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Sec tags

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monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-03-21 12:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: monkfish2345
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Sec status has become redundant anyways. Having a low sec status doesn't prevent much, outside of making you a blinky target. Sec loss and limitations really do need looked at, for example having sec loss removed from lowsec outside of pod kills.


I would suggest going the opposite way and making sec status more meaningful. Allowing redemption of tags for sec status will just make it even more meaningless than it is right now.



the problem isn't exactly that the sec would become trivial. the issue is by giving it an ISK value, a good suicide gank could quite easily cover the cost from any sec redemption.

For it to be a workable solution, it would have to cost so much that it would not be viable to earn the money to recover your sec from suicide ganks.
When you then consider the amount of ship kills it actually takes to get you from 0.0 (suggest you wouldn't be able to by yourself positive sec, maybe not even above -1.99) back down to a point where you cannot enter high sec at all, the price would end up being hundreds if not billions of isk.

which would really make it only a useful feature to a fairly small % of players.

Considering there is already a perfectly viable alternative (grinding) I don't really see why CCP would try and implement and keep this in balance, it just isn't worth the time or effort.

edit: the other alternative would be to make sec punishments far more severe to limit the amount of possible offences before needing to buy up sec.
Onomerous
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-03-21 12:25:51 UTC
It does seem the desire for a theme park has reached the pirates as well. No problem with the ability to gank anywhere/anytime and no problem with it taking them time to bring up their sec status.

This is not a good idea.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-03-21 12:30:40 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Can someone explain to me why this is such a hotly desired feature? I don't really get it.



Go -10 and then try to grind up to -2.0 and you'll see why


Get a group of 4 people, train fast talk to 5 & do it in about 4 hours.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#44 - 2013-03-21 13:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Kinda completely removes the 'consequences' part from 'decisions'.

Talk about making Eve into a theme-park. Guess it's not just carebears that want easy mode.



DMC


-10 has only consequnces and nothing else. I am not speaking about gettin the - back i am speaking about earning isk by selling to those who want the sec back. -10 players are really in big need of more isk sources.

And how u say there are no consequnces. The guy that want to lower the minus will have to pay. Isk out of the pocket is the biggest possible consequence in EVE (except losing sp when poded).

Consequnces for grinding those tags lay in danger which is like 10 times bigger than farming anything else in wh and nullsec.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-03-21 14:53:32 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Kinda completely removes the 'consequences' part from 'decisions'.

Talk about making Eve into a theme-park. Guess it's not just carebears that want easy mode.



DMC


-10 has only consequnces and nothing else. I am not speaking about gettin the - back i am speaking about earning isk by selling to those who want the sec back. -10 players are really in big need of more isk sources.

And how u say there are no consequnces. The guy that want to lower the minus will have to pay. Isk out of the pocket is the biggest possible consequence in EVE (except losing sp when poded).

let's say some 0.0 alliance which name we don't know has good ISK sources so it can pay for these tags for its members.
What do we have in result?
Let's imagine.

Some "emergent" action in empire involving CONCORD.
Currentl;y : alliance needs to supply action by ships. After player gets too low SS he needs to go out of empire. Alliance needs lots of "fresh" members with good SS or members who ready to restlessly grind SS back. Either way it's not an easy task to make long actions.

Include SS tags: alliance needs to supply members by ships and SS tags. Players do their job and lose SS. When SS is too low to continue work player restores it by SS tag. Only limiting factor for action length is ISK. As long as it profitable - action can be endless.

I know who will support these tags most Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#46 - 2013-03-21 15:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Kinda completely removes the 'consequences' part from 'decisions'.

Talk about making Eve into a theme-park. Guess it's not just carebears that want easy mode.



DMC


-10 has only consequnces and nothing else. I am not speaking about gettin the - back i am speaking about earning isk by selling to those who want the sec back. -10 players are really in big need of more isk sources.

And how u say there are no consequnces. The guy that want to lower the minus will have to pay. Isk out of the pocket is the biggest possible consequence in EVE (except losing sp when poded).

Consequnces for grinding those tags lay in danger which is like 10 times bigger than farming anything else in wh and nullsec.


You went -10 fully knowing the consequences.

Easily buying your way out should NOT be an option, especially knowing how easy it is to kill people in game.

On top of that these tags would be a grievers wet dream. The problem is that there is way too much isk in the game and it is also way to easy to collect, so paying isk for a lift in security status is hardly if any punishment.

And as written by others before, it is not *that* hard to get your sec status up (a few hours), or duh, use one of the other 2 slots on your account to do with them what you cannot do with your -10 character.

