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What's the CSM's stance on the Power of 2 bonus?
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Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#1 - 2011-10-28 19:42:43 UTC
So CCP is re-issuing a formerly "unique" ship poor pods could afford and giving them out as part of the power of 2 promotion. Kinda screws anyone who got one... should there be policy on it? What's the difference between re-issuing the apotheosis and say the Freki, or the Utu, or any other unique ship?

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Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#2 - 2011-10-28 19:53:51 UTC
While I understand your principle upset here, does it really matter? I suspect CCP devs were chatting and decided to pick a ship that mainly sits in hangers and isn't of strategic importance. Would you be upset if they put an issuing limit on it to ONLY include those from biomassed accounts?

Again I understand why in principle you are upset, but does it really matter here? If it were state raven, I'd get it
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
#3 - 2011-10-28 20:05:56 UTC
Gogela wrote:
What's the difference between re-issuing the apotheosis and say the Freki, or the Utu, or any other unique ship?


There's a massive difference between a re-skinned shuttle that was given out to everyone that was subbed at some point and a tournament prize assault frig of which there were only 50 ever in existence. There's a reason the Freki/Utu sell for more than 1000x what an Apotheosis does. Stop and think before you say something else stupid.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#4 - 2011-10-28 20:24:35 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Gogela wrote:
What's the difference between re-issuing the apotheosis and say the Freki, or the Utu, or any other unique ship?


There's a massive difference between a re-skinned shuttle that was given out to everyone that was subbed at some point and a tournament prize assault frig of which there were only 50 ever in existence. There's a reason the Freki/Utu sell for more than 1000x what an Apotheosis does. Stop and think before you say something else stupid.


I'm not saying there's not a big difference in what the ships are capable of or the methods of which they were originally acquired, but in principal they are the same in that they were unique ships. Ultimately the value or a Freki/Utu has no bearing on how they were acquired or their performance capability, dose it? You said yourself in your argument that they are worth over 1000x (closer to 3000x) what an Apotheosis is... whcih suggests your belief that price is valid criteria on which to judge this. If that's the case, than I am correct. The reason a Freki costs more than a Wolf is because it is unique. Nothing more. Scarcity gives it intrinsic value. Otherwise, it's just another T2 frigate. The reason an Apotheosis was selling for 20 mil last week and less than 10 this week is because of it's perceived scarcity and the loss of that perception due to the re-issue... otherwise it's simply a shuttle.

Maybe you should substantiate your arguments, mxzf... otherwise someone might thing you are stupid. I know I do.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#5 - 2011-10-28 20:47:19 UTC
Gogela wrote:
I'm not saying there's not a big difference in what the ships are capable of or the methods of which they were originally acquired, but in principal they are the same in that they were unique ships.


The principle that you are arguing on is "CCP is making a unique ship that was issued free to every single account that was active, more common than it already is." Think about what you are saying here. There are at least 200k Apotheosis shuttles or Zephyrs in existence, less losses. The market for them is small because those people collecting unique ships already have them.

The only way that Apotheosis or Zeyphyrs are going to increase in value is if a large proportion of the people who already have them manage to lose them somehow.

These token ships are not in the same category as Utus and Frekis. One set of ships are nigh ubiquitous, the other are very rare.

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Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#6 - 2011-10-28 21:11:57 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
The principle that you are arguing on is "CCP is making a unique ship that was issued free to every single account that was active, more common than it already is." Think about what you are saying here. There are at least 200k Apotheosis shuttles or Zephyrs in existence, less losses. The market for them is small because those people collecting unique ships already have them.

The only way that Apotheosis or Zeyphyrs are going to increase in value is if a large proportion of the people who already have them manage to lose them somehow.

These token ships are not in the same category as Utus and Frekis. One set of ships are nigh ubiquitous, the other are very rare.


Well... that really to me seems to be a relative argument. My only contention would be that the shuttles value is based on market availability, and as that has declined their prices have risen. I'll even concede that there could be more than twice the number of them than you said there. You're saying that 'one is kinda rare and the other is really rare'... that's not a principled counterargument.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-10-28 21:24:53 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
The principle that you are arguing on is "CCP is making a unique ship that was issued free to every single account that was active, more common than it already is." Think about what you are saying here. There are at least 200k Apotheosis shuttles or Zephyrs in existence, less losses. The market for them is small because those people collecting unique ships already have them.

The only way that Apotheosis or Zeyphyrs are going to increase in value is if a large proportion of the people who already have them manage to lose them somehow.

These token ships are not in the same category as Utus and Frekis. One set of ships are nigh ubiquitous, the other are very rare.


