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THE UNIFIED ACCOUNT THEORY
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Stegas Tyrano
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-03-08 15:35:09 UTC
+1

Herping your derp since 19Potato - [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2403364][Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts[/url]
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-03-08 15:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Pan Dora wrote:

And something like that its what most, if not all, players will do. More alts available for the same/lower cost its to big a advantage to not exploit. The end result its that CCP will have more workload and less subscription income, with several awful side-effects.


It is not an exploit, it is a feature, and you will pay for it, all also all new player will think: "Good deal!" and will pay for it.

The exploit is the creation of trial accounts that will not be turned into paying accounts, ( that happens massively) this gives much more workload and side-effects then this feature would do.

And keep in mind that there is always something more that you would train in your alt...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-03-08 16:37:34 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:

Maybe someone from CCP staff having some data in hands could collect some real data and bring them here. This is a feature that need statistical analysis to be proved. (I could do that If I were a CCP employee).

I'm betting that most of the players that have cyno alts, market analyzer alts, spy alts and whatever. Don't pay a cent for them. they are all trial accounts or fake buddys, with this feature they would have a reason to pay, and they would, so for every alt ccp would get at last 1/3 of a plex.


You need to read the skill descriptions again. and you need to think long and hard about how accounts are made and maintained.

Alx Warlord wrote:

Also If you want to keep training one of these alts you would activate a second training. And again, I bet that allot of people will do this, even those who don't have alts right now would be tempted to do so.


once a cyno alt or any of the other activities that alts are created for are trained, one does not in general continue to train them. I would be tempted to maintain a larger stock of alts if i was not required to pay for their use as i am now.

Alx Warlord wrote:

For those old players that already have everything they want with the level they want, indeed, they may represent a long term decrease in the income, but for the amount merging ccp would get a god amount of cash and if for some reason the player wants to keep investing in the game there will be no decrease at all (and CCP and the player will gain with this)

For the new players, there will be much more possibilities to Invest money into the game. And I bet that even those who have short money, would spend some Account pool time creating and improving some alts, or during some emergency activating all alts to bring them to the fray.


Why would it be different then it is now with the other characters per account? other then there are a larger supply potentially available?

I am also confused as to account number (active training que numbers) vs concurrent online character number, when it comes to allowing me to online alts at the same time, is there a different fee? or simply time taken from the pool of account time left ?
because if i can activate fifteen alts at once but only for say mining operations, and not in general throug out the week, and pay for only the time out of the pool that i am actually useing the mining alts, i cant see how this would gain ccp money in the long run over what they currently do.

Alx Warlord wrote:

I also bet that the good portion of the huge number of player that start and stop playing eve are alts.

And if you are a EVE lover, the more alts you have the more alts you want. I know a guy that have 10 accounts, and I bet that with this feature he would merge all into 1 and would keep paying for 10, as he wants to keep training all his army (Today they fly carriers and dreads, but he wants to reach supercap level on all them.+ his 20 cyno alts...)


i do not believe that he is representative of the general alt holding community.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-03-09 03:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Kusum Fawn wrote:
You need to read the skill descriptions again. and you need to think long and hard about how accounts are made and maintained.
Use the buddy system to create your alt. give it a plex instead of plexing your account. and then you get a 50 day paid alt account for "free". That is how you go around the "Can't be trained on trial account" stuff.
Kusum Fawn wrote:
once a cyno alt or any of the other activities that alts are created for are trained, one does not in general continue to train them. I would be tempted to maintain a larger stock of alts if i was not required to pay for their use as i am now.
So in this case you would be tempted to pay for something that otherwise you wouldn't, that is how CCP will get most of the extra monney. Also many players don't only goes for cyno alt... they want also a SB alt, or a prober alt... there are many situations... not only Null-sec... and I see a big opportunity in this.
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Why would it be different then it is now with the other characters per account? other then there are a larger supply potentially available?
This would offer some comfort, so you don't have to create and train the alt every-time, you can spend just some money and have them forever without needing to pay allot like it is today, also if CCP makes a small promotion like the second training char gets 5-10% discount then people would see more benefits in expanding their account then creating a new one.
Kusum Fawn wrote:

I am also confused as to account number (active training que numbers) vs concurrent online character number, when it comes to allowing me to online alts at the same time, is there a different fee? or simply time taken from the pool of account time left ?
because if i can activate fifteen alts at once but only for say mining operations, and not in general throug out the week, and pay for only the time out of the pool that i am actually using the mining alts, i cant see how this would gain ccp money in the long run over what they currently do.
It is the same fee (Unless ccp gives a discount). For every training char in the account you can log 1 char, so if you want to log 15 chars in the account you would have to start 15 training queues, that would consume the pool in a 15x factor(- discounts and possible promotions). But Remember, if you start a training queues there is a time before you can turn it off to prevent explot ( say it 1 day for now). So if you want to participate into a 1 time mining operation you woud start 15 training queues and after 24h you would stop them. In this time you can mine with them as much as you want. If you think about it, unless this OP would last for a whole month, you wouldn't be paying 15 accounts just to mine once in a month so you wouldn't give ccp any monney in this case, but if you have the option to play with your chars just for a day and you think that worth it, you would be paying at last 1,5 plex to activate this 15 chars for a whole day.


"i do not believe that he is representative of the general alt holding community."

That is why this Idea would only be acceptable if there is a Statistical work from some cpp member. The proposal is to them start this study.

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#25 - 2013-03-18 16:22:37 UTC
People who do bad things will take measures to hide them. They will not place their botting characters in the same super account as their regular characters. And they will do whatever they can to make it look like the two super accounts are owned by two separate people. Result: CCP has exactly the same problem in linking characters to people as they have now.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-03-18 16:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Vincent Athena wrote:
People who do bad things will take measures to hide them. They will not place their botting characters in the same super account as their regular characters. And they will do whatever they can to make it look like the two super accounts are owned by two separate people. Result: CCP has exactly the same problem in linking characters to people as they have now.


But did you see that it will increase the effort needed to have a botting account? People would possible need to pay more for the botting accout then it would need to pay for a second char in the same account. So people would be less willng to BOT.

Also now CCP have reason to limit 1 account per credit-card number, as things are now unified, and there is no need for a second account other then breaking the EULA.

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Irongut
Sex Money Guns
#27 - 2013-03-18 18:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Irongut
Linking all characters into one account is probably a good idea because it could benefit both CCP and the players. But you have confused the idea by talking about the number of training characters on the account. Forget that nonsense. Come up with a way to describe a monthly account credit that costs 1 plex and allow people to consume more than one per month. That is then the number of characters they can log in simultaneously, the number that can be training, etc. Also switching to the new system would have to be mandatory & free or no one would use it.

But even with some changes to make it usable I won't support you because of this:

Alx Warlord wrote:

1. None. There are 2 options here, and they are really easy to program, 1 or 2 lines of code can solve this.


No change is ever 1 or 2 lines of code and all programmers hate you for your stupid dismissal of our jobs as easy. If it's so easy you go write your own internet spaceships game or stfu.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-03-18 21:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Irongut wrote:
Linking all characters into one account is probably a good idea because it could benefit both CCP and the players. But you have confused the idea by talking about the number of training characters on the account. Forget that nonsense. Come up with a way to describe a monthly account credit that costs 1 plex and allow people to consume more than one per month. That is then the number of characters they can log in simultaneously, the number that can be training, etc. Also switching to the new system would have to be mandatory & free or no one would use it.

But even with some changes to make it usable I won't support you because of this:

Alx Warlord wrote:

1. None. There are 2 options here, and they are really easy to program, 1 or 2 lines of code can solve this.


No change is ever 1 or 2 lines of code and all programmers hate you for your stupid dismissal of our jobs as easy. If it's so easy you go write your own internet spaceships game or stfu.


