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New drone agro mechanic how does it work?
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Kestutis Fujika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-03-26 18:05:04 UTC
I kind confused with this new mechanic. I read that mission npc become something similar to sleepers , but in most cases no matter how much ewar or remote repair modules i use they mostly ignore me. Maybe anyone can advise what modules i can use to generate agro? And here comes tricky part i dont use turret since(max i can fit are Hm anyway) i fly pure 2xrr domies.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#2 - 2013-03-26 22:30:40 UTC
If you're using Sentries just pull them in/out, it takes a second and it should shake off the aggro. I think repping your sentries also helps, but I'm not sure, haven't really used sentry boats in L4s since the patch.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2013-03-27 03:40:03 UTC
I find that if I have high DPS (Tengu + Rattlesnake), the NPC will completely ignore my drones.

However if I don't (just Rattlesnake), then I just rep my drones until the NPC switch targets. Works great.

I find that once I have had agro for a while, I can use my drones with impunity. Typically at this point I just switch from sentries to ogre II and let them clean everything up, including frigates.
Kestutis Fujika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-03-27 11:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kestutis Fujika
Problem i dont have any turrets skill to out dps.Getting rep with remote dont have much it just take too long and missions become very long even simple one like blocade.
Space Scooterman
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-04-01 17:45:28 UTC
Target painters are decent at holding aggro, but no matter what you do, it's going to switch. I use a PWNAGE on my navy domi and just pull sentries when they take aggro.
Baggo Hammers
#6 - 2013-04-01 18:18:18 UTC
OP should be doing level 3s.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Necranom
Hazard.
#7 - 2013-04-01 18:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Necranom
In a Domi I'd advise just keeping range and using the drone's outstanding projection to great effect. The new MJD really is amazing and affords the slowboat Domi to jump around like crazy (if you use a bit of forethought you can jump at angles that will put you at or around 100km from the next acceleration gate.

Edit: Although I do agree that RR and Ewar will aid in distracting the npcs up close which combined with good micromanagement skills will take you a long way towards proper aggro management.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#8 - 2013-04-01 19:01:54 UTC
Only certain NPCs shoot certain drones currently.

Light drones will get attacked by frigates
Medium drones will get attacked by cruisers, destroyers and frigates
Heavy/Sentry drones will get attacked by every type of NPC.

I haven't tested it out much so I'm not certain how this goes for the sentry/missile towers. Enemies will mostly try to target ships/drones of the same size as themselves, so if you were dualboxing with a cruiser/battleship the smaller enemy ships should in theory focus the cruiser while the bigger ships will try to attack the battleships.

There are still aggro mechanics, but they work in a different from what they used to, but it's not like aggro from games like WoW where only the one with largest aggro pool will get attacked. NPCs will also switch aggro randomly to some extent, so your drones will get targeted at some point no matter what you do (unless you use ECM on all the NPCs...).
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2013-04-01 19:41:25 UTC
Midslot ECM Burst.

Light it the instant you land on grid, before launching drones and keep it running the whole time.
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#10 - 2013-04-01 21:08:14 UTC
Magnets ! How do they work ?!?!?
Capt Sephiroth
#11 - 2013-04-01 22:26:49 UTC
Ok this is what I gathered from doing lots of missions solo in my rattlesnake, I have a single light missile launcher fitted since my missile skills are not yet there to be useful and use that for agro pulling, and it works even if they can't reach the designated target, the only important thing is that I used that module. Also what I have learned is that only certain npc's will switch to your drones usually they never do if you have the agro. I have never yet met a bs class that switched agro from me to my sentry drones, not once. I have met certain cruiser and destroyer sized ships that liked switching to my sentry drones however elite frigs, the only ones that switch to your light drones, never did the switch.

