those who claim to be supporters of the State.

To declare one's differences and one's principles openly is an honorable thing and speaks well of one's integrity. To then disagree with another's principles and differences with respect and decorum is also honorable.

To bicker back and forth as children and belittle the administration of the State without these traits is not honorable.

~Malcolm Khross
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#36 - 2013-03-27 20:05:50 UTC
I suppose then that we agree, unfortunately. This really is getting out of hand.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2013-03-27 22:06:57 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Fortunately for most of those involved, it seems that there may be very little future left for Heth. Don't you think he looks tired?


I think he looks like I feel.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-03-28 00:46:51 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Since when did it become common practice for us to spew our personal opinions as bile all over the public arena? Since when has it been considered acceptable in the eyes of Caldari to mock and degrade our leaders and one another?


I don't know about everyone else, but I believe that I decided to make my opinion about Heth known to the public about the time I had to open fire on State forces in defense of State citizens.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-03-28 01:02:50 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Since when did it become common practice for us to spew our personal opinions as bile all over the public arena? Since when has it been considered acceptable in the eyes of Caldari to mock and degrade our leaders and one another?


I don't know about everyone else, but I believe that I decided to make my opinion about Heth known to the public about the time I had to open fire on State forces in defense of State citizens.


Again, this is not what I was referring to, Vikarion.

Though, I would take issue your more recent posts regarding us all being played for fools by dark gods and shadowy forces, etc, etc. Another discussion for another time, perhaps.

~Malcolm Khross
Ammos Gravit
Eos Corporation
#40 - 2013-03-28 01:07:13 UTC
Anslo wrote:

**** off man. The government doesn't speak for me. My actions speak for me. What do your actions say about you?


If your government's actions do not reflect you in some way, you have have either failed in your duty as a citizen to give you knowledge and experience to your government, or you are a fool who's opinion has been disregarded.
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