These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Skill specialization gives 2% per level

Author
Whitehound
#21 - 2013-03-26 11:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
If fighting is your business then you need it, because almost everyone trains them to the level 3 and 4.

Having permanently 2% more damage from skills means one can cut the cost of losses not only by doing more damage and winning more often, but by reducing the actual cost of losses while staying competitive. 2% more damage from skills allows you to use the cheaper 3% damage implants over the expensive 5% implants. The difference between a single T2 damage mod and a faction damage mod (mag stabs, heat sinks, gyros) is also only a 3%.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#22 - 2013-03-26 12:07:40 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
If fighting is your business then you need it, because almost everyone trains them to the level 3 and 4.

Having permanently 2% more damage from skills means one can cut the cost of losses not only by doing more damage and winning more often, but by reducing the actual cost of losses while staying competitive. 2% more damage from skills allows you to use the cheaper 3% damage implants over the expensive 5% implants. The difference between a single T2 damage mod and a faction damage mod (mag stabs, heat sinks, gyros) is also only a 3%.



I like your points. Especially how having the extra 2% is almost like having a faction mod on at all times.

To be honest, that guy with maxed minmatar guns is impressive. But with the time spent he could have spec'd 4 each and every other weapon system, making him far more versatile. I know there is something to be said about being really really good at one thing. However, better then most at all things gunnery is more valuable. Be good at every fleet composition.

I like to have my cake and eat it too

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#23 - 2013-03-26 12:09:02 UTC
mentalkiller wrote:
Alternate Poster wrote:
mentalkiller wrote:
Yet they are 10000000000x

Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%?

Evil


When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why.


Wait, most of the time I either get ganked or gank somebody.
Do you really find those scenarios?

Yup. Or have escaped an attempted gank with less than 2% hull left.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-03-26 12:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
I can't count how often i won with only minimal structure left and how often i saw in local, "damn that was close only 5% structure left" when i warped my pod away. I once had only 20 HP structure left on an Algos i fought a Harpy with. I was just lucky my drones hit him before his last gun cycle hit me. There are a lot more examples i can remember, these are fights you won't forget for a long time.
Although i still don't have any 2% specs on weapons, my thermodramatics are at 5. You can't imagine the adrenaline when your Guns/MWD/point/web are at 89% or even 95% damage and you know one more heated cycle and you were done. Or the !"§$%&/())=, when you burned them out. I lost a nice Enyo in a 1vs4 because i heated my scram+web one cycle too much and the heat damage burned my AB... 5km away from a Coercer, if i had paid attention you wont' see that killmail instead you would see that one Enyo killed 2x Destroyer, 1x Jag and 1x Kestrel.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#25 - 2013-03-26 12:28:08 UTC
The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#26 - 2013-03-26 13:41:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Vilnius Zar wrote:
The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often.

Actually it happens all the time when competent pilots are involved. By that I mean correct and intelligent decisions have been made by both sides and advantage has not been gained.

At that point it boils down to 2 things:

Personal skills (by far the most important).
Cumulative trained skills (that extra 2% IN A NUMBER OF AREA's that cumulatively add up to a noticable advantage.)

IE: When you do 2% more damage AND fire 2% faster AND 2% more accurately AND 2% longer range AND 2% better resists, etc.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#27 - 2013-03-26 14:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Ranger 1 wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often.

Actually it happens all the time when competent pilots are involved. By that I mean correct and intelligent decisions have been made by both sides and advantage has not been gained.

At that point it boils down to 2 things:

Personal skills (by far the most important).
Cumulative trained skills (that extra 2% IN A NUMBER OF AREA's that cunulatively add up to a noticable advantage.)

IE: When you do 2% more damage AND fire 2% faster AND 2% more accurately AND 2% longer range AND 2% better resists, etc.


So how often does one run into competent pilots, apart from that strategy is rock paper scissors, if you have the better strategy/counter you'll win :)
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#28 - 2013-03-26 14:44:43 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
So how often does one run into competent pilots...

Not often.
But when one does, it's a memorable story. That 2% can change the ending.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#29 - 2013-03-26 15:03:30 UTC
At some point you run out of things to train besides Lvl 5's on 5x skills.

╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

Got Item?

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-03-26 18:12:18 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often.

Actually it happens all the time when competent pilots are involved. By that I mean correct and intelligent decisions have been made by both sides and advantage has not been gained.

At that point it boils down to 2 things:

Personal skills (by far the most important).
Cumulative trained skills (that extra 2% IN A NUMBER OF AREA's that cunulatively add up to a noticable advantage.)

IE: When you do 2% more damage AND fire 2% faster AND 2% more accurately AND 2% longer range AND 2% better resists, etc.


So how often does one run into competent pilots, apart from that strategy is rock paper scissors, if you have the better strategy/counter you'll win :)


Quite often, actually, depending on where you live, and where you pvp. Assuming you aren't living in 0.0 as part of some major alliance and pvping with that alliance, of course.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-03-26 18:16:31 UTC
Wow, this has got to be one of the most ******** question on the eve forums. I hope for the sake of the OP that he is trolling us.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#32 - 2013-03-26 18:50:44 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often.