If you read it again, I said that the logic to allow a character to log or not log is something simple. and YES the logic can be resumed to a line, If you are a programmer you should know more then anyone else that what a programmer do is to Take a complex Task and split it into simpler comands. Like "IF logged_chars > Maximum_allowed THEN log_permission = False" simple and clear logic. And I also mean that there is nothing impossible to programers, it only take more or less time to do, there is no such thing as dificult. I respect and admire Programers, they are are the ones that wil set the parameters for the new era that the human kind is entering since everything is related to computer and informatics...

I am a programer, and over it I'm a mechanical engieer that applies programming logic to solve real life problems. I don't design Internet spaceships, I design real stuff, (at the moment aircrafts and a new energy management systems that could be applied in spaceships btw...),

But setting our differences asside, Thx for apreciating the main Idea...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-03-19 14:14:09 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Irongut wrote:
Linking all characters into one account is probably a good idea because it could benefit both CCP and the players. But you have confused the idea by talking about the number of training characters on the account. Forget that nonsense. Come up with a way to describe a monthly account credit that costs 1 plex and allow people to consume more than one per month. That is then the number of characters they can log in simultaneously, the number that can be training, etc. Also switching to the new system would have to be mandatory & free or no one would use it.

But even with some changes to make it usable I won't support you because of this:

Alx Warlord wrote:

1. None. There are 2 options here, and they are really easy to program, 1 or 2 lines of code can solve this.


No change is ever 1 or 2 lines of code and all programmers hate you for your stupid dismissal of our jobs as easy. If it's so easy you go write your own internet spaceships game or stfu.


If you read it again, I said that the logic to allow a character to log or not log is something simple. and YES the logic can be resumed to a line, If you are a programmer you should know more then anyone else that what a programmer do is to Take a complex Task and split it into simpler commands. Like "IF logged_chars > Maximum_allowed THEN log_permission = False" simple and clear logic. And I also mean that there is nothing impossible to programmers, it only take more or less time to do, there is no such thing as difficult. I respect and admire Programmers, they are are the ones that will set the parameters for the new era that the human kind is entering since everything is related to computer and informatics...

I am a programmer, and over it I'm a mechanical engineer that applies programming logic to solve real life problems. I don't design Internet spaceships, I design real stuff, (at the moment aircraft and a new energy management systems that could be applied in spaceships btw...),

But setting our differences aside, Thanks for appreciating the main Idea...


"IF logged_chars > Maximum_allowed THEN log_permission = False"

Now, you need to define logged_Chars that's another 4 to 5 lines of code

now you need to redefine log_Permissions now that a few extra lines of coding

Maximum_Allowed: Now you have to redefine this, which is some extra lines of coding.

then you now need to debug it to make sure you didn't break any other code that could be tied to other predefined... But you are a programmer right? So you know all about this. I myself am not a programmer, My major is actually in CIS or computer information systems I deal with how software talks to hardware and vis-versa, and I'm still forced to learn the basics of programming.

I also fixed all your spelling mistakes in my quote.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”
Pan Dora
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-03-19 15:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Pan Dora
Alx Warlord wrote:
Pan Dora wrote:

3rd month: I just pay to train my main, at this point I have a total of 18 characters. I already started to save subscription money to maintain all this characters.

And something like that its what most, if not all, players will do. More alts available for the same/lower cost its to big a advantage to not exploit.* The end result its that CCP will have more workload and less subscription income, with several awful side-effects.


It is not an exploit, it is a feature, and you will pay for it, all also all new player will think: "Good deal!" and will pay for it.

The exploit is the creation of trial accounts that will not be turned into paying accounts, ( that happens massively) this gives much more workload and side-effects then this feature would do.

And keep in mind that there is always something more that you would train in your alt...


edited above to put back the point you choose to ignore. Your ideia makes WAAAAYYYYY Cheaper to maintain an alt army.

