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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Here something for you all to chew on!

Author
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-03-20 23:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: DataRunner Attor
What if jump drives had an exhaust timer?

Now now before you panic it quite simple, as people know, most machines can only work for so long before they require a down time! So to speak.

Now how would it work would be quite simple to understand yet complex to master.

Now lets say that for every jump an exhaust timer is added to the jump drive, however this by no means prevent you from jumping! For the reasons to make a debate lets say that the timer is 5 minutes long. However you can still continue to jump drive all you want with extra added jump you make, an extra five minutes is added to the timer.

Now this is where the exhaust timer comes into play, at some point of constant jumping puts a strain on the system and the heat from the constant use cause the system to shut down and force you to wait out the exhaust timer cause you now have taxed the system beyond capabilities. So lets just say that number is 30 minutes. So that means you can make 6 jumps in a row before taxing your systems, or you can wait between jumps for those so many minutes so you can jump without worry.

So lets say I am 2 jumps away from my target and can jump those two jumps and have a 10 minute cool down timer to wait out, or continue to jump and add more time to that timer (of course till it reaches 30 minutes.)

Now, first I would like to say that all the numbers posted are variable and can be changed at any time.

If you made it this far I want to thank you for actually reading the thread and not skimming it, second you may say no and tell me I'm just blowing smoke out of my behind, or you can provide constructive feed back, don't matter which. Though constructive feed back will provide me on building bigger and better ideas and help me avoid the bad ones.

Questions and answers down here:

DataRunner Attor wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So to get a little better understanding, would the timer be increased per jump or per light year traveled ?


per jump. Like I said, I don't want to cripple the system, though this is an idea, if you can come up with a compelling argument that pushes it towards that direction of per light year then all means make it! All idea makers should always be open to change which is something that is rather...lacking as of late in the features and ideas sector.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#2 - 2013-03-20 23:56:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Actually...

... this not a bad idea.


Has hell frozen over? Are pigs flying? Is Elvis alive after all????
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#3 - 2013-03-21 00:07:25 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Actually...

... this not a bad idea.


Has hell frozen over? Are pigs flying? Is Elvis alive after all????

This is rare.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#4 - 2013-03-21 00:09:00 UTC
Limits force projection without limiting force projection, I like it.

On a side note I was just thinking about the idea of limiting Titan jumps to cyno field arrays only, bridging would remain as normal.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Plyn
Uncharted.
#5 - 2013-03-21 00:38:46 UTC
Things to consider:

1. Pilots make n jumps and then logout to do dishes. They come back 20 mins later and login to roll out. Sounds neither fun nor interesting.

2. Capital/Alt (depending on where it is tracked) networks develop where people jump into a new ship, new character, or both at a pre-planned destination.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#6 - 2013-03-21 00:48:47 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Actually...

... this not a bad idea.


Has hell frozen over? Are pigs flying? Is Elvis alive after all????

This is rare.

Indeed. It's simple yet elegant. It allows people to do what they did before but not to the same extent (which is the idea) and the penalties are not overly punitive.
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-03-21 00:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: DataRunner Attor
Plyn wrote:
Things to consider:

1. Pilots make n jumps and then logout to do dishes. They come back 20 mins later and login to roll out. Sounds neither fun nor interesting.

2. Capital/Alt (depending on where it is tracked) networks develop where people jump into a new ship, new character, or both at a pre-planned destination.



Okay, I shall provide simple counter points. Most cap pilots are alts and once the get to their destination and unload, they log out and play on their main. Remember I say most, not all. Second, if it is their main and that all they do is freighter, then number two will be as follows.

For number two, this idea provides capital ships pilots a choice. They may make a choice of distance, capitalizing on their fuel bay to lets say jump 6 light years in two jumps thus exhausting their fuel This means that they get somewhere and reload on fuel the capitalizing on their fuel bay again to make it back to high sec and slow boat it through high sec, and seeing this only affects jump drives and not warp drives. The other basic choice would be is one can suffer the penalty of jumping many times for safety and precision.

for number three, if you are in a low sec limited capital ship, most carriers dreadnoughts and titans don't go anywhere without a good reason to, like a target in a hotdrop, or the need for pos destruction/fleet battles. This in turn forces alliance command to already have their capital ship pilots in place in certain locations so that they can provide cap ship support.

