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GEEKS NEEDED! - Titan Falling From the Sky

Author
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-03-25 09:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
Debora Tsung wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
So y'all want some hard sci-fi? Some really realistic stuff?

Truth is all of these things like lasers, railguns, projectile weapons, missile launchers, armor, shields would be completely and utterly pointless to a society capable of light speed and FTL travel.

As soon as a society is capable of attaining light speed travel, a mass traveling at light speed is the be all and end all weapon. AKA a relativistic kill vehicle.

In the face of that, all these other sci-fi space toys are the equivalent of fighting a modern war with an atlatl and a sling. Or maybe just your fists and teeth.

A 1kg mass traveling at C will hit with the impact of 10.75 megatons. To reach the estimated yield of the 65 milion year ago asteroid, a mere 10 million kg (10,000 tonnes) is all that's required.


Unfortunately nobody in EVE actually travels at the speed of light.


unless you're using jump drives ,or jump gates, which by the displacement/time definition.
We are travelling FTL

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-03-25 10:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:

Unfortunately nobody in EVE actually travels at the speed of light.


unless you're using jump drives ,or jump gates, which by the displacement/time definition.
We are travelling FTL


No, the Jump drive or stargate displaces Your ship. From starting point A to tartget destination B. Be it through an artificial wormhole or some other complicated mechanic is irrelevant, You do not move at the speed of light because You do not exist between those two points.

EDIT: Read as, You do not move at the speed of light, because, you do not move.

If You would actually travel someone could follow You or somehow discern were You are on Your travel between point A and B and intercept You. But that is not possible because You essentially do not exist until You rematerialize at point B, which happens instantaneously once the jump is initiated. Hence the word jump.

Also, the warp drive... Did I ever mention that I hate that thing? Some of the Ships in EVE actually move at the speed of a fast car. Yes, car as in four wheeled vehicle fueled by long dead animals and plants. -.-

But the warp drive, as someone else stated in this and numerous other threads, actually shortens the distance a ship has to travel by generating an isolated space time bubble... You can even warp through planets because the planet is essentially not where You are because it can't be because You've got Your own pocket of space time... o_O

So while it would seem that a warping ship is really fast, it is not. it's still as slow as before. only the distance between two points got shortened so much that it doesn't matter anymore.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#63 - 2013-03-25 10:54:46 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:


unless you're using jump drives ,or jump gates, which by the displacement/time definition.
We are travelling FTL



And here i thougth we were traveling in a warp tunnel.. Wich gently slides open a hyperwindow and lets space on the outside swish by while we in reality are traveling at our normal jogging speed. Rats, how on earth can I ever play EvE again..
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-03-25 10:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
Debora Tsung wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:

Unfortunately nobody in EVE actually travels at the speed of light.


unless you're using jump drives ,or jump gates, which by the displacement/time definition.
We are travelling FTL


No, the Jump drive or stargate displaces Your ship. From starting point A to tartget destination B. Be it through an artificial wormhole or some other complicated mechanic is irrelevant, You do not move at the speed of light because You do not exist between those two points.

If You would actually travel someone could follow You or somehow discern were You are on Your travel between point A and B and intercept You. But that is not possible because You essentially do not exist until You rematerialize at point B, which happens instantaneously once the jump is initiated. Hence the word jump.

Also, the warp drive... Did I ever mention that I hate that thing? Some of the Ships in EVE actually move at the speed of a fast car. Yes, car as in four wheeled vehicle fueled by long dead animals and plants. -.-

But the warp drive, as someone else stated in this and numerous other threads, actually shortens the distance a ship has to travel by generating an isolated space time bubble... You can even warp through planets because the planet is essentially not where You are because it can't be because You've got Your own pocket of space time... o_O

So while it would seem that a warping ship is really fast, it is not. it's still as slow as before. only the distance between two points got shortened so much that it doesn't matter anymore.


Actually , no.
The so called "jump gates" SOMEHOW catapults you across great distances .
When we look at Evelopedia , it provides us with VERY little material to work on.
However , considering how our ships disappear from the starting system and reappears in the destination system in the form of a flash.
I'll say our ships were simply annihilated after our ship's quantum stated is transferred and reconstructed at a new destination. In such case , we are simply killing ourselves to be teleported lol
Thats not what we are talking about.

Where we talk about Faster Than Light travel , we are talking about the physical movement of the entity while within the same frame of dimension as we are in.
Thats why people looked at the proposed Einstein Rosen bridge or the string crossing.
(Which in NO way can it be so dense as to have loads of them scattered conveniently around planets and allowing pilots to make safespot everywhere. )
Those systems simply ride on a wave to its destination. However , thats not what we are looking for either.

Which brings us to the one last proposal .