Just accept the little extra work you have to do that come with your play style or move to null.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#47 - 2013-03-21 16:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
Both of u just said that guys need to spend isk to get the SS back. And i repeat there is no bigger punishment, or consenquence in EVE. Now it is really not that hard to get back the ss for FREE by farming for few hours.

All the ppl that grief now, they got lv 4 mission opened. When they lose a bit of SS they gain it pretty fast. With the tags ppl that choose them will be out of few bucks.

But the change will revitalize a bit lowsec because there will be people who will farm those tags and people who will chase the farmers.

Atm lot of small entities, solo pvpers are daunted cos of SS loss. The tags will get those people back on the ride for some isk which is i again repeat, if lost, the biggest consequence out there.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-03-21 18:03:33 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

Atm lot of small entities, solo pvpers are daunted cos of SS loss. The tags will get those people back on the ride for some isk which is i again repeat, if lost, the biggest consequence out there.


Aww, I feel so sorry for the poor solo pvpers, daunted by the fact that they can't kill everyone with impunity. You story just brings me to tears. We should setup a charity fund or something to help these poor souls.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#49 - 2013-03-21 18:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
It's a great concept, it is a buff to asteroid belt pvp.

The Tears Must Flow
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#50 - 2013-03-21 18:53:45 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

Atm lot of small entities, solo pvpers are daunted cos of SS loss. The tags will get those people back on the ride for some isk which is i again repeat, if lost, the biggest consequence out there.


Aww, I feel so sorry for the poor solo pvpers, daunted by the fact that they can't kill everyone with impunity. You story just brings me to tears. We should setup a charity fund or something to help these poor souls.


There is punishment, that guy loses the isk by purchasing the tags.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-03-21 18:55:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

Atm lot of small entities, solo pvpers are daunted cos of SS loss. The tags will get those people back on the ride for some isk which is i again repeat, if lost, the biggest consequence out there.


Aww, I feel so sorry for the poor solo pvpers, daunted by the fact that they can't kill everyone with impunity. You story just brings me to tears. We should setup a charity fund or something to help these poor souls.


There is punishment, that guy loses the isk by purchasing the tags.


As mentioned above, that really isn't much of a punishment if your part of a large null alliance or have lots of real life money to buy plex.

Actions have consequences, and enless Eve becomes Care Bear ships in space then you have to grind your standing up like everyone else.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2013-03-21 19:03:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

Atm lot of small entities, solo pvpers are daunted cos of SS loss. The tags will get those people back on the ride for some isk which is i again repeat, if lost, the biggest consequence out there.


Aww, I feel so sorry for the poor solo pvpers, daunted by the fact that they can't kill everyone with impunity. You story just brings me to tears. We should setup a charity fund or something to help these poor souls.


There is punishment, that guy loses the isk by purchasing the tags.


As mentioned above, that really isn't much of a punishment if your part of a large null alliance or have lots of real life money to buy plex.

Actions have consequences, and enless Eve becomes Care Bear ships in space then you have to grind your standing up like everyone else.


Doesnt metter if u are part of a large whealty entity. Those lose isk too. When they go into war they loose ships and therefore isk, when u get scammed u lose assets therefor isk. When u do a bad move on market u lose isk. The only thing what counts is if u gain or lose isk.

Now to get SS back aint much of a problem especially for members of nulsec alliances. They make a group and rise the sec in no time. The cost is time and time is again the missed isk they could earn.

It is basically the same thing. Or u farm and lose time for which u could earn isk. Or u lose more isk by purchasing tags. Except tags will bring new opportunities, choices and consequences in lowsec.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-03-22 01:03:40 UTC
Sorry, nobody twisted their arms to go -10. Talk about hand-holding, using tags to regain Security Status is nothing more than a free 'Get Out Of Jail' card.

They made the decision and as such should reap the consequences. As it is right now, security status can be easily regained within a few hours to allow access back into high security systems.

Seems the general consensus is to have these tags implemented in low sec which will get more players roaming in low security systems. I call Bullsh*t on that. More like it will give the negative security status players easy access to farm their free 'Get Out Of Jail' cards, plain and simple.

Want more players in low security systems? Then CCP should enact the 3 strike rule.

Players are allowed to go below -5.0 security status 3 times. After that they're considered a habitual offender and can no longer regain security status. Since they made the decision to become a full fledged Pirate, they can forever roam the lawlessness of low security space.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-03-22 01:07:51 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


Players are allowed to go below -5.0 security status 3 times. After that they're considered a habitual offender and can no longer regain security status. Since they made the decision to become a full fledged Pirate, they can forever roam the lawlessness of low security space.


