These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Damaged T2 & Faction crystals

Author
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-02-28 17:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
Major Trant wrote:
A related minor problem is that when you do finally fit up your new laser boat, you can't fit damaged crystals to a grouped set of guns. You have to either undock with a loaded set of ungrouped guns, or a grouped set of unloaded guns and finish the job in space.

I've since discovered that you can pick up several damaged crystals while in station and drop them on a stack of weapons in the fittings window to load them, provided you pick up the correct quantity.

Thus I have edited the OP to remove this error.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#22 - 2013-02-28 18:00:53 UTC
This again?

Just knock it off. Bring the damaged crystals with you into combat so they get destroyed. Not doing so is your Choiceâ„¢.

Creating a new thread weeks later is poor campaigning.

Stop trying to get mechanics changed for your laziness.

Thank you.
Black Varanus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-03-01 00:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Varanus
Major Trant wrote:
Every base that I've set up in a PvP environment (Null, Low, RvB-High), in short order ends up with a shed load of slightly damaged T2 and Faction laser crystals that I've looted from various wreaks. The problem is that once damaged they cannot be repackaged and thus cannot be stacked. Eventually my inventory window starts complaining that it has too many stacks.....


Well, I can't understand why you aren't able to sell used stuff anyway. I would like to see this option ingame. CCP could make a new market just for that purpose. I don't know the proper word in english, in german it's called "Gebrauchtmarkt" so I'm guessing something like a renewal market in english. Anyone should be able to sell anything.

I would even welcome it if more things would deteriorate over time, so things would need repair or could be sold in a used stadium. Of course this shouldn't take up too much time. Maybe something like selling nanorepair bots which can be sold over the market system to repair your stuff. Should be a nice addition for the engineers. If made right it would feel more natural since all things deteriorate over time and could bring fun, but only if it doesn't take up too much time, like buying one for every ship part and each one need to be repaired one by one, that would just be annoying and take up too much time.

Regards,
Black Varanus
Sublime Rage
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#24 - 2013-03-01 11:34:20 UTC
i have over 1000 units of used t2 and faction crystals someone in a station and not only they take up a huge amount of room but i cannot even tell how damaged they are unless i load them up on some guns.thats a thing that should be changed in my opinion,give us the ability to see how damaged they are inside the station
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-03-21 14:21:41 UTC
The problem is even worse than I first thought. I've since discovered that they don't even need to be damaged. Once unpackaged there is no going back.

I discovered this after fitting up a new ship in a market hub. I've got hundreds of slightly damaged crystals in my home system, but I'd podded to the market hub to pick up the new ship and didn't want to fly back through low sec with no ammunition. Figured - buy new crystals, load them and if I don't fire them on the way home, I can reload with damaged crystals, repackage and sell the new ones. But no chance, they simply can't be repackaged, even if you only fit them briefly in station just to see the dps figures.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-03-21 17:23:03 UTC
Major Trant wrote:
The problem is even worse than I first thought. I've since discovered that they don't even need to be damaged. Once unpackaged there is no going back.

I discovered this after fitting up a new ship in a market hub. I've got hundreds of slightly damaged crystals in my home system, but I'd podded to the market hub to pick up the new ship and didn't want to fly back through low sec with no ammunition. Figured - buy new crystals, load them and if I don't fire them on the way home, I can reload with damaged crystals, repackage and sell the new ones. But no chance, they simply can't be repackaged, even if you only fit them briefly in station just to see the dps figures.


I think the problem is a matter that stacking on the client is the same as stacking on the server. This could be fairly easily handled by having a setting on the client that allows you to stack damaged items. It would show them as stacked, but in the database they would still be separate item stacks. The stack could then show the damage as an average.

Secondarily the problem with the market is that it only handles non-assembled objects and anything that can take damage must be repaired before being re-assembled. My guess is assembled items and unassembled items occupy different parts of the database. The unassembled item is a template for the assembled item.

So baring major changes to the way assembed items are handled, then you would either need an option to repair the item or some way to get an undamaged item from it.

Just a suggestion, but being to cut a crystal down to a lower size (say L to M or S), but undamaged would be cool. How far down it goes depends on how much damage was done. Basically you're cutting away the damaged parts till you have a perfect crystal again. Also they should fix it so that assembled, but undamaged crystals can be repackaged. Cutting them down is also very lore friendly.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#27 - 2013-03-22 00:04:27 UTC
/signed to something like this.

You can sell a stack of 537 Void M via multiple means, and if you blow someone up and loot 331 Void M from their wreck, the two stacks combine.

Laser crystals should work the same way.

Not really fussed how it is done, it just should be.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-03-22 08:15:11 UTC
Yeah, support this idea, even if there were some heavy loss associated with it it would be helpful.

ie. 3x 50% damaged crystals gives you 1 undamaged.

...

Nova Satar
Pator Tech School
#29 - 2013-03-22 11:23:49 UTC
its ammo dude, use them, and when you;re done with them, trash them. You can't expect to be able to repair your ammo and sell it after use.

They can't make it so crystals can be repaired, as it means aslong as there is a repair station, you have a never ending supply of virtually free ammo.
monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-03-22 11:29:24 UTC
Nova Satar wrote:
its ammo dude, use them, and when you;re done with them, trash them. You can't expect to be able to repair your ammo and sell it after use.

They can't make it so crystals can be repaired, as it means aslong as there is a repair station, you have a never ending supply of virtually free ammo.


this.