In which case if interpreted in the context of general relativity, allows a warp bubble to appear in previously-flat spacetime and move away at effectively-superluminal speed by giving the ship a negative energy density, and thats why we needed the "magical obsidian" as stated in the OP . We have NO idea what would that sort of matter do when it comes in contact with normal matter because we don't even know WHAT THE DUCK it is????

The Alcubierre Drive allows the user to exist in the same plane of space , and thus achieving physical transportation without leaping into another dimension and other silliness . YOU ARE indeed travelling through space.

Now only if CCP have a science department so we can stop speculating among ourselves lol

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-03-25 10:57:50 UTC
On a side note , how did a discussion on classical physics and Meteor Astronomy turn into one about warp drives?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-03-25 11:04:48 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Now only if CCP have a science department so we can stop speculating among ourselves lol


I second that. some of the stuff happening in EVE is driving me nuts.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-03-25 11:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
Debora Tsung wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Now only if CCP have a science department so we can stop speculating among ourselves lol


I second that. some of the stuff happening in EVE is driving me nuts.


yeah lol.
For example , what is a planck generator??
How is a ship carrying more than its volume ?
blah blah blah
"Notify You cannot place a Planck generator container within another Planck generator, as it will cause a graviton harmonics chain reaction whose end cannot be determined."

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

iskflakes
#68 - 2013-03-25 11:08:06 UTC
I am, as usual, distressed at the lack of any physics behind CCP's space games. What do they teach you in Iceland? Certainly not how to estimate crater sizes or decaying-orbital trajectory parameters, that's for sure.

-

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-03-25 11:12:32 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
I am, as usual, distressed at the lack of any physics behind CCP's space games. What do they teach you in Iceland? Certainly not how to estimate crater sizes or decaying-orbital trajectory parameters, that's for sure.

2 MILLION KILOMETERS METER SQUARED OF DESTRUCTION!?

wut wut ?
Its in damn free fall , how is it spreading so far apart???

And to make matter worse , how is a GEO orbit titan falling back down to the planet within a day?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-03-25 11:39:39 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
I am, as usual, distressed at the lack of any physics behind CCP's space games. What do they teach you in Iceland? Certainly not how to estimate crater sizes or decaying-orbital trajectory parameters, that's for sure.

2 MILLION KILOMETERS METER SQUARED OF DESTRUCTION!?

wut wut ?
Its in damn free fall , how is it spreading so far apart???

And to make matter worse , how is a GEO orbit titan falling back down to the planet within a day?


The explosion happened right in the center of the titan, so while one end was propelled in the general direction of the planet, the other end is now drifting through open space. :P

But srsly, only 2 million Km^2? Styrophoam titan... o_O

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-03-25 11:55:52 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
I am, as usual, distressed at the lack of any physics behind CCP's space games. What do they teach you in Iceland? Certainly not how to estimate crater sizes or decaying-orbital trajectory parameters, that's for sure.

2 MILLION KILOMETERS METER SQUARED OF DESTRUCTION!?

wut wut ?
Its in damn free fall , how is it spreading so far apart???

And to make matter worse , how is a GEO orbit titan falling back down to the planet within a day?


The explosion happened right in the center of the titan, so while one end was propelled in the general direction of the planet, the other end is now drifting through open space. :P

But srsly, only 2 million Km^2? Styrophoam titan... o_O


Explosion????
Did you even see the titan go down??

The entire thing was in ONE SINGLE piece .
There was no SUPER DUPER spine breaking explosion.
The thing just suddenly decided it didn't want to be a titan any more and it wanted to become swiss cheese .

That leaves us with the only one conclusion.
The titan broke up during reentry and was scattered around like pollen

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

stoicfaux
#72 - 2013-03-25 12:11:28 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:

Explosion????
Did you even see the titan go down??

The entire thing was in ONE SINGLE piece .
There was no SUPER DUPER spine breaking explosion.
The thing just suddenly decided it didn't want to be a titan any more and it wanted to become swiss cheese .

That leaves us with the only one conclusion.
The titan broke up during reentry and was scattered around like pollen

News reports about what happened to the Titan:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=widespread-destruction-hampers-caldari-prime-relief-effort

http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=shiigeru-destroyed-federation-navy-offensive-in-luminaire-still-ongoing-1

http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=shiigeru-wreckage-impacts-caldari-prime-surface-situation-unclear-1

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-03-25 12:38:17 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
The explosion happened right in the center of the titan, so while one end was propelled in the general direction of the planet, the other end is now drifting through open space. :P

But srsly, only 2 million Km^2? Styrophoam titan... o_O


Explosion????
Did you even see the titan go down??

The entire thing was in ONE SINGLE piece .
There was no SUPER DUPER spine breaking explosion.
The thing just suddenly decided it didn't want to be a titan any more and it wanted to become swiss cheese .

