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Congratulations to the Federation Navy for their victory against tyranny
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Tiber Brucato
Really Great Space Corporation
United Neopian Federation
#41 - 2013-03-24 04:01:03 UTC
Oh, and the internment of Federal citizens into confinement centers to be kept as a potential collective human shield.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#42 - 2013-03-24 04:19:31 UTC
Eric 'Swiftmind' Siraron wrote:
If any mistakes were made, it was by the Administration not the military.

Indeed.
For all the abhorrent rhetoric that was thrown around, it wasn't the navy that put a titan there, and it wasn't the navy that had her shot down. The military is a tool for the government. The brave men and women in those navies are to be commended for their commitment to their nations, but the leaders who have improperly wielded them have acted shamefully, and thier actions should not go unchallenged.
Stitcher wrote:
Throw in the reported fact that DUST mercs are operating down there under the banner of the FDU (or FEDEF as they're calling it now) and have been since before the assault on the Shiigeru and the only conclusion I can draw is that the FIO have been at work down there laying the ground for this day, probably for months. Which suggests given president Roden's stated views on the matter of Home, that this has been an ongoing executive project quite probably since he first took office.

This is one of the things that has me most annoyed about the current situation.
Through the entire incident, the admiral of the Federation Fleet kept spewing lies about their intentions for the planet. The claim that was made was that the fleet was there for the Titan, and while that was certainly ONE of the objectives, the overall goal of the operation as a whole was to land and support troops on the surface of Caldari prime.

This is not a special operation highly secret and classified. it was a straight up fight, so to lie and try to hide your intentions is reprehensible and would seem to indicate a lack of integrity.

Don't **** in my ear and tell me it's raining.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#43 - 2013-03-24 05:05:15 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Congratulations to the Federation Navy for their victory against tyranny.


Wait, Roden and Blaque are dead?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#44 - 2013-03-24 05:07:59 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:

Through the entire incident, the admiral of the Federation Fleet kept spewing lies about their intentions for the planet. The claim that was made was that the fleet was there for the Titan, and while that was certainly ONE of the objectives, the overall goal of the operation as a whole was to land and support troops on the surface of Caldari prime.

This is not a special operation highly secret and classified. it was a straight up fight, so to lie and try to hide your intentions is reprehensible and would seem to indicate a lack of integrity.

Don't **** in my ear and tell me it's raining.


The troops were already fighting on Caldari Prime before the Federal fleet showed up to engage the Leviathan. Neither side supported the ground efforts directly while the engagement was ongoing, and the Federal fleet left within hours of cleaning the State from the field.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#45 - 2013-03-24 05:36:05 UTC
I remember watching the SURVIVING Moros class ships fleeing the field after the main meat of the engagement was over, yes.

If Concord hadn't removed their suspect flags, I doubt they would have made it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
#46 - 2013-03-24 06:39:11 UTC
A long overdue return to normalcy.

Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-03-24 08:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Tiber Brucato wrote:
You forgot Nouvelle Rouvenor in that timeline.


With all appropriate sympathy and respect for the dead of Nouvelle Rouvenor, the sustained orbital bombardment far exceeded that bombing in scale, death toll, human misery and echelon of approval. NR was an extremist minority - the bombardment was Federal government policy with popular backing.

If the war was an avalanche, then NR was the night's snowfall that finally set off all that accumulated weight of snow that had been building up for some time.

Small crimes don't warrant the death penalty. there is no crime anywhere ever that warrants genocide in my opinion. Genocide, however, was one of the two acceptable outcomes for the Federation back then, the other being compliance.

this is entirely symptomatic of the problem that exists between us, however. Whenever the Caldari dare to claim that we have been wronged, the immediate response is "well you're not completely innocent either."

The difference in scale is akin to telling somebody who was beaten unconscious by a mob and had their possessions stolen that there will be no investigation into the assault because they were convicted for possessing a controlled substance as a teenager. Our grievances are valid no matter the existence of our own shortcomings.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-03-24 10:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
I don't expect any of you to understand but I made this thread to honor what I consider heroes to me.

