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What to pick for L4's?
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Aggrofighter
Ghost Pirates
#1 - 2013-03-26 11:33:36 UTC
Hey guys,

I came back after a little break from eve. Just to find out I sold all my ships (dunno why I did that though)

So, my Question now is:

What to Pick for L4's? I used to fly my Tengu with around 800 dps and a stable tank in every Missionpocket.

But: since they nerfed Heavy Missiles I'm not quite sure if this is still a good choice? I can't use HAMS, and I won't train for it, since i stopped the caldari training.

My thoughts were, a Marauder? But which one? Vargur, Kronos or Golem?
Any Ideas? (Skillset aside, I will train whatever I need for those ships, no probs)

Tell me about your experiences please!

DPS vs. Tank on each of those ships would be cool as well... never used a Marauder before, but now
I kinda want to!

Please help a brother out :D
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-03-26 11:57:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
here is a list of the best mission ships (sorted from best to worst in my personal opinion):
Machariel, Nightmare, Vindicator, Navy Dominix, Rattlesnake, Vargur, CNR, Tengu, Paladin, Golem, Maelstrom

pick one that fits your skill set and your wallet.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-03-26 12:19:40 UTC
Confirming that Daniel's list is full of awesome. I personally prefer the Vindi, because it melts stuff up close, but any of those will do.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#4 - 2013-03-26 13:42:57 UTC
I would quibble about the ORDER of that list, and the inclusion of the Maelstrom, but the ships on it are otherwise acceptable.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#5 - 2013-03-26 14:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kodama Ikari
tengu is still a beautiful choice with excellent missile skills. 700 dps at 65km with furies and excellent speed, agility, and the option to permatank, omnitank, or fit target painters is quite nice. The lower dps compared to battleships means it tends to favor blitzable missions.

As for the vindicator, it doesn't appeal to me much as a mission ship. It has abysmal lock range that makes other hulls look better for railguns. With blasters I imagine it has projection issues, and armor tanking competes for lows with tracking enhancers. The only thing that springs to my mind for general use of this ship is some kind of pithum a-type shield setup with 3x tracking enhancers. If I was a serious mission runner and knew which missions it was good for, I might use an armor/blaster version for certain missions.

Mach is king, but Vargur has some good points, like getting the falloff bonus of the mach without giving up the tanking ability, also half ammo use is nice since autocannon ships chew through ammo and this makes faction ammo a more reasonable option.

I would not advise using the golem unless you want to live in target-painter, volley-counting micromanagement hell.

Some first-hand PI tips
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-03-26 14:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
if you have ISK growing on trees, you can squeeze a shield tank and a SeBo on the vindi which will basically make it a railgun version of the nightmare.

I should buy an Ishtar.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-03-26 14:43:56 UTC
Tengu's been gimped. You're now down to 700 dps kinetic and 550 dps everything else.

Vinidi shouldn't be on that list. Blaster dps don't translate in missions. Rails are gimpy, especially with your 50km base locking range, or 60km with max skills. You'll have to waste slots on sebos. It's got 5 mids too few for tank after prop, cap booster, and sebos are in, if you shield tank. 7 lows, meaning 3 instead of 4 dmg mods if you armor tank. Suboptimal for missioning all around.

Vargur should rank right behind Mach. It's gank only slightly lower, slightly slower than Mach, but faster than everything else.

Dominix and Rattler should not be ranked above boats like Vargur and Paladin. Yes, there are better versions of both, but still far better than droneboats. And yes, Dominix can be 1k dps on paper, but it doesn't translate. There is EFT, and then there is Eve.

MJD is no good for gate travel, and sniping is slow for rat grinding.

I have max skill on all listed boats, and have used all. EFT only tells so much, some works, other don't.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-03-26 15:25:17 UTC
Flew a Vargur quite a bit and I have nothing but good things to say about it. Its got the dps, range, and tank with the added bonus of being able to loot/salvage which doesn't add more time to missions as long as you only harvest large wrecks. Shoot one group and salvage the other. Its beautiful.
Kryxal
Wing Born Echos
#9 - 2013-03-26 16:54:38 UTC
The Nightmare seems pretty high up on the list ... do you have to stick to Sansha/BR missions for it or see a big drop in applied DPS?
sixth sense
#10 - 2013-03-26 16:58:27 UTC
It depends on what you are flying against, but generally look at #2 post
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-03-26 20:59:41 UTC
Kryxal wrote:
The Nightmare seems pretty high up on the list ... do you have to stick to Sansha/BR missions for it or see a big drop in applied DPS?