That leaves us with the only one conclusion.
The titan broke up during reentry and was scattered around like pollen


Dang, I had so hoped to be funny. -.-

I honestly thought it was just a piece that came down, as there's only a part of it visible. the other part is... stuck somewhere, or just plain gone. I guess. :/

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#74 - 2013-03-25 21:07:34 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Darth Nenny wrote:
OK, just putting my 2 bob's worth here, id use SUVAT equations 2 work this out
s = distance (metres, m)
u = initial velocity (metres per second, ms^-1)
v = final velocity (metres per second, ms^-1)
a = acceleration (metres per second squared, ms^-2)
t = time (seconds, s)
the equations as follows
v = u + at
s = ut + 1/2at^2
s = vt - 1/2at^2
v^2 = u^2 + 2as
s = ((u + v)/2)t

OK, lets make a few assumptions,
S= 1,000 k's so its 1,000,000 m
U= 0mps due 2 a standing start, it wasn't falling from the sky, it was flying under power above the planet before we start our equations
V= we don't know yet
A= we can assume its 10.3mps thanks 2 a previous post if he is correct (i hope he is)
T= we don't know how long it took so we will have 2 work it out

S = UT - 1/2AT^2 as we know all but T and V, do the equation to find out T then do one of the others 2 work out V
then we can then work out how much force N (newtons) the titan hit the planet at, its easy enough 2 work that out into megajoules or whatever measurement of energy you want to use after that.
FYI the reason i haven't done the equation 4 you is due 2 the fact that i cant remember how to do said equation, its been 15 years since i did physics in high school and i really cant work it out.... maybe I've drank 2 much booze since then lol.
also there is a equation u can use 2 work out the gravity of both objects and the time it would take for them to come together excluding all other factors, but I'm yet to remember that on so u guys are on ya own from here on.

dam my head hurts now :P
good luck

Darth nenny

edit 2 fix a small error


AH-HA!
I FOUND IT!
COMPLETE caldari prime geological and gravitational data :
Well.. not really complete , but its a NICE start.

Attributes
Planet Type Planet (Temperate)
Density 1467990 kg/m³
Eccentricity 0.014
Escape Velocity 12.248 km/s
Mass Dust 6.445e+24 kg
Mass Gas 8.734e+24 kg
Orbit Period 3785.4 days
Orbit Radius 5.181 AU
Pressure 21.12 kPa
Radius 13,503 km
Surface Gravity 7.618 m/s²
Temperature 297.00 K


Alright then, the planet mass would then by approximately (Neglecting the Equatorial bulge since I am in a state of Apple CIder induced "cannot be arsed"), but here , if you feel like it . Do it
mω2rsinφ=−mg(1/r)(dr/dφ)

r(0)−r(π/2)≈[(ω^2)(r¯^2)]/g¯

Kudos to Kepler

planet mass (M) = 2.0816437768816E+25 kilogram
GEO orbit radius from surface = 13504.618km
If some of ya love integration , you would get a MUCH more accurate result than mine . The following would be slighly overestimating the effects , but meh.

The titan would impact earth at 14343.88176192205 ms-1 (14.3kms^-1)
Considering it was a vertical drop , the sphere of debris would be well within that of a small country , so lets say
The KE of the impact would be around 249982536960Megajoules = 59.747260267686 megaton of TNT .

Well.. then ..
That isn't so bad after all ..
If the magical fusion core doesn't explode


Caldari use gravimetric cores, whole reason why cal navy uses gravity sensors.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#75 - 2013-03-25 21:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
silly double post.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#76 - 2013-03-25 21:09:06 UTC
Gallente ships use magnetometric sensors.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#77 - 2013-03-25 21:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Malcanis wrote:
Gallente ships use magnetometric sensors.


I am pretty sure caldari ships use magentic senros because of the gallente ion cores.

Similar how how minmatar use ladar and amarr uses radar.

/me does ingame lookups... because we know how innaccurate eve-wiki is from time to time.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-03-25 23:30:41 UTC
Did noone else notice that op based all his calculations...

on the wrong planet, in the wrong solar system, IN THE WRONG REGION?

Op used New Caldari Prime, of System New Caldari

However, the leviathan crashed on Caldari Prime (Luminaire VII) of System Luminaire

Time to throw out all your calculations OP, and redo them.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#79 - 2013-03-25 23:36:53 UTC
We also shot the wreck, so it shouldn't be there anyway. ;)
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-03-26 01:01:52 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Did noone else notice that op based all his calculations...

on the wrong planet, in the wrong solar system, IN THE WRONG REGION?

Op used New Caldari Prime, of System New Caldari

However, the leviathan crashed on Caldari Prime (Luminaire VII) of System Luminaire

Time to throw out all your calculations OP, and redo them.


Wait wit ??????


NOOOOOOoooooooooo

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