People that gone above and beyond the call of duty and followed the orders that were given to them and completed them with as much professionalism and ability it was possible for them at the time.

The Federation Navy had been a slump for far too long this victory is a tremendous boost to their morale. A well deserved boost.

I don't expect any of you to agree with me either ideologically or politically but if you don't have anything nice to say or productive to share I ask that you stop commenting in this thread.

The old apologetic and bitter responses that I get from Caldari capsuleers here in IGS are all too commonplace. All you do is embaress yourselves with your childish and spoiled attitudes. As much you people enjoy judging me I have the emotional maturity to at least to know the place I should stay quiet.

I can't and neither will stop you from whining and making yourselves look bad and I won't even reply to you as I did not make this thread worrying about public opinion, much less about the opinion of my enemies.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#49 - 2013-03-24 10:47:46 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
I don't expect any of you to understand but I made this thread to honor what I consider heroes to me.

People that gone above and beyond the call of duty and followed the orders that were given to them and completed them with as much professionalism and ability it was possible for them at the time.

The Federation Navy had been a slump for far too long this victory is a tremendous boost to their morale. A well deserved boost.


A lot of people are upset that they lost their favourite titan.
What people are failing to realize is that CN Shiigeru was going to execute countless innocents and it was the intervention of the Federation Navy that prevented this.
The Gallente are blameless for all civilian casualties resulting from the titan wreckage crashing near Arcurio - Arcurio is a primarily Gallente city and it was going to be glassed. Had the Federation not intervened, there would be far more casualties.

Someone.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#50 - 2013-03-24 11:00:05 UTC
You do realize her positioning was a result of Federation actions planetside don't you?
Whether the orders were right or wrong, you are fooling yourself if you try to claim the State instigated the chain of events that lead to this.

Heth's actions are reprehensible, but the Gallente share the blame for landing troops and instigating terrorist acts on the surface. The Federation is equally responsible for their efforts in escalating the conflict.
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#51 - 2013-03-24 11:07:05 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
You do realize her positioning was a result of Federation actions planetside don't you?
Whether the orders were right or wrong, you are fooling yourself if you try to claim the State instigated the chain of events that lead to this.

Heth's actions are reprehensible, but the Gallente share the blame for landing troops and instigating terrorist acts on the surface. The Federation is equally responsible for their efforts in escalating the conflict.


Escalating the conflict? The conflict that the Caldari State clearly started when they put a titan in orbit of a Gallente planet? In an entirely unprovoked attack on an empire that has been at peace for two hundred years?
CN Shiigeru was preparing to glass civilians. The Federation Navy could not stand by and do nothing when many, many millions of their people were at risk.

Someone.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#52 - 2013-03-24 11:09:08 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
The old apologetic and bitter responses that I get from Caldari capsuleers here in IGS are all too commonplace. All you do is embaress yourselves with your childish and spoiled attitudes. As much you people enjoy judging me I have the emotional maturity to at least to know the place I should stay quiet.


This is a lie, every single life lost on Caldari Prime has featured your ghoulish rictus grin above your endlessly rubbing hands as you've wallowed in any scrap of pain that could be inflicted. That said, if this marks a new policy of yours, then I'll reciprocate by absenting myself from this thread in future.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#53 - 2013-03-24 11:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
You do realize her positioning was a result of Federation actions planetside don't you?
Whether the orders were right or wrong, you are fooling yourself if you try to claim the State instigated the chain of events that lead to this.

Heth's actions are reprehensible, but the Gallente share the blame for landing troops and instigating terrorist acts on the surface. The Federation is equally responsible for their efforts in escalating the conflict.


Escalating the conflict? The conflict that the Caldari State clearly started when they put a titan in orbit of a Gallente planet? In an entirely unprovoked attack on an empire that has been at peace for two hundred years?
CN Shiigeru was preparing to glass civilians. The Federation Navy could not stand by and do nothing when many, many millions of their people were at risk.