The idea was generated around these two outstanding conditions. 1: It won't cripple the current jump drive system to the point of unusability. 2: limit force projection without limiting force projection if you get what I mean, thus making it a requirement to preplan your defense forces, and not just make a WTF defense force from the deepest part of your alliance and throw them at the invading forces.

Now I do agree with you though that this idea is a bit rough around the edges.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#8 - 2013-03-21 01:10:21 UTC
So to get a little better understanding, would the timer be increased per jump or per light year traveled ?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-03-21 01:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: DataRunner Attor
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So to get a little better understanding, would the timer be increased per jump or per light year traveled ?


per jump. Like I said, I don't want to cripple the system, though this is an idea, if you can come up with a compelling argument that pushes it towards that direction of per light year then all means make it! All idea makers should always be open to change which is something that is rather...lacking as of late in the features and ideas sector.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#10 - 2013-03-21 02:53:14 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So to get a little better understanding, would the timer be increased per jump or per light year traveled ?


per jump. Like I said, I don't want to cripple the system, though this is an idea, if you can come up with a compelling argument that pushes it towards that direction of per light year then all means make it! All idea makers should always be open to change which is something that is rather...lacking as of late in the features and ideas sector.

It is a toss up
By light year limits distance projection while leaving local coverage alone for the most part.
By jump hampers local coverage but allows for great distances to be achieved.

There is positive to be said for both.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Luc Chastot
#11 - 2013-03-21 05:40:14 UTC
Sticky please.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#12 - 2013-03-21 05:42:46 UTC
As long as you can get a module or skill that can reduce cooldown times I'm completely OK with this idea

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt

Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#13 - 2013-03-21 06:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrael Dinn
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
As long as you can get a module or skill that can reduce cooldown times I'm completely OK with this idea


How about rigs to reduce cooltime or something that effects this. Would make the fitting more interesting.

But yes this sounds rather interesting.

btw say if you dock up. Would stations provide "instant repair" to yor engines and after you undock the time is reduced to 0min or would the engines be always at that level of stress that you cannot reduce the cooltime in any other way except just waiting the times out and mayby having rigs/skils/etc on your ship.

Would there be a possibility that you might destroy your jump engines and thus leaving your stranded somewhere unless you ger some specialized repairs? (im seeing nanite paste in my mind atm Twisted)

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Radhe Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-03-21 07:21:08 UTC
this is a nice idea.....and i agree with having a skill to reduce timer.

It makes sense for the jump engines to have a limit....and to make thing even more interesting don't force the jump engines to shut down at 30 minutes...allow the players to continue jumping past that at the risk of burning out the jump engines....thus needing repair at a pos or a station (not sure if it can be implemented) after all its a sandbox player choice is everything :D
But it will add more strategy to the game meaning u`ll need to plan the jump routes and the deployment of capital ships in ones territory.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#15 - 2013-03-21 07:25:30 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
btw say if you dock up. Would stations provide "instant repair" to yor engines and after you undock the time is reduced to 0min or would the engines be always at that level of stress that you cannot reduce the cooltime in any other way except just waiting the times out and mayby having rigs/skils/etc on your ship.

I wouldn't be very keen on the docking, insta-ready thing. Capacitor levels are currently the only "cooldown" mechanic limiting capital ships from jumping across the map over and over again... and it is easily circumvented by docking as you pointed out or through cap transfers.

Adding rigs to assist in the cooldown would be interesting... skills though... I find questionable. They would just another thing a good capital pilot must train to be considered "competent" (on top of an already long and painful list).

Azrael Dinn wrote:
Would there be a possibility that you might destroy your jump engines and thus leaving your stranded somewhere unless you ger some specialized repairs? (im seeing nanite paste in my mind atm Twisted)

Not too fond of this idea. One of the reasons I like the OP's timer is that, again, it's "punitive" without being overly so (IMO of course).
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#16 - 2013-03-21 12:41:55 UTC
I have to agree with ShahFluffers that a skill would just become another mandatory thing for cap pilots. Rigs would force a bit of extra decision making when fitting a ship and that is never a bad thing.
But what kind of draw back would these use?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-03-21 14:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: DataRunner Attor
The thing is though is if you use a skill, as Shah said, that's just one more thing you are forced to train, however if you use fittings, yes that can make even more decision but it would leave the ship that can't fit module, like the jump freighter alittle lacking in the department of reducing the cooldown timer. While rigs would be interesting, it would just mean that freighters will have to get a skill that they will be forced to trained, to compensate with their inability to equip things.