Actually it happens all the time when competent pilots are involved. By that I mean correct and intelligent decisions have been made by both sides and advantage has not been gained.

At that point it boils down to 2 things:

Personal skills (by far the most important).
Cumulative trained skills (that extra 2% IN A NUMBER OF AREA's that cunulatively add up to a noticable advantage.)

IE: When you do 2% more damage AND fire 2% faster AND 2% more accurately AND 2% longer range AND 2% better resists, etc.


So how often does one run into competent pilots, apart from that strategy is rock paper scissors, if you have the better strategy/counter you'll win :)

I had a character in just such a situation last night.

Advantage and superior positioning was lost, outnumbered, out shippped, out gunned.

By the end the battle still shifted to our favor due to superior personal skills separating our adversaries efficiently (most important) and also having superior trained skills that provided the edge in either killing those that allowed themselves to be seperated in individual engagments or surviving long enough for teamwork to take it's toll (secondary importance).

Both advantages played a part, and while nothing can replace excellent personal skills... having superior learned skills can give you a nice edge, one that can be leveraged effectively.

I'm not at any point saying learned skills are more important than personal skills. In fact I often see pilots strong in learned skills defeated by newer pilots with better personal skills... however an advantage is an advantage and while diversity is fun honing a particular skill set to it's maximum potential certainly helps when flying your weapon of choice.

Again, all of those little "2%" advantages in offense and defense can add up.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Whitehound
#33 - 2013-03-26 20:50:55 UTC
Alternate Poster wrote:
mentalkiller wrote:
Yet they are 10000000000x

Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%?

Evil


When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why.

Actually that is kind of nonsense. Theoretically does every percent count, but practically does the randomness of the damage make up a large part of winning and losing. The remaining 2% of a hull is just very little when in a 1v1 someone lands a wrecking hit and the other does not.

So it makes sense to train those extra 2% for theoretical reasons, but not because you lost a fight and the other guy got away with only 2% hull left. These cases will continue to happen, with or without extra 2% of damage.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-03-26 21:02:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Malcanis wrote:
mentalkiller wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Because I'm better than you. I have the level V specializations to prove it.


Really?

http://eveboard.com/pilot/mentalkiller
212121

Give me a break


Well then shouldn't you be telling us why you trained them rather than asking?

Orr did you just buy the character hoping for pwn?


Maybe I am being unfair and a little biased here..but I saw a lot of high SP characters lately with maxed gunnery skills across the board but with hardly any SP in the rigging skills.
Maybe you thought that getting a large weapon spec from 4 to 5 was a better time investment than getting for example armor rigging from 1 to 2 - because who needs speed and agility anyway?
....don't know...
I just find it odd.
Ugh

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-03-26 21:11:59 UTC
mentalkiller wrote:

Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%?

Because when you get old in EvE it's annoying to not see a fully completed skill tree section when you look at it.
Alternate Poster
Zerious Fricken Biziness
#36 - 2013-03-27 00:00:13 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Alternate Poster wrote:
mentalkiller wrote:
Yet they are 10000000000x

Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%?

Evil


When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why.

Actually that is kind of nonsense. Theoretically does every percent count, but practically does the randomness of the damage make up a large part of winning and losing. The remaining 2% of a hull is just very little when in a 1v1 someone lands a wrecking hit and the other does not.

So it makes sense to train those extra 2% for theoretical reasons, but not because you lost a fight and the other guy got away with only 2% hull left. These cases will continue to happen, with or without extra 2% of damage.


It's only nonsense if you don't fight very often.
Practically every percent DOES count. Pfft "theoretical".
You only notice it on average though.
2% more damage means you win a couple more closely matched fights out of 100.
That's an extra couple of ships that I don't have to waste time replacing.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-03-27 00:10:27 UTC
S'Way wrote:
mentalkiller wrote:

Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%?

Because when you get old in EvE it's annoying to not see a fully completed skill tree section when you look at it.


You sound like a real bitter vet. :)
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-03-27 00:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Alternate Poster wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Alternate Poster wrote:
mentalkiller wrote:
Yet they are 10000000000x

Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%?

Evil


When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why.

Actually that is kind of nonsense. Theoretically does every percent count, but practically does the randomness of the damage make up a large part of winning and losing. The remaining 2% of a hull is just very little when in a 1v1 someone lands a wrecking hit and the other does not.

So it makes sense to train those extra 2% for theoretical reasons, but not because you lost a fight and the other guy got away with only 2% hull left. These cases will continue to happen, with or without extra 2% of damage.


It's only nonsense if you don't fight very often.
Practically every percent DOES count. Pfft "theoretical".
You only notice it on average though.
2% more damage means you win a couple more closely matched fights out of 100.
That's an extra couple of ships that I don't have to waste time replacing.


Hold on for one second. This 2% you speak of is actually 2% per level. So that is actually 10%. If your asking should I train from level 4 to 5 then you'd have more of a point, although I'd still say train it if your serious. I still think the OP has got to be a troll.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#39 - 2013-03-27 00:58:16 UTC
EvE is tailored to appeal to obsessive-compulsive types. It's really that simple.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#40 - 2013-03-27 01:14:30 UTC
My violence levels are 2% higher than the other scrubs that don't spec to 5!

Idea

Previous page123Next page