No the Gallente Started it two hundred years ago when they bombed our civilians and attacked our evacuating transports, then tried to claim Caldari prime themselves.

If I recall correctly, Caldari Prime was signed over to the State by your President Foirtran a few year ago. Recently Federation troops and mercenaries employed by the Federation were landed on Caldari prime which is State property by your own nation's declaration. Said landing of troops garnered a response. Had those troops not been sent, and had the Federation not incited and sponsored civil unrest there would have been no reason for naval forces to do anything. The threats made by Heth are abhorrent, but the Gallente directly incited that chain of events.

and before you try and claim that was always the plan for Heth to orbitally bombard civilians please bear this in mind: Heth is a madman but he is not stupid. He would never get away with doing something like that over random acts of violence. even the most hardliner Caldari would turn against him. When the Gallente escalated things, they skewed public opinion so any actions he takes become GOOD PR for him.


Stop throwing fuel on the fire damnit.
Heth has lots of matches.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-03-24 11:53:43 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
If I recall correctly, Caldari Prime was signed over to the State by your President Foirtran a few year ago.

At gunpoint, no less.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#55 - 2013-03-24 12:00:57 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
If I recall correctly, Caldari Prime was signed over to the State by your President Foirtran a few year ago.

At gunpoint, no less.

The Federation only had that world because THEY took it from US at gunpoint FIRST.

You know what though? Our retaking of our home planet didn't involve us bombing your home planet for months on end.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-03-24 12:11:14 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
The Federation only had that world because THEY took it from US at gunpoint FIRST.

You know what though? Our retaking of our home planet didn't involve us bombing your home planet for months on end.

Given what we saw on Friday, one suspects it's only because there was a CONCORD around to stop them.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#57 - 2013-03-24 12:13:34 UTC
NO, you know what. I am tired of talking to a wall. In the face of undisputed facts you refuse to believe the truth that the Federations actions were just as wrong and just as reprehensible, and are just as responsible for the current events as our own. You also show a complete disregard to your own past.

But no, apparently you still cling to the belief that your vaunted Federation can do no wrong. They always stand for truth and liberty and never their own petty personal interests; they're too superbly superhuman and perfect to have petty human weaknesses. It MUST be somebody else's fault.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#58 - 2013-03-24 12:18:04 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
The Federation only had that world because THEY took it from US at gunpoint FIRST.

You know what though? Our retaking of our home planet didn't involve us bombing your home planet for months on end.

Given what we saw on Friday, one suspects it's only because there was a CONCORD around to stop them.

Read your goddamn history books once and a while.

When State forces retook Caldari Prime, CONCORD was NOT around to stop them from doing anything.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-03-24 12:50:14 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
Read your goddamn history books once and a while.

When State forces retook Caldari Prime, CONCORD was NOT around to stop them from doing anything.

Yes, but only for one day. A months-long bombing campaign can't happen in a day.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#60 - 2013-03-24 13:20:08 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I remember watching the SURVIVING Moros class ships fleeing the field after the main meat of the engagement was over, yes.

If Concord hadn't removed their suspect flags, I doubt they would have made it.


Sure, however you wish to word it to heal your bruised ego. Considering that those ships weren't at risk of you shooting them, it's odd to word it as fleeing though.

That would be like saying how you fled the scene afterwards yourselves. The Caldari fleet had been removed from the field, they had no further reason to stay.


This type of chest-beating and posturing is the arrogant ego-driven attitude that started this mess.



And while we're going on the back and forth about the original war, both sides attacked civilian populaces. Be it from the army on the ground or from Navy strikes in orbit, trying to use this to win an argument is ignorant at best, hypocritical and callous at worst.

Neither side was innocent here, the sooner people accept the faults their side did rather than all this pointless chest beating and flag waving the better.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.