That being said when confronted with them actually attacking your sentries you need to pull them in and wait for them to switch back to you then you are safe for around a min or so before they switch again to your sentry drones, concerning light drones and elite frigs, I memorized by now which are elite drones so when its time to pop them up I just get my drones out then wait for frigs to switch and then pull them back in, then when they switch back you can safely get your light drones back out and start killing them, as mentioned earlier it takes them about 1 min or so before they switch again to your drones by which time they should be dead anyway. If you like micromanaging and are not bothered by it you can use your sentry drones to tank for you and not receive a single damage point in some missions. I like doing that for example against drones or Guristas in some missions since you can pull them all in when you see the missiles coming and then wait for 2-3 secs before pulling them back out since some of the bigger classes of ships have not yet finished their targeting and if you just immediately pop them out they will get targeted asap and get fired upon. The killing order should always be from smallest to biggest since smaller ones lock your sentries faster, when confronting bs sized ships it takes them around 20 secs to lock on your sentry so you can effectively fire 4-5 salvos before having to bring them back in. Another way to do this is watching which drone has the agro and only scooping her while leaving 4 out to continue with dps, but doing this can be annoying to some people so I will not guess many will be trying this out.

Also I have not bothered with rr in high's since in my experience of months of mission running I have yet to come up to a mission where that would actually be useful over other modules.

Those were my 2 cents, I hope you found them beneficial.

Best of luck

Capt
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#12 - 2013-04-02 11:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Kosetzu wrote:
Only certain NPCs shoot certain drones currently.

Light drones will get attacked by frigates
Medium drones will get attacked by cruisers, destroyers and frigates
Heavy/Sentry drones will get attacked by every type of NPC..


This is a complete lie, but I understand you might have believed it. A lot of people fell for it. Sadly, it simply is not true. At all.

New drone AI is simple:

Every rat on the screen, regardless of their size, will instant lock any drones you launch (also regardless of size) immediately upon launch and begin mass alpha strikes upon them until all are destroyed.

That's really all there is to it. Rumors that ECM or target painters being used to pull aggro off drones are empty theories, as I've tried both and neither has worked with any reliability.

On the plus side, the "death to all drones" patch has meant that drone boats no longer have to worry about having any tank at all of their own, just so long as they can keep the flow of light drones going to soak all the aggro for them.

However... there is a new kind of exploit that can be used to turn every mission rat into a laughing stock, if you've got enough people and do it right. Whenever a new player enters the area it treats them like drones; meaning every rat drops whatever it was doing and targets the new player. If you get a train of people in rookie ships showing up and warping back out at about thirty second intervals then the rats will never again be able to target your actual high DPS mission running ship again.

CCP: "Working as intended."

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Holgrak Blacksmith
Prophets of Motav
#13 - 2013-04-02 18:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Holgrak Blacksmith
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:
Only certain NPCs shoot certain drones currently.

Light drones will get attacked by frigates
Medium drones will get attacked by cruisers, destroyers and frigates
Heavy/Sentry drones will get attacked by every type of NPC..


This is a complete lie, but I understand you might have believed it. A lot of people fell for it. Sadly, it simply is not true. At all.

New drone AI is simple:

Every rat on the screen, regardless of their size, will instant lock any drones you launch (also regardless of size) immediately upon launch and begin mass alpha strikes upon them until all are destroyed.

That's really all there is to it. Rumors that ECM or target painters being used to pull aggro off drones are empty theories, as I've tried both and neither has worked with any reliability.

On the plus side, the "death to all drones" patch has meant that drone boats no longer have to worry about having any tank at all of their own, just so long as they can keep the flow of light drones going to soak all the aggro for them.

However... there is a new kind of exploit that can be used to turn every mission rat into a laughing stock, if you've got enough people and do it right. Whenever a new player enters the area it treats them like drones; meaning every rat drops whatever it was doing and targets the new player. If you get a train of people in rookie ships showing up and warping back out at about thirty second intervals then the rats will never again be able to target your actual high DPS mission running ship again.

CCP: "Working as intended."


This also is a huge lie.

I use sentry drones, I find that most of the time rats completely ignore my sentries, however, if they do go for them then they will tend to do so throughout the entire anom.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#14 - 2013-04-03 01:54:19 UTC
Well lucky you, but you're claiming something works for everyone simply because it works for you. I'm claiming that it does not work for everyone because it doesn't work for me. Scientifically speaking, which of these two claims can actually be proven?