Quote:
Would there be a possibility that you might destroy your jump engines and thus leaving your stranded somewhere unless you ger some specialized repairs? (im seeing nanite paste in my mind atm )


That could be a little game breaking for some pilots as if they burned out their engines and had no one that could come and rep them, they would be forced to train an alt up for repping and hope it makes it there before they system is over run by hostiles. The timer is meant to make a pilot thoughtful of their actions, however the cap pilot will only think this is BS if he suddenly starts burning out his engines.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”

Radhe Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-03-21 15:58:43 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
The thing is though is if you use a skill, as Shah said, that's just one more thing you are forced to train, however if you use fittings, yes that can make even more decision but it would leave the ship that can't fit module, like the jump freighter alittle lacking in the department of reducing the cooldown timer. While rigs would be interesting, it would just mean that freighters will have to get a skill that they will be forced to trained, to compensate with their inability to equip things.

Quote:
Would there be a possibility that you might destroy your jump engines and thus leaving your stranded somewhere unless you ger some specialized repairs? (im seeing nanite paste in my mind atm )


That could be a little game breaking for some pilots as if they burned out their engines and had no one that could come and rep them, they would be forced to train an alt up for repping and hope it makes it there before they system is over run by hostiles. The timer is meant to make a pilot thoughtful of their actions, however the cap pilot will only think this is BS if he suddenly starts burning out his engines.


why not sub caps have no way but to go through gates...should be a drawback for caps as well...and don`t tell me fuel.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#19 - 2013-03-21 15:59:35 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
The thing is though is if you use a skill, as Shah said, that's just one more thing you are forced to train, however if you use fittings, yes that can make even more decision but it would leave the ship that can't fit module, like the jump freighter alittle lacking in the department of reducing the cooldown timer. While rigs would be interesting, it would just mean that freighters will have to get a skill that they will be forced to trained, to compensate with their inability to equip things.

Quote:
Would there be a possibility that you might destroy your jump engines and thus leaving your stranded somewhere unless you ger some specialized repairs? (im seeing nanite paste in my mind atm )


That could be a little game breaking for some pilots as if they burned out their engines and had no one that could come and rep them, they would be forced to train an alt up for repping and hope it makes it there before they system is over run by hostiles. The timer is meant to make a pilot thoughtful of their actions, however the cap pilot will only think this is BS if he suddenly starts burning out his engines.



well, not entirely.
you get 6 jumps (or whatever) before you're stuck for 30 min, less however much time has already elapsed. What if you were only 7 jumps from a station -- personally I'd rather risk burning out the drive (and being in station) than hiding in some system for half an hour.

Same goes for being in a JF or having to run inter-station logistics ... 6 jumps is only 3 round trips.

Perhaps add a repair shop option for the jumpdrive? 10m* ISK to pull 5 mins* off the timer?

* ISK and time up for debate.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-03-21 16:18:14 UTC
Quote:

well, not entirely.
you get 6 jumps (or whatever) before you're stuck for 30 min, less however much time has already elapsed. What if you were only 7 jumps from a station -- personally I'd rather risk burning out the drive (and being in station) than hiding in some system for half an hour.


Quote:

why not sub caps have no way but to go through gates...should be a drawback for caps as well...and don`t tell me fuel.


Well then I will offer you this then, if the idea is implemented add two things.

First a jump button, that not only tells you how much time you have on your jump drive, but also when you activate this button, will allow you to over heat your engine, and for every so many minutes PASS your engines breaking point you ah-crew engine damage, so lets say that the engine cool down is 30 minutes for example, lets say that for every 5 past that you get 10% engine damage, which for more engine damage you have, the smaller your jump range is.

The reason why I say reduce jump range for engine damage is cause otherwise people will just jump till they have 90% engine damage, quick rep, then do it all over again because they have no consequences to over heating their engines....

and a equipment that can use rep-paste to repair your engine back to working condition.

This way it will still cater to those that want to keep their engine limit to the set amount of time, and for those that enjoy the riskier elements of that.

This however is just a few ideas I throw out there for you to chew on.

Quote:
Perhaps add a repair shop option for the jumpdrive? 10m* ISK to pull 5 mins* off the timer?


I however don't agree with this cause the cost of isk is never a balance, specially with the big corps and alliance just flooding the dockable ships wallets with jump drive cooldown evade.


However this isn't just my game you can still continue to provide ideas and responses and I will continue to provide my own input on the subject!

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”

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