Ammo is, along with ships the most reliable isk sinks in the game. amarr already circumvent this with their standard ammo, their is no need or reason to make faction and t2 crystals easier to turn back into isk.
Xavier Quo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-03-22 12:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Quo
Yeah this really needs sorting out, it's pretty bad. Have played on and off for a few years and I have an insane, huge, unstackable mess of crystals that are not ordered by size, type, damage etc. It's horrific, especially for us ocd types that travel for hours just to consolidate & organise all our assets and ships into neat... piles.

3 options mentioned ITT/ that I can think of

1.give us a recrystallisation skill, costs isk to repair damage, don't care how expensive at level I or V etc
2.ability sell used crystals on market
3.make some kind of crystal reprocessing allowing merging of damaged crystals into less damaged or new ones. same or different sizes/types possible, could be a very simple or complex system.

Help our inventories not look like a f'ing ball pool! OopsLol
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#32 - 2013-03-22 18:36:30 UTC
Welcome to economics.


An item is only worth what you can get for it.

Just because a T2 packaged crystal is worth X does not mean a T2 unpackaged crystal is worth the same. It is worth what you can get for it, which is apparently it's mineral value.

To claim that a damaged crystal is worth millions is false. It's worth what you can sell it for. If you can't sell it on contracts, then use it or reprocess it and get the mineral value.

That said, I do feel your suggestion for being able to repair crystals using the undamaged portion of another crystal is fair. I even have a more EVE friendly suggestion: {Crystal Type} Polish. Create a mechanism where you can break down an existing crystal into as many matching units of crystal polish as it has undamaged percentage points left. Then allow crystal polish to repair matching crystals on a point for point basis. They could even have the process use skills to be fully efficient, allowing a base 75% efficiency on both breakdown and repair, with skills for making the polish and repairing both giving 5% per level to 100% efficiency with both skills at 5. Allow the crystal polishes to be sold on the market with the rest of the ammo, and you now have opportunity for bustling contract markets for used crystals by toons specialized in making the polish, and you have improved marketability of othewise unweildy crystals. Make sure you make 100 polish take up more space than the crystals and I'm pretty sure you have all the bases on however the more mischeivious elements of the player base will abuse this covered.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2013-03-22 18:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
I like it. A simple way is to just allow the damage crystals of the same type to be "added together" then round down to the nearest whole number. The result is the number of undamaged and stackable crystals. Could even lower the price of crystals a bit too.

Don't argue with Sol, he is just being grumpy.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2013-03-22 18:47:26 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Welcome to economics.


An item is only worth what you can get for it.

Just because a T2 packaged crystal is worth X does not mean a T2 unpackaged crystal is worth the same. It is worth what you can get for it, which is apparently it's mineral value.

To claim that a damaged crystal is worth millions is false. It's worth what you can sell it for. If you can't sell it on contracts, then use it or reprocess it and get the mineral value.


He isn't claiming that a damaged crystal is worth the undamaged crystal, but it is silly that a crystal worth say 1,000,000 isk undamaged is suddenly worth only 4,000 isk because of 1% damage. And he isn't looking for a solution that will let him sell the damaged crystal for 990,000 is either. He is simply asking that he be able to combine damaged crystals and get a smaller number back. It is not outlandish and helps with the inventory, could reduce the price of crystals, and we could add on skills if it is really felt to be necessary.


"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#35 - 2013-03-22 18:58:29 UTC
...and if you read my post below the part you quoted, you will see that I agree that what he wants is fair, and then present a solution that works well within the existing framework of EVE, requiring at minimum a menu option to convert the damage crystal into a matching type of polish to repair other crystals with, and if taken to it's logical extent creates new market opportunities and industrial paths to be explored.


As to the reasonableness of value, go buy a new car and drive it across the street to another dealership and try to sell it. Then try to buy it back again. Value isn't set by something's intrinsic worth, it's set by market forces and apparently voodoo. It doesn't even have to make sense in real life, why should a game be any more logical?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2013-03-22 19:17:57 UTC
If you wanted to include a skill use something like the following (you can use this in Excel):

# of crystals = rounddown((sum of crystal damage/(2-.2*skill level),0)

If you had no skill then skill level = 0. In the case of skill level 1 even with two 0.99 damaged crystals you'd get 1. But suppose you had 15 crystals with 0.99 damage at level1 you'd only get back 8 crystals. At level 5 you'd get back 14.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-03-22 19:54:36 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
If you wanted to include a skill use something like the following (you can use this in Excel):

# of crystals = rounddown((sum of crystal damage/(2-.2*skill level),0)

If you had no skill then skill level = 0. In the case of skill level 1 even with two 0.99 damaged crystals you'd get 1. But suppose you had 15 crystals with 0.99 damage at level1 you'd only get back 8 crystals. At level 5 you'd get back 14.


While it's a fine formula, please no more skills for very limited purposes. We already have Armor Resistance Phasing and the like.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2013-03-22 21:48:44 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
If you wanted to include a skill use something like the following (you can use this in Excel):

# of crystals = rounddown((sum of crystal damage/(2-.2*skill level),0)

If you had no skill then skill level = 0. In the case of skill level 1 even with two 0.99 damaged crystals you'd get 1. But suppose you had 15 crystals with 0.99 damage at level1 you'd only get back 8 crystals. At level 5 you'd get back 14.


While it's a fine formula, please no more skills for very limited purposes. We already have Armor Resistance Phasing and the like.


You don't have to train it, and it would be something like the ore processing ones so training it to level 3 or 4 shouldn't take that long.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-03-27 17:34:33 UTC
I'm sure that there are some much more elegant ways of dealing with this than the one I have suggested. New skills, new processes, new component parts. Sure. But I've just suggested something quick and dirty that CCP could implement in my lifetime which hopefully isn't game breaking. Please +1 the suggestion if you agree and then put forward more elegant ways of improving on it at a later date.
Previous page12