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EvE Online: Odyssey!!!

First post
Author
Arronicus
Caldari Navy Reconnaissance
#381 - 2013-03-25 19:23:42 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Should you be required to manually calculate and enter the entry vectors and co-ordinates before you can warp jump? I'm sure it would be pretty challenging, and forgetting to carry a digit could land you inside a sun or something. But would it be FUN? Would it be challenging? Or would this be more of the same tedious busy-work that you've done a million times, and it ceased to be any real challenge 999,937 uses ago?



At first I thought, haha that sounds pretty sweet. I'd enjoy that. But then I realized, I'm mostly bored of the game, and would probably only be entertained by that the first few times. Then, as I got bored of doing so, and as the 99 out of 100 players who don't ENJOY doing math, and many of which who are completely incapable of doing anything beyond basic arithmetic, quit Eve, I think it would probably be for the worse.

+1 for letting Eve do our warp calculations for us.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#382 - 2013-03-25 19:26:59 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


But one has to hit it constantly, as the 'situation in system' can change....constantly. There is no 'fix' for that reality.
Sure there is. A scanning alt with combat probes.



Still must be hit constantly....as the situation can change constantly. In microseconds.

One second, surely - in keeping with the time hacks on the servers. P
The point is, when you'd d-scanning for intruders, and you're facing a skilled combat-prober, D-Scan might never save you. You may never see the enemy until they land on your grid. And D-scan range is somewhat limilted

But a cloaky scanning alt can cover the entire system with ease unless it's one of those truly humongous 128-AU monsters - Even then, your alt can cover a very large globe around you - And can plausibly cover it such that the intruders may not even know they've been detected. They set up to scan, but you're already ahead of their knowledge curve, and have less to do - all you have to do is vacate, cloak, or safe-up. They may find some wrecks in a partially-completed site, but where are you? They certainly don't know!
Twisted

OK, so you've got to ping the probes every thirty to forty seconds - still a vast improvement and less paranoia-inducing than hitting D-scan every ten seconds - with better situational awareness, to boot.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#383 - 2013-03-25 19:35:59 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Also, the scan itself is pretty heavily limited by its weak implementation (lack of FoF filter, for instance).
Know your friends. Or have them put a tag in their ship titles that identifies them.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#384 - 2013-03-25 20:39:12 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Okay, here is a rough example of how it "could" be handled.

I'm sitting in a belt mining. I turn on my ships proximity sensors which will scan a couple of AU out every few seconds. If I stay aligned to something I should have enough time to get out if I get a blip that looks like trouble. If I'm caught in the middle of changing alignment or sitting still I'm very likely to get ganked.

I'm looking for miners to gank so I warp to a point perhaps 5 AU (out of proximity scan range) out from a likely belt and use my ship sensors to do a focused (and longer range) scan of that belt. If I choose to I can sit there and wait to get a blip (by leaving the scanner running) or I can move to 5AU of the next most likely belt.

I'm hunting an enemy fleet somewhere in this system. They are at none of the likely spots and we have probes out covering wide area's a space with no hits so far. I decide to send a probe to each planet in system as it is likely they are hanging out next to a celestial body that is masking thier presence It will take a while, but eventually they will be found. If this doesn't produce results then I next send my probes to the various moons, and eventually even to anomolies or dead space area's in system.

Note that ship sensors would not give you a precise warp in point, so no automatcially getting on top of the target with them if they are sniping. However probes would provide a warp in, but would take longer (especially near a celestial object that would interfere with scan time and accuracy of your probes. Also, some probes could be used to scan broad area's while others are used to scan specifically around celestial objects and the interference the throw out. Similar to what we have now, but more intuitive and if proper defensive steps are taken could take longer.




I think that could work. Any kind of radar would work actually.

In keeping with "consequences", I would be happy to sacrifice a high slot for that kind of sensor sweep. Maybe use that instead of a cloak.

A module-based approach would allow for skill sets directly related to the modules involved, along with auxiliary skills, to enhance the range of such a detection system. So perhaps for some people, they are ready to put in time and modules for extra protection, and those who, using the miner example, wishing to ISK-snatch and would in no way do anything not related to more yield, are more easily jumped.