Well... that really to me seems to be a relative argument. My only contention would be that the shuttles value is based on market availability, and as that has declined their prices have risen. I'll even concede that there could be more than twice the number of them than you said there. You're saying that 'one is kinda rare and the other is really rare'... that's not a principled counterargument.

its a shutle that no one ever undocks in, everyone who would EVER buy one from ANYONE already has one. and besides looking pretty ahs no practical use what so ever.

and it is to my knowledge the freki and utu were PRIZES for a TOURNAMENT.

your arguing 2 different things here.

the shuttle is like a limited edition collector's buttons. they will be made and made again so long as the mold isnt broken.

whereas there will only ever be as many 1987 (or whatever year was important) baseball world series trophies as were originally made, because the 1987 world series only happens once. the 1988 series may have a trophy, but it wont say 1987 on it, which is what determines the value.

its not the always the rarity of it, but the significance of it, if it is a reward for a particluar event that only a few were able to receive, it will be infinitely more valuable then anything else because it CANT eb re-released, because the event it was issued for has already happened and wont happen again.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-10-28 21:33:11 UTC
Gogela wrote:
So CCP is re-issuing a formerly "unique" ship poor pods could afford and giving them out as part of the power of 2 promotion. Kinda screws anyone who got one... should there be policy on it? What's the difference between re-issuing the apotheosis and say the Freki, or the Utu, or any other unique ship?



Your obviously a noob.

Let me break it down.

Freki - Hudnreds of billions of ISK.

Some jovian Shuttle - a few million.


Exaggeration on purpose.

Get it? Got it? Good.

Now go back to your cave. : O P

(Even then...its not worth that much in the first place)

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Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#9 - 2011-10-28 22:04:46 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

its a shutle that no one ever undocks in, everyone who would EVER buy one from ANYONE already has one. and besides looking pretty ahs no practical use what so ever.

and it is to my knowledge the freki and utu were PRIZES for a TOURNAMENT.

your arguing 2 different things here.

the shuttle is like a limited edition collector's buttons. they will be made and made again so long as the mold isnt broken.

whereas there will only ever be as many 1987 (or whatever year was important) baseball world series trophies as were originally made, because the 1987 world series only happens once. the 1988 series may have a trophy, but it wont say 1987 on it, which is what determines the value.

its not the always the rarity of it, but the significance of it, if it is a reward for a particluar event that only a few were able to receive, it will be infinitely more valuable then anything else because it CANT eb re-released, because the event it was issued for has already happened and wont happen again.


Yes the Freki is more significant and of higher value. It's unique in that it says VII on the hull. I happen to have one. The Apotheosis has "For you, children, on your fifth birthday" in it's description, which apparently should be amended to say "...and our random future promotions...". Someone should probably edit the EvE Wiki's statement "As far as is known, the Apotheosis is a "limited-edition" ship, in that it doesn't get replaced if destroyed, and there are no blueprints for manufacturing more of them." as well... I guess it's always CCPs 5th birthday? I guess I'm too dumb to follow you here...

Drake Draconis wrote:

Your obviously a noob.

Let me break it down.

Freki - Hudnreds of billions of ISK.

Some jovian Shuttle - a few million.


1) Clearly

2) Last one sold for 20 Billion. Got mine for 22 bil. Just FYI

3) 20mil+ last week, 8mil today. Also FYI...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-10-28 23:20:44 UTC
Gogela wrote:

Drake Draconis wrote:

Your obviously a noob.

Let me break it down.

Freki - Hudnreds of billions of ISK.

Some jovian Shuttle - a few million.


1) Clearly

2) Last one sold for 20 Billion. Got mine for 22 bil. Just FYI

3) 20mil+ last week, 8mil today. Also FYI...



WHA?ShockedShockedShockedAttentionAttention

Market musta bottomed out...dayum. Oops

Maybe I should start saving my iskies...thanks for the correction.TwistedLolCool

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Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#11 - 2011-10-30 03:14:13 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
The only way that Apotheosis or Zeyphyrs are going to increase in value is if a large proportion of the people who already have them manage to lose them somehow.

Or if the # of people increases while the # of ships remains the same.
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
its a shutle that no one ever undocks in[..]
its not the always the rarity of it, but the significance of it, if it is a reward for a particluar event that only a few were able to receive, it will be infinitely more valuable then anything else because it CANT eb re-released, because the event it was issued for has already happened and wont happen again.

I guess I am no one then. P
Also, from this argument it would seem you dislike that they are re-releasing these ships.

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