DMC


That would be amusing. The pirate tears alone would be implementing such an idea. :)
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#55 - 2013-03-22 01:21:44 UTC
"using tags to regain Security Status is nothing more than a free 'Get Out Of Jail' card. "

This seems to be true. A -10 pirate with dozens of kills and ganks just walzing over to the nearest hub and paying a few bil (likely less) to get back to 0 sec status lessens the consequences of sec hits by a massive amount for any rich vet. It cheapens the entire sec status system.

Perhaps if a sec status booster dropped, but entirely bypassing the sec status system for anyone with isk really cheapens that part of the game.
Bohoba
#56 - 2013-03-22 02:01:50 UTC
mechtech wrote:
"using tags to regain Security Status is nothing more than a free 'Get Out Of Jail' card. "

This seems to be true. A -10 pirate with dozens of kills and ganks just walzing over to the nearest hub and paying a few bil (likely less) to get back to 0 sec status lessens the consequences of sec hits by a massive amount for any rich vet. It cheapens the entire sec status system.

Perhaps if a sec status booster dropped, but entirely bypassing the sec status system for anyone with isk really cheapens that part of the game.



have to admit this would be a fail of ccp if allowed

if they allow this then I want to be able to erase my corp history

and I want


and I want

and I want


:) see were that goes already :)
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#57 - 2013-03-22 15:17:35 UTC
mechtech wrote:
"using tags to regain Security Status is nothing more than a free 'Get Out Of Jail' card. "

This seems to be true. A -10 pirate with dozens of kills and ganks just walzing over to the nearest hub and paying a few bil (likely less) to get back to 0 sec status lessens the consequences of sec hits by a massive amount for any rich vet. It cheapens the entire sec status system.

Perhaps if a sec status booster dropped, but entirely bypassing the sec status system for anyone with isk really cheapens that part of the game.


harder consequence is to pay few bills than go and farm it back in no time for free :D

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Onomerous
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-03-22 17:30:04 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
mechtech wrote:
"using tags to regain Security Status is nothing more than a free 'Get Out Of Jail' card. "

This seems to be true. A -10 pirate with dozens of kills and ganks just walzing over to the nearest hub and paying a few bil (likely less) to get back to 0 sec status lessens the consequences of sec hits by a massive amount for any rich vet. It cheapens the entire sec status system.

Perhaps if a sec status booster dropped, but entirely bypassing the sec status system for anyone with isk really cheapens that part of the game.


harder consequence is to pay few bills than go and farm it back in no time for free :D


Then go and farm it back in no time for free!!! CCP already fixed the problem!! Wo0tage for CCP
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#59 - 2013-03-22 17:47:34 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
mechtech wrote:
"using tags to regain Security Status is nothing more than a free 'Get Out Of Jail' card. "

This seems to be true. A -10 pirate with dozens of kills and ganks just walzing over to the nearest hub and paying a few bil (likely less) to get back to 0 sec status lessens the consequences of sec hits by a massive amount for any rich vet. It cheapens the entire sec status system.

Perhaps if a sec status booster dropped, but entirely bypassing the sec status system for anyone with isk really cheapens that part of the game.


harder consequence is to pay few bills than go and farm it back in no time for free :D


Then go and farm it back in no time for free!!! CCP already fixed the problem!! Wo0tage for CCP


Well i am doing it whenever i want. it is not hard. But more choices is always better.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2013-03-22 18:13:18 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Sorry, nobody twisted their arms to go -10. Talk about hand-holding, using tags to regain Security Status is nothing more than a free 'Get Out Of Jail' card.

They made the decision and as such should reap the consequences. As it is right now, security status can be easily regained within a few hours to allow access back into high security systems.

Seems the general consensus is to have these tags implemented in low sec which will get more players roaming in low security systems. I call Bullsh*t on that. More like it will give the negative security status players easy access to farm their free 'Get Out Of Jail' cards, plain and simple.

Want more players in low security systems? Then CCP should enact the 3 strike rule.

Players are allowed to go below -5.0 security status 3 times. After that they're considered a habitual offender and can no longer regain security status. Since they made the decision to become a full fledged Pirate, they can forever roam the lawlessness of low security space.


DMC



Or add some sort of diminishing returns on use of sec tags.. maybe a negative standing with the agent you use to turn them in? Like, cashing in favors. Eventually that person is going to get tired of having to do those favors.

That way it is atleast limiting.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.