serpentis are "ok" but nothing to write home about. angels die slowly but surely. guristas are pure agony.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#12 - 2013-03-26 22:50:21 UTC
Yeah, Guristas missions are really bad for the Nightmare, but it burns through Sansha/BR like butter. You can instavolley everything below BS.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#13 - 2013-03-27 08:28:24 UTC
Re: The Nightmare

You can pretty reliably do any pirates that aren't Angels with it. For just about everything, thermal is the second best damage type to do. Fit the closer range crystals which do more thermal/less EM and you can do Guristas... but it is better to have a backup ship.

I do keep a Maelstrom on hand for Angels and a CNR for Guristas... but where I mission it is almost exclusively BR/Sansha. None of the above ships will excel against all of the pirates. Even the "mighty" Machariel has trouble doing Kinetic damage. it can do it, but it takes about 30% damage loss to fit its kinetic ammo, and it is kin/exp and not pure kin.

There is no real 'king' of missioning, all the listed ships are good at something, and any of them can be used for missions.
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#14 - 2013-03-27 10:55:52 UTC
There is no right/end-all answer to your question. Years ago when runing lvl4s I finally gave in and got a Golem, turns out it was the best decsisson I could have made if you are lazy in PvE like myself since you can swap the needed damage type on the fly (no pun intended) without having to go get mutliple ships.

Key to make it work back than was to not stupidly overtank it and fit minimum 2, best case 3 TPs to get the max out of the torpedoes. Faction bcu+tp-ed DPS tops out at well over 1200 and most of it you will be able to apply. The TPs should also help a lot in keeping these annoying little elite frigs off your drones.

Mind you I haven't run lvl4s in a long time since my old main is currently unsubbed but hearing that torps got a bit of a buff last patch and if you have the the skills you need to fly/fit everything that may be the best choice for a true all-in-one ship.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#15 - 2013-03-29 16:07:52 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
here is a list of the best mission ships (sorted from best to worst in my personal opinion):
Machariel, Nightmare, Vindicator, Navy Dominix, Rattlesnake, Vargur, CNR, Tengu, Paladin, Golem, Maelstrom

pick one that fits your skill set and your wallet.


No love for the Kronos?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#16 - 2013-03-30 00:02:39 UTC
Kronos does ok against angels, guristas, and serps. Since the hybrid buff it's tracking has gotten much better and you can get it to about 950 DPS pretty easily.

Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#17 - 2013-03-30 00:17:44 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
if you have ISK growing on trees, you can squeeze a shield tank and a SeBo on the vindi which will basically make it a railgun version of the nightmare.

With all the mids taken up by shield stuff I doubt you would have the tracking of the nightmare though.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#18 - 2013-03-30 02:18:27 UTC
Well back before the Great Drone Nerfing I used to solo L4s in my trusty Myrmidon all the time. To this day I find it ironic that CCP would bother putting an armor repair bonus on a ship that can easily be fit to over 400hp/sec passive shield regeneration and still have room for an adaptive field generator.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#19 - 2013-03-30 22:31:29 UTC
Arcosian wrote:
Kronos does ok against angels, guristas, and serps. Since the hybrid buff it's tracking has gotten much better and you can get it to about 950 DPS pretty easily.




I know the viability of it, I fly one. Probably my favourite ship to use at the moment because it has the right combination of DPS output/tank/range and utility and can comfortably fit just about everything you need.

I'm just surprised that some really subpar ships got mentioned and not it.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#20 - 2013-03-31 21:41:37 UTC
Mach and nightmare are for sure 1 and 2. as for the nightmare and damage type, I pretty much think so what. most of the gurista missions I see are blitzable or have mostly small stuff. I probably wouldn't fly it in minmatar space though, going through angels extra isn't too bad with it, it at least feels faster than doing it with a tengu. I haven't kept times in a while, I just remember the mach being way faster than anything else in AE.

this is my vindi setup, imo it beats the kronos for pretty much everything (well maybe not EA as you want the loot, don't think it will kill fast enough that you can go get the noctis come back clean up and be faster). It very much deserves a place reasonably high on the list. and I really do want to try a blaster setup on something like damsel.

[Vindicator, New Setup 3]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Ionic Field Projector I
[empty rig slot]


Warden II x4
Hobgoblin II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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