It would also be good for those who might sacrifice DPS for such a module, having to rely on their skills even more to get better DPS out of the remaining hard points.

A module that can sensor sweep combined in use with the micro jump would be a good cat and mouse tool, whereby if we are in a situation where staying aligned is not practical or possible (or the cloaked scout sees you are not aligned and tells the tackler to warp in and make the move) a short jump 100KM from where the threat is warping into might buy a chance for survival.


Overall the whole D-Scan topic is one of those survival matters in this game whereby we have to deal with the "inevitability of being ganked" versus "the chance of being ganked". Prior to the current scan mechanics (old times) you only had to deal with getting caught at gates. The change in scan mechanics ended low-sec mission running because experienced players could get around those gate camps, but in the kill everything that moves genre of play style, lowsec became the parking lot of the shopping mall in "Dawn of the Dead" because just about anybody gets scanned down. The change in the scanning mechanics and no change in the mission profile saw to this end, while those who did the killing now complain about a lack of targets - hence you can make a video game with consequences, but you can't some players to realize that it even exists at all.


Most of the time any talk of automated D-Scan usually comes with the topic of removing local, whereby most people agree that the removal of local should require automated D-scan capabilities because the more hardcore of nullsec player will go mad mashing a button every couple of seconds (surprisingly there's a lack of the same complaint while being in a fleet simply hitting F1 on a monotonous succession of primaries but I digress).

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Pelea Ming
Fliegenbub Industries
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#385 - 2013-03-25 22:56:02 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Okay, here is a rough example of how it "could" be handled.

I'm sitting in a belt mining. I turn on my ships proximity sensors which will scan a couple of AU out every few seconds. If I stay aligned to something I should have enough time to get out if I get a blip that looks like trouble. If I'm caught in the middle of changing alignment or sitting still I'm very likely to get ganked.

I'm looking for miners to gank so I warp to a point perhaps 5 AU (out of proximity scan range) out from a likely belt and use my ship sensors to do a focused (and longer range) scan of that belt. If I choose to I can sit there and wait to get a blip (by leaving the scanner running) or I can move to 5AU of the next most likely belt.

I'm hunting an enemy fleet somewhere in this system. They are at none of the likely spots and we have probes out covering wide area's a space with no hits so far. I decide to send a probe to each planet in system as it is likely they are hanging out next to a celestial body that is masking thier presence It will take a while, but eventually they will be found. If this doesn't produce results then I next send my probes to the various moons, and eventually even to anomolies or dead space area's in system.

Note that ship sensors would not give you a precise warp in point, so no automatcially getting on top of the target with them if they are sniping. However probes would provide a warp in, but would take longer (especially near a celestial object that would interfere with scan time and accuracy of your probes. Also, some probes could be used to scan broad area's while others are used to scan specifically around celestial objects and the interference the throw out. Similar to what we have now, but more intuitive and if proper defensive steps are taken could take longer.




I think that could work. Any kind of radar would work actually.

In keeping with "consequences", I would be happy to sacrifice a high slot for that kind of sensor sweep. Maybe use that instead of a cloak.

A module-based approach would allow for skill sets directly related to the modules involved, along with auxiliary skills, to enhance the range of such a detection system. So perhaps for some people, they are ready to put in time and modules for extra protection, and those who, using the miner example, wishing to ISK-snatch and would in no way do anything not related to more yield, are more easily jumped.

It would also be good for those who might sacrifice DPS for such a module, having to rely on their skills even more to get better DPS out of the remaining hard points.

A module that can sensor sweep combined in use with the micro jump would be a good cat and mouse tool, whereby if we are in a situation where staying aligned is not practical or possible (or the cloaked scout sees you are not aligned and tells the tackler to warp in and make the move) a short jump 100KM from where the threat is warping into might buy a chance for survival.



----Deleted the sections i did not agree with, the rest, I would enjoy seeing something done with----
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#386 - 2013-03-26 00:04:06 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
That's why I was referring to making it something that you don't have to click on constantly -- i.e. automation -- but does require thinking.


and what sort of "thinking" does the current system require other than "mindlessly click the same button over and over"?