*Its to good a advantage to not use. Your whole answer its moot snce you misinterpreted my semantics. I'm thinking that you made it on purprose so you keep the thread alive while not answering to the critics the idea its receiving.

-CCP would boost ECM so it also block the ability of buthurt posting.
Tweaks Huren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-03-19 20:16:50 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Mikaila Penshar wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
TL;DR version:

Allow players to merge all accounts into one and log on them with no problem.


but why?



The idea is to give CCP an easy way to track the players instead of the characters, so they would be able to have a measure on this and also to maybe give some benefits for those who contribute to the game having many alts, and lowering entrance barriers in the game.

in other words: Help in statistic, that are base for decisions. and maybe will make people activate more alts and give more money to CCP, so they will hire more DEVS and develop a better game faster.

I think CCP can easily track that information based on billing information. I don't see the added value of this suggestion.

-1
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-03-20 16:55:14 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:


"IF logged_chars > Maximum_allowed THEN log_permission = False"

Now, you need to define logged_Chars that's another 4 to 5 lines of code

now you need to redefine log_Permissions now that a few extra lines of coding

Maximum_Allowed: Now you have to redefine this, which is some extra lines of coding.

then you now need to debug it to make sure you didn't break any other code that could be tied to other predefined... But you are a programmer right? So you know all about this. I myself am not a programmer, My major is actually in CIS or computer information systems I deal with how software talks to hardware and vis-versa, and I'm still forced to learn the basics of programming.


Yep, that is preatty much it. Don't you think that this part is simple? well, at last for you? despite the fact that it will take some time to review, compile, run, review compile, run again and publish?

I think that the hardest part would be to creaete the new UI to manage this feature, and change the acess permission on the DB. (Most of the subscription information is probably in different DBs.)

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-03-20 17:00:07 UTC
Pan Dora wrote:


edited above to put back the point you choose to ignore. Your ideia makes WAAAAYYYYY Cheaper to maintain an alt army.

*Its to good a advantage to not use. Your whole answer its moot snce you misinterpreted my semantics. I'm thinking that you made it on purprose so you keep the thread alive while not answering to the critics the idea its receiving.


So, do you think that lockng the characters in blocks of 3 would be a good Idea? So you can only access them if you pay for the stack? allowing to train 1 of them at a time? (more like the way it is now but with a better interface an slight discount on alt accounts subscription.) ?

What can be done to make this interesting?

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-20 17:04:27 UTC
Tweaks Huren wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
Mikaila Penshar wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
TL;DR version:

Allow players to merge all accounts into one and log on them with no problem.


but why?



The idea is to give CCP an easy way to track the players instead of the characters, so they would be able to have a measure on this and also to maybe give some benefits for those who contribute to the game having many alts, and lowering entrance barriers in the game.

in other words: Help in statistic, that are base for decisions. and maybe will make people activate more alts and give more money to CCP, so they will hire more DEVS and develop a better game faster.

I think CCP can easily track that information based on billing information. I don't see the added value of this suggestion.

-1


different accounts from diferent persons can be payd by the same person. like a father paying for their soons, or 1 guy gathering their friends monney and paying for them (this happens). would you ban everyone just because of 1? I don't think that CCP does this...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Tweaks Huren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-03-20 20:49:09 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Tweaks Huren wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
Mikaila Penshar wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
TL;DR version:

Allow players to merge all accounts into one and log on them with no problem.


but why?



The idea is to give CCP an easy way to track the players instead of the characters, so they would be able to have a measure on this and also to maybe give some benefits for those who contribute to the game having many alts, and lowering entrance barriers in the game.

in other words: Help in statistic, that are base for decisions. and maybe will make people activate more alts and give more money to CCP, so they will hire more DEVS and develop a better game faster.

I think CCP can easily track that information based on billing information. I don't see the added value of this suggestion.

