Crime & Punishment

On average, level 3s don't even come close. Rewards for Level 4s are better than mining.

Well my hats off to you New Order. You gave good advice to a person who sincerely asked, answered all his questions well and did so respectfully.

I understand that Skiff would be more perferable mining ship for a lot of people due to the high amount of eHP. But what about Mackinaw, how is this ship viewed by the gankers? If I'm mining in a similar system (0.5) as op in a Mack, would I have a high chance of getting ganked.

I think the Mackinaw is the most common exhumer killed by our agents in the New Order. Hulks are easier to kill but are less commonly seen.


Your chance of getting ganked is inversely proportional to the amount of attention you are paying to your surroundings. If you are aligned at all times and warp out as soon as 2 or more destroyers land on grid, you will get away. If you aren't aligned but watch D-scan, you'll get away unless you are in an Orca. (Fielding one of those with no defenses is silly, especially when a 15m Exequeror fit can provide massive remote repairs to buy your whale time for CONCORD to arrive, or when an ECM boat can achieve the same goal.)

I have three tips for you mining in your Retriever:

1) mine with a group of hulks/mackinaws/covetors, they are much juicier targets
2) mine in belts where concord have already spawned from a gank
3) stick to your 0.8 and above, hardly worth going for a retriever there

Couple of corrections to the quoted post:
If you're the miner with a decent tank in a belt full of miners with little or tank, they'll go for the easier targets before they go for you, unless they're there specifically for you.

Being aligned to a celestial will do you no favours unless you're moving, as far as the game is concerned if you're not moving, you're not aligned.

It's pretty rare for highsec miner gankers to use multiple points, the time required to gank a miner is generally less than the time it takes for a stationary miner to get into warp especially if the scout is on the ball and gives them a good warpin, they have to be quick they have a very limited window in which to make you explode. Sensor boosters with a scan resolution (locking time) script are much more useful to gankers hitting miners, because it allows them to lock and start applying damage faster. Concord response times vary according to the system security level, in general it's less than 20 seconds in a 0.5 system (source) you only have to survive long enough for Concord to arrive and instapwn them.

Gankers (smart or otherwise) never trickle into the belts, they arrive en masse unless it's a solo ganker, and they can be picked up on the D-scan as far out as 14.3 AU (2,147,483,647 km) despite what the person I've quoted says.

Gankers don't want to stop people mining, if nobody mined, then no ships, ammo or modules would get produced. They want people to stop mining while they're AFK, alt tabbed to another application or botting, in short they want people to pay attention.

Situational awareness is essential, no matter if you're in highsec, lowsec, nullsec or wormhole space (wormholes have delayed local, if you don't use it, you don't appear in it, directional scan is your friend in this instance). If you set known ganker groups (hiya CODE and Goons) to terrible standings on a corporate or alliance basis, they'll show up in local as having terrible standings, they'll have a red background , and as such will stand out from the herd, if you see them appear in local, watch your overview, warp out, dock up or use a safe-spot. If you see them in red on your overview, warp out, and do it fast, being prealigned and moving (even slowly) will help you escape, although it's not guaranteed.

Don't smack talk any gankers that you come across, you merely draw attention to yourself and make yourself a target, if you see them in local, say hi, have a laugh with them, ask them how you can avoid being ganked, most will be happy to give you information that will stop you being ganked because it shows that you're paying attention and that you're willing to learn.

Highsec is not safe, it is merely safer than anywhere else, Concord are not there to protect, they are there to punish.

Disclaimer, I have an alt that occasionally flies with CODE., I've taken part in several ganks. I also mine and produce in highsec, it amuses me to watch my competition explode, and to sell them replacement equipment, it's good for my wallet.

I never said hi-sec was totaly safe..far from it I said it should not require me play it as I would null. Also CCP doesnt refer to Concord as punishers.

And Yes I have seen dumb gankers trickle in. Matter of fact think it may of been you and your corp.

It's a good thing it does not then. You don't have to sit there and read intel channels, or warp off and reship for combat any time a random unknown person enters local. You don't have to set an alarm clock and wake up at 3am to go defend some POS. You don't have to mash dscan every two seconds like in a wormhole either. Just pay moderate attention to suspicious activity around you.

Or, you know, tank your ship and not give a **** about any of it

Like I said this is just one of several ways. There is no way in a high populated system you will be able to pick out all the possible targets. Also if your mining you’re not going to be able to scan every three sec and evaluate the info and keep your lasers locked and on targets and deal with belt rats scan every three sec. I would say you’re not being honest if you claim otherwise.
Covert ships can and will be used.

I did say should the organized groups like gonnies or others want you then they will gank you... and they will...just because it has not happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t. I watched a friend of mine loose his Mack in a ice belt and he has played from day one. he was surprised when it happened also..Was a good humbling experience I think.

I dare say you are trolling.

How to deal with belt rats as a miner in high sec:
Land on grid. Right click > launch drones.
Alternately, turn on ifield/DC and ignore rats.

How to mine:
CTRL + Click two rocks and hit F1. Wait for target lock, switch to the second rock. Here's where the brain power comes in - wait for Cap if you need to stagger strips for cap stability of your tank. Then hit F2.

You now have a good 9+ minutes of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO. Except chat with people, check local, check DSCAN and make sure you are safe. Every 5-15 min you need to lock another rock and have the brain power to discern whether to F1 or F2. That's it.

I mash DSCAN every 3-5 seconds while dual boxing combat characters in wormhole sites. I will be honest that sometimes I screw up and slip for 20-30 seconds at a time. When extensive management of both ships is simultaneously required due to me making a mistake. Mostly because I'm playing around with new ships in a RR setup at the moment and sleeper webs mean i now need to pay close attention to range between the boats. I'm also sure someone will make me pay for it one of these days.

Lets be honest and state the real reason why you won't be hitting DSCAN every 5 seconds as a high sec miner. It's not because mining is an intensive task. Quite the opposite. It's because you are watching Youtube, playing with EFT, Forum Warrioring, playing another game, or not even sitting in front of the computer at all. I know I am. Our interaction with the game is down to the audio warning that you sucked a rock dry and need to target another, or your armor warning going off when you get ganked.


Your statement is not incorrect.
Except for the part where they are used for warp-ins and picking up loot/salvage. Not for surprise instant tackle. If they die in the operation that is a failure of the gankers. The risk of losing that ship (which goes suspect by the way) is one of the most overlooked risks by people who claim ganking is risk-free. Maybe some white knight should get into the ganker ganking business some time. It's less risk and more reward than ganking itself if done right.


They should. I have two miners with little over a week of mining training and an investment of about 70mil at today's prices. Why should I be able to spend a total of roughly 60 minutes tending to them over the course of 12 hours and mine up north of 100 million isk in complete safety? 100 mil/hour is right up there on the high end of the reward scale. Where is the risk?

Even if I get both barges ganked every day I will lose only about half the income they generate. And since the fit has 15k EHP in a 0.7 system (takes 4 meta cats with good skills by my rough math) with an average 3mil loot drop + retriever salvage... who exactly is going to target me? If I can go 6 months without getting ganked, why would I care the one off time it does happen? What's a 70 mil replacement cost in the face of 10Bil profit?