It doesn't "require" any - you can mindlessly scan all sigs in any system, but it does respond to some thinking, interpretation of id plates, ignoring certain unknowns even when hunting for 3/10s on the same band, setting probes to particular initial distances, remembering where all the red dots were so you can wave a set of 2aus around and get 10 or so sigs done in a couple of mins etc.

Tthe highsec vision of it, where 95% of highsec systems have 1-3 sigs, is very different to the WH and highsec islands where there might be 10-30 sigs, and multiple valuable sigs.

The main thing that it lacks is environmental influences - ie the probes work exactly the same in every system, so there is no advantage to being a local, and there is no adjusting of method required other than triage on results.

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#387 - 2013-03-26 01:56:02 UTC
Tauranon wrote:

... remembering where all the red dots were so you can wave a set of 2aus around and get 10 or so sigs done in a couple of mins etc.

Who needs memory? Park one probe in the center set to max range, and leave it there. You'll be able to see the proximity of the sites as you 'wave' your active group about without having to worry about missing any.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Tesal
#388 - 2013-03-26 02:08:45 UTC
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:
some video of the Pax event

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo0vbusruT0&list=HL1364111344

theme is exploration..

around 2:00 Goodbye Passive income

ShockedCoolLolLol

directed at CFC & HBC I guess?


He mentioned an industry re-balance for null.
Aidan Patrick
Aldebaran Foundation
#389 - 2013-03-26 02:24:54 UTC
Didn't have time to read pages 19 & 20 right now but.....

Pelea Ming wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
In Space No One Can Hear Your Siren
By that reasoning, we shouldn't hear the turret sounds of other ships when we set camera on them :P


Actually, if I remember correctly... I believe one of the tech chronicles explained that the sound capsuleers hear is essentially computer generated auditory effects to help keep them sane or something.

Pelea Ming wrote:
meh, so they call them something besides tiers now, the concept of the tiers for the hulls still exists, lol, and I hope that they also make Navy versions of the tier 1 hulls, too, just cause that could be fun :)


Nope. If you look at the balance chart the "tiericide" initiative is about moving all ships of a class to (Say Battlecruisers) to only require BC1 instead of requiring 1, 2 & 3 and giving each one different bonuses to help them be more filled to a role. This means get level 1 and you can use the ship you want immediately but its performance is still based on your skill level.

Sylvia Nardieu wrote:
... What I'd like to see would be a Deep space combat scanner probe, one which would reveal all ships in system without 'ghost' signatures (just the numbers, not positions mind you). ...


This is already in place. Just disable all of your probes except one and max-range it. The reason you get ghost signatures is because that signature is in the range of more than one probe. When I am in WH space I keep a full set of probes out except disable all but one and cycle that probes scan at the same rate as DSCAN. This allows you to keep alert of both ships and new WH signatures simultaneously. If you're OK with using more screen space you can make a filter on the probe that shows ships and signatures.

Keep in mind the probe technique I just outlined is best used when you already have every signature in your WH/System scanned out and you are keeping track of their unique identifiers. IE, you need to be able to recognize that a signature hasn't been scanned when you get your results. This is mainly helpful for inbound K-162's. I just hope the new mechanics don't disable that type of tactic.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I must say, thank you CCP for taking exploration into consideration for the next great expansion.

A lot of people will hope for ships that are specifically geared for exploration. Please review the old threads regarding the concept work of Nova Fox and their popularity. It's time the exploration profession "got their ship".


Yes. I really want a cruiser sized or higher hull that is entirely dedicated to Exploration. Mainly I just want an Arbitrator hull with probing bonuses. That would make me extremely happy.

It wont let me have an empty signature...

