Assembly Hall

Titan Class Paper Weights


First of all I know I am going to get a lot of hate posts and mails from this. This is a sore subject for a lot of people. Mostly the goons but hey what can you do.

When people think of titans they think of one of the most powerful, most expansive, most giant ships in the game. They have their doomsday, they have their titan bridge, they have powerful guns, and they are one of the most attention drawing ships in the game. But now when eve vets think about titans all they can say is “there is no point in buying one as they are now trash”. For those who don’t know why they are trash it is because they have been nerfed time after time after time. They can no longer have an AOE doomsday, which is understandable given that fleet fights were very hard to have when you had the “I win button” to end entire fleets. So to fix that CCP introduced focused Doomsdays. These are doomsday beams that only target a single ship. But then they became to widely used and they were nerfed. No longer could a Doomsday be used on sub-capital ships. To compensate for that the sandbox spit out the Tracking Titans. Everyone saw the power of that when Raiden was in Querious (aka the Thunder dome) and again with the war in the north against CFC. After thousands upon Thousands of ships died to the might Tracking titans CCP nerfed the racking on the titans. So now the only thing titans can do is Doomsday capital and super capital ships and use guns on pos towers, other high hit point structures, and give fleet’s the ability to bridge into a combat system in a moment’s notice.

Everyone is crying for Super Capital ships to die in Grand flames of fire and massive fights doing it. But other than the Asakai fight no real big fights have taken place where Titans have died. There is the occasional titan gank but that’s about it. The reason being there is no reason to drop titans anymore. They are very expansive jump bridges. Other than the occasional gank of a carrier or a dread they are rarely used in combat these days.


So I am proposing that we give a little back to the people who have spent years training, ratting, and butt loads of isk keeping their accounts running. I say we give back the Doomsday ability to hit sub-Capital class ships. The reason being titans will now have reasons to drop again. I will guarantee that if titans were allowed to doomsday subcaps again you would see more fights taken place with not only titans, but super carriers as well. Super caps deaths will be more and more often than as it stands today.


So if CCP and you the eve players really want to see more Supercapital kills and fights taking place more often then please I beg you please show your support on this proposal.

if you agree with me please like the post. if you don't agree with me please post why and give us your idea.

Thank you for your time…

well that would be counter productive.. the reason its called a doomsday is casue its a "head shot" weapon. no weapons in eve have an over time damage dealt damage style. the best way this could work is to allow them to focus doomsday subcaps again.. and its not something that will take months to make happen... if they wanted to they could release that in a patch on 24 hrs notice.

well lets look at it this way... yea i agree titans were able to escape in the old days but lets take a look at fleet sizes... this is the era of the Coalitions. everyone is in one, or everyone has one a speed dial. so the ammount of hics and dics that can be brought to fight that argument goes out the window. we can even look at it like this a cloaky saber can hold a titan down. granted the titan may be able to lock him in time if the dictor is not paying attention. even so dictors are cheap. a titan is a 100+ billion isk investment just for the hull. a dictor is like 60 mil fitted. a ttian with a decent fit runs 130+ billion isk... that titan should noty be able to be killed by a cloaky dictor and 5 battleships. so let the titan DD again... the dictor will still be pretty much safe if he knows what he is doing. the battleships will die every 10 min... and by the time those battleships die they should have bat phoned someone to kill the titan...

so the whole omg the titan is going to escape because he can DD the hic/dic is a terrible argument in this case. and lets think about it.. when catching a titan cloaky dics are the primary ship type.. when its caught and you fleet shows up to kill it then u use hics.. if u just bring one hic then u deserve to miss the km... and the only thing to catch a titan in low sec is a hic but dont worry titans cant DD in low sec... soooooooo

I'm at a bit of a crossroad when it comes to titans and DD's. Having never flown one or used such a weapon what I say may not have that much value either. Even though I have been around long enough to hear about the changes and how it has shifted things in null wars.

So for what it is worth..

A weapon that is the strongest, most expensive, and longest to train into should have some kind of worth that makes it appealing to go after. Being a one click no questions about and unconditional IWIN button is a bit too much though. The concept of AoE style weapons on any ship type registers to me as something all ships should have built in as a form of overloading your capacitor and inevitably power core of the ship. With damage amounts relevant to the power of the non skill/fitting modified capacitor. A last resort that you can burn out when all else is failing and something that then renders the ship useless for either long periods of time, or indefinitely. Possibly depending on thermodynamics levels and/or how many slots you commit to capacitor buffing being the influence on the ships survivability after such an overload. the buffer for an internal damage type.

This might seem to go off topic, but bear with me for a sec. The idea and various levels of smartbombs (including doomsdays) can then be reworked to act as the very unpopular anti-cloaking tool. WH dwellers then don't have to throw as much of a hissy fit since who really has a titan in a WH to make an electronics disrupting/multi spectral ripple large enough to cover a possible full grid? smaller smartbombs anti-cloak range would only be useful to lift the veil off of an incoming bombing runs and what not a few seconds before they hit, so any class of cloakys goals are still achievable, they can still lurk and gather intel, but the virtually no-risk and all gains cloaky has some kind of counter. Now, if you put the resources into getting the sov, skills, and ships to hold powerful tools to help the groups maintain the space it was born from and for, would this be worthwhile as a weapon to help keep your space?