-1


different accounts from diferent persons can be payd by the same person. like a father paying for their soons, or 1 guy gathering their friends monney and paying for them (this happens). would you ban everyone just because of 1? I don't think that CCP does this...



I know this... The thing is that there is no way for CCP to know if an account is being shared or not between players or not. The only thing that could potentially tie an account with another one is the account information itself (address, name, email, billing info etc...). You can't use the IP address of the client since multiple different accounts could come from the same network and would be legit, and you can't prevent someone from running multiple clients on the same computer because they also could be legit accounts (i.e. playing a friend's account while he's on vacation or something like that).

What you suggest if I understand correctly is to offer a voluntary option for players to merge their accounts and share pools of pilot licenses. For this to work and be worth it, there would have to be major incentives for players to merge their multiple accounts, such as major rebates for PLEX when using merged accounts, or something similar. That said, there are still thousands of players which would just stay with separate accounts and there is no proper way for CCP to force people to merge them since they can't know for sure if two accounts belong to the same person or not.

Bottom line, in my opinion, is that for this to work and be worth it, it would need to be all or nothing. Either everybody merges their accounts, or nobody does. That said, as long as you can create new merged "master accounts" using different billing information or email, then people will be able to split their accounts.
Pan Dora
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-03-21 03:07:44 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Pan Dora wrote:


edited above to put back the point you choose to ignore. Your ideia makes WAAAAYYYYY Cheaper to maintain an alt army.

*Its to good a advantage to not use. Your whole answer its moot snce you misinterpreted my semantics. I'm thinking that you made it on purprose so you keep the thread alive while not answering to the critics the idea its receiving.


So, do you think that lockng the characters in blocks of 3 would be a good Idea? So you can only access them if you pay for the stack? allowing to train 1 of them at a time? (more like the way it is now but with a better interface an slight discount on alt accounts subscription.) ?

What can be done to make this interesting?


That is looking reasonable. I think locking characters on blocks of 3 its not needed. Just maintaining the 3:1 ratio of characters available/training its probably enough to not making this too big advantage but still encourage people to do it. (it would work like free character transfers for accounts of same owner).

So, what your idea about that new interface? I can imagine some sort of 'master password' that can be used to access several accounts character list, the player select which ones to connect. Maybe connected/training character get some highlight (that can be turned off). There can be security concerns, but I suppose its pretty common practice among multi-account users to use the same password anyway.

Some other points that deserve some consideration:
what if a player have 3 accounts unified and decide to sell 3 characters (lets suppose a char block if its how its implemented). Can he turn his 3 Unified accounts into 2 unified accounts? Can he turn his 3 unified account into 3 independent accounts? Can he put just 1 of his 3 unified accounts into unsubscribed status? If yes, what happens with the characters of the unsubscribed account?

-CCP would boost ECM so it also block the ability of buthurt posting.
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#37 - 2013-03-21 05:45:22 UTC
I'm still a 1-account player, but I honestly think this could work well.

Could you also log into the same account, and use a different character?
I'd like to be able to do that

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#38 - 2013-03-21 07:40:16 UTC
And a single API-Check will reveal my private army?

Also i don´t want to merge my accounts. It´s working at them moment (with now downside).

NEVER TOUCH A RUNNING SYSTEM

My true stories
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-03-22 00:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
StoneCold wrote:
And a single API-Check will reveal my private army?

Also i don´t want to merge my accounts. It´s working at them moment (with now downside).

NEVER TOUCH A RUNNING SYSTEM


Full API? Probably. Buty ou can always give a partial API, if you have something to hide, or want to scam someone.

Manny Botters and RMTs like the current system too.

KAIZEN my friend, KAIZEN! Every ccp change touch a Running system.

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-05-07 01:56:45 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
I'm still a 1-account player, but I honestly think this could work well.

Could you also log into the same account, and use a different character?
I'd like to be able to do that

Yes in this idea...

I would like too...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
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