Callic Veratar
#390 - 2013-03-26 02:48:57 UTC
Not reading 20 pages of thread to see if anyone said there was a picture of faction battlecruisers: Republic Fleet Hurricane, Federation Navy Brutix, Caldari Navy Drake, and Imperial Navy Harbinger.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#391 - 2013-03-26 02:57:28 UTC
Aidan Patrick wrote:

Yes. I really want a cruiser sized or higher hull that is entirely dedicated to Exploration. Mainly I just want an Arbitrator hull with probing bonuses. That would make me extremely happy.


Then you will want a Gnosis.

Jesters article and pic of ship bonuses http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2013/01/gnosis.html

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Baggo Hammers
#392 - 2013-03-26 03:01:11 UTC
Been playing with the Gnosis. Weird boat. I love the bonuses and have fit it with missiles, ACs and Blasters. All work to some degree. Tough to fit an Expanded Probe Launcher without help though. Should be interesting.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.

Pelea Ming
Fliegenbub Industries
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#393 - 2013-03-26 03:12:32 UTC
Aidan Patrick wrote:

Pelea Ming wrote:
meh, so they call them something besides tiers now, the concept of the tiers for the hulls still exists, lol, and I hope that they also make Navy versions of the tier 1 hulls, too, just cause that could be fun :)


Nope. If you look at the balance chart the "tiericide" initiative is about moving all ships of a class to (Say Battlecruisers) to only require BC1 instead of requiring 1, 2 & 3 and giving each one different bonuses to help them be more filled to a role. This means get level 1 and you can use the ship you want immediately but its performance is still based on your skill level.


My meaning is, the different 'tiers' for some of us are still there in that the basic principle behind which that hull was originally set at that tier still exists, if your going to try to nitpick what I have to stay, back off from attempting to take me so literally and read the intentions within my words.
Gnoshia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#394 - 2013-03-26 03:30:11 UTC
Take it to the RP forums RP'ers.

Aidan Patrick
Aldebaran Foundation
#395 - 2013-03-26 04:36:53 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Aidan Patrick wrote:

Yes. I really want a cruiser sized or higher hull that is entirely dedicated to Exploration. Mainly I just want an Arbitrator hull with probing bonuses. That would make me extremely happy.


Then you will want a Gnosis.

Jesters article and pic of ship bonuses http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2013/01/gnosis.html


I don't remember it having that set of bonuses... Nor it being seeded on the test server... Now that is definitely a ship I would LOVE to explore in.

Honestly though what I desire the most is a non-combat exploration mechanic that involves scanning/probing anomalies, planets, moons etc and gathering samples. All relatively low cargo requirements and relatively low profit, but no combat is required. Maybe a chance to get artifacts that only fill a purpose of revealing tiny snippets of EVE lore and can't be auto-linked or found on the market, API database etc etc so that exploration can truly yield answers to the deepest mysteries of EVE.

I could even imagine new technologies being seeded through that exploration mechanic that would enable discovery BY PLAYERS. Then down the road throw that mechanic in with being able to EVA from your ship like the trailer that showed them discovering the sleeper implant technology that is now used for soldiers in Dust.

Mmmm... Dreams.

It wont let me have an empty signature...

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#396 - 2013-03-26 08:36:33 UTC
Oh sorry, i stepped in and bumped..
Tiger Armani
End-Game
#397 - 2013-03-26 08:42:26 UTC
I would like to see some modularity in all ships not just in T3s.

Maybe just option two swap one high slot to medium etc. That way you couldn't always exactly know what fits enemy is using.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#398 - 2013-03-26 09:08:20 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Quote:
A re-imagined scanning system, intuitive navigation and new exploration modules will aid you as you search the heavens for your next conquest.


you have my attention, ccp.


click the button, watch fancy but useless graphics, get result 10 seconds later?

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Dave Stark
#399 - 2013-03-26 09:14:14 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Quote:
A re-imagined scanning system, intuitive navigation and new exploration modules will aid you as you search the heavens for your next conquest.


you have my attention, ccp.


click the button, watch fancy but useless graphics, get result 10 seconds later?


10?

better train those skils...
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#400 - 2013-03-26 09:33:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:

click the button, watch fancy but useless graphics, get result 10 seconds later?


10?

better train those skils...


Can't, my 5 years training plan isn't finished, yet.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.