I've posted a screenshot of a group of non-elite rat battleships doing mass-aggro on a flight of light drones. I have disproved the "target by size" lie that CCP told everyone right there. Do I have to add video as well? I could, but I get the feeling you'll just discount it along with any other evidence that doesn't fit your beliefs that the entire game equals your own, personal experiences.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#15 - 2013-04-03 02:57:50 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Well lucky you, but you're claiming something works for everyone simply because it works for you. I'm claiming that it does not work for everyone because it doesn't work for me. Scientifically speaking, which of these two claims can actually be proven?

I've posted a screenshot of a group of non-elite rat battleships doing mass-aggro on a flight of light drones. I have disproved the "target by size" lie that CCP told everyone right there. Do I have to add video as well? I could, but I get the feeling you'll just discount it along with any other evidence that doesn't fit your beliefs that the entire game equals your own, personal experiences.

I've never had my light drones get targeted by anything except frigates, and medium only by cruiser and below, so for me that's how it has seemed (except incursions but they are different). I guess it looks different depending on your 'luck', as I've never had light drones get shot at from battleships. I haven't done missions in a year or so, so I can accept that it's different from what I 'falsely claimed'.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#16 - 2013-04-03 08:26:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Shpenat
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:
Only certain NPCs shoot certain drones currently.

Light drones will get attacked by frigates
Medium drones will get attacked by cruisers, destroyers and frigates
Heavy/Sentry drones will get attacked by every type of NPC..


This is a complete lie, but I understand you might have believed it. A lot of people fell for it. Sadly, it simply is not true. At all.

New drone AI is simple:

Every rat on the screen, regardless of their size, will instant lock any drones you launch (also regardless of size) immediately upon launch and begin mass alpha strikes upon them until all are destroyed.

That's really all there is to it. Rumors that ECM or target painters being used to pull aggro off drones are empty theories, as I've tried both and neither has worked with any reliability.

On the plus side, the "death to all drones" patch has meant that drone boats no longer have to worry about having any tank at all of their own, just so long as they can keep the flow of light drones going to soak all the aggro for them.

However... there is a new kind of exploit that can be used to turn every mission rat into a laughing stock, if you've got enough people and do it right. Whenever a new player enters the area it treats them like drones; meaning every rat drops whatever it was doing and targets the new player. If you get a train of people in rookie ships showing up and warping back out at about thirty second intervals then the rats will never again be able to target your actual high DPS mission running ship again.

CCP: "Working as intended."


I am not aware about any statement from CCP that large ships will not engage small drones. They only stated, that sig radius plays a role in aggro mechanism. linky. Neither did CCP stated that using ewar will force aggro off your drones.

EDIT Link to CCP Fozzie comment
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#17 - 2013-04-03 13:52:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Shpenat wrote:
I am not aware about any statement from CCP that large ships will not engage small drones. They only stated, that sig radius plays a role in aggro mechanism.


It made the patch notes a few days after the second link you posted.

Quote:

NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.

  • Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
  • Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
  • Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.



(Edit: And for what it's worth, my experience has been consistent with those rules, though I've only used light drones and salvage drones.)
Keilateau Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#18 - 2013-04-03 14:08:46 UTC
My experience is that every group* of mission NPCs will switch to their respective class of drones** once and after that keep the aggro on the player's ship.

* A "group" is not the same as a "spawn". By "group" I mean a cluster of NPCs that can be aggroed independently. Each spawn (initial, first, second, etc. ..)

** frigs go for light drones and up, cruisers/battlecruisers for medium drones and up, battleships go for heavy drones. Batteries will attack all sizes.
Kestutis Fujika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-04-03 14:25:39 UTC
To what group do sentrys belong? Large/heavy?
Keilateau Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#20 - 2013-04-03 14:27:49 UTC
Kestutis Fujika wrote:
To what group do sentrys belong? Large/heavy?

Heavy. But good that you mention it - I have seen all sizes of NPCs aggroing my sentries. Again - only once. After I scooped them up and released after all aggro went to my ship - no more aggro from anything on the sentries.
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