I know folks want to feel that training into capitals should make you the biggest baddest thing in the eve verse, but imo really their presence as main attack forces and/or necessities in fleet compositions a factor in what keeps a large chunk of players from making use of and occupying null. That and bubbles are large contributors to what keeps null empty and dull. Beefing up any direct combat related aspect of caps will only contribute to this. If you really want more folks to fight and live out in null, it might be worth considering leveling the battlefield where the smaller combat classes have the larger roles then massive instant win ships. I've always felt capitals should be deep space excursion vessels, mobile platforms comparable to POS' or stations which you can seed your empires expansion to and what can act as a dry dock for when you are too far out in uncivilized space to have the convenience of an outpost/station. Things they already have some capability of, but its pretty much agreed they are never used as used as. Rorquals just park it in a pos and boost/compress from a distance instead of leaving to the vast unknown for expedition type mining. Titans are just mobile jump bridges, carriers and dreads are just common weapons that only call for more of their own types to come in as a counter.

(slightly straying from doomsday topic, but still relevant to a capitals place and roles as a weapon or resource)

An unrealistic vision of mine was have capitals replace POS' and capitals themselves become a form of modular tower with maybe three subsystems that only add a small piece or part to the already present capital hulls, as weapon batteries do, but not to the extent of full subsystem design changing. With an indy core, they can anchor near a moon for harvesting with the moon mining array being a sort of an orbital strip miner for real end-game mining types, also expanding to mobile research platform with small scale assembly lines for keeping ammo stocks up and sub-cap ship supplies going when you are in deep space without them. A siege core subsystem could give it the offensive abilitys of whatever kind. Logistics core focuess on remote repping, probing, fleet boosting, etc. The capital type itself having small skill based modifiers for such cores/subsystems and acting as the difference between small/med/large towers.

Continuing on with that theme and the idea of titan fights/dooms days, having a one size kills all weapon of destruction may also be what hinders the element of this being a MMO. Opening your ranks to classes that can take out vessels smaller then what you are currently flying instigates team playing and effort more then single shotting anything and everything. The general idea of larger ships from various sources is they do have the capacity to take on ships of their own class, but need support to go against the smaller crowds which their weapons cannot track. Currently capitals do support this, outside of fighters. If you really want something stronger, it will have to come with consequences beyond time and money so they are tools that require strategy, not simple grinding or waiting for a queue to finish.

They should make it so that after it shoots, the Doomsday Device increases the damage dealt by the Titan, so that the Titan deals more damage with its Turrets/Missiles while immobile than a Dread.

back to the top ... like the main post if you agree

paragraph one: Sorry, lack of planning on your part does not constitute a right to a titan loss on their part. You dont bring the right tools, you loose, oh well, go away and find more targets you are prepared for. should we just let ships fit the whole toolbox because they "might" come across a golden unicorn with a rainbow fart in space? guess what, HTFU and deal with it.

Paragraph two: yes, that was the case, it was a nerf to counter an issue, as was the original buff to bring Titans to play in fleets, as the first buff was an overbuff, the subsequent nerfcannon was an overnerf, and titans have once again returned to the refuge of pos shields as they once were, guess what, now they have a pretty pos ornament again. the real fix lies somewhere between, hence the discussion of altering the doomsdays to lie somewhere between. just because you tackle a titan, doesnt mean it should be a guaranteed kill, you have to work for it, and you have to give the titan a chance to escape. to make it a fair fight, instead of a cow in a pen to be slaughtered for the glory of your killboard.


on a slightly related side note, perhaps titans need another role, something they are a bit more suited to, to bring them back out on the field, and to deal with the fleet boost issue, give the titans the role of command capital, if command links are going to be nerfed to grid only, give titans the ability to fit 3 command links, reduce the turret slots to 3 instead of 6 increase the gun damage to compensate, and give the titan a 5% per level command bonus the command ships have now for a capital command link, increase current command ships to 4% and move t3 command ships to 3%. this will help bring titans back to the feild and provide an active role to make them want to stay on grid to risk themselves.

back to the top

You may be plesantly surprised. The problem I see with allowing DD's to hit subcaps again is they were primarily used on Interdictors so they could escape. This resulted in remote tracking Titans becoming a popular fleet concept which resulted in a nerf (because frankly, why should capital class turrets ever be able to 1-shot a frigate with a transveral of 3kms?). The other problem is creating a good reason for people to actually use them.

Titans will most likely get their change at the end of Fozzie's ship rework. He's done a great job with the changes so far, so we need to wait & see what he has in store for them. It might take awhile but I'd rather see them get a great rework that fits in with the other changes than change them now & be in the same position in 6 months time.

Personally I think there is nothing else to day... I mean you are pretty much correct!

In the past it made sense to do what they did. I remember back in IAC, when -A- was DDing everything under the sun...


Now days no one buys titans unless their alliance needs a portable jump bridge, and alot of times they just bat phone someone who does have a titan already.


Either they need to be given some glory again, or they need to come down in price to about 50-60b