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Should Ganking be profitable?

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#201 - 2013-03-20 21:11:39 UTC
let's not forget the chance of nothing worthwhile dropping in the wreck

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-03-20 21:15:36 UTC
also rigs have never, ever dropped as they are intended to be destroyed with the ship they're on, same reason they cannot be removed from a ship for reuse on another

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#203 - 2013-03-20 21:16:39 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Go back to page one post one in reference to Dev Soundwave quote. He as well stated that ganking should be possible but not profitable per say. This concept could and should be carried over to encompass high value ships as well. Gankable but not profitable. Can’t say it or dumb it down any further than that for you sorry.


yes this has already been addressed

Andski wrote:
as for projecting Soundwave's opinion on the profitability of ganking exhumers for salvage to ganking pimp fit mission boats, that is goddamn stupid because there is huge difference between ganking an exhumer solely for its salvage and targeting a shiny mission Machariel because it's a loot pinata

in the former case, exhumers were profitable to gank from the get go, before any modules were fitted. in the latter, the pilot made the choice to paint a bullseye on his ship.

however, wretches desperate to tell everyone "GANKING MY 20B OFFICER FIT MACHARIEL SHOULDN'T BE PROFITABLE" quoting Soundwave out of context does not surprise me in the least bit

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#204 - 2013-03-20 21:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
I said perhaps a way to achieve the no profit would be to make it cargo only drop as a possible solution.

So some mission runner who loses a ship to NPCs shouldn't be able to go back and possibly get a few of their modules? What about PVPers who gain the field and get a chance to recoup some of their losses through loot drops? It makes no sense and it's stupid because most ganking for profit is done against haulers which have the majority of the wealth in the cargo bay.

HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Go back to page one post one in reference to Dev Soundwave quote.

You quoted it out of context, so there's no reason to refer back to it.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#205 - 2013-03-20 21:26:22 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
I never said nothing should ever drop .
So how will you ensure that it's not possible to profit from ganking a Tengu? Your entire thesis hinges on stuff not dropping.

Quote:
I referenced that rigs don’t drop as it is now and that also it is not profitable to gank the retriever. Has the game exploded from this change yet?
That's because they're permanent fixtures to the ship that can't be swapped out at your leisure. If you want the same rules to apply to modules, then fine — everyone will love it when they have to have one entire ship for every variant fitting they want to use with it.

Quote:
I didn’t just sit here and cry and stomp my feet and post like a whine baby on the forums. I stated my opinion as well as perhaps a way to achieve the change. Didn’t just bring the problem to the table but offered a possible solutions.
…except that you didn't explain what the problem was, which means you're offering a “solution” (which breaks things and which is so half-baked and incomplete that it doesn't solve anything either) to something that isn't a problem to begin with, which means that you're pretty much whining and stomping your feet for a change that serves no purpose that you can articulate.

Quote:
Go back to page one post one in reference to Dev Soundwave quote. He as well stated that ganking should be possible but not profitable per say.
What does Per say?
He stated something that he was immediately proven to have misunderstood. The problem he was talking about doesn't exist, and never has existed, and he was shown the error of his assumption rather quickly. So no, he's not saying the same thing you are.

Quote:
Gankable but not profitable.
Why should it not be possible to rob people of their valuables?
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2013-03-20 21:30:24 UTC
Tippia for CSM8. ^_^
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#207 - 2013-03-20 21:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Whitehound wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
That kind of borders a bit on you defining how I should play doesn't it?

Oh my... No, it does not just border on it. It is about defining how one should play it.

What is wrong is to believe that one is not forced already. Or tell me, can you jump from the first day on into a Titan? Can you fly into any system you want to? Can you buy everything of the market? ... No.

Fact is that the game is full of "no can dos" and players who complain about being forced are just trolling you. So do not pick this up as an argument, please. You might as well be standing in a fully crammed bus and start complaining to the next passenger not to touch you with his coat.



Sure I can. I can do all of those things. Except for the "anything off of the market", which CAN be defined by player market.

Again, using generalities for a specific is ill fated at best.

I can pilot a titan on my first day; buy a titan pilot.

I can fly into any system I want; at the cost of encouraging the wrath of a player.

I can post on the market forums for any ship hull, blueprint or marketable item.

But telling me or anyone that ganking should not be possible based of profiteering? Apparently there's a few corps doing it wrong (TEAR for instance).

If I have 5 billion isk.. why would I gank someone for their 20mil cargo hold? If I have the RL money to buy isk by the 10s, why would I worry about a wallet flash? Maybe I like emergent gameplay.

Maybe I want to see the world burn.

Isk isn't real money after all, it's an end to a means. Where's the fun in just having isk if you aren't going to spend it?

That's the point of ganking. People doing it as a method of income is, well, a non factor to be honest.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Whitehound
#208 - 2013-03-20 21:47:11 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I can pilot a titan on my first day; buy a titan pilot.

I can fly into any system I want; at the cost of encouraging the wrath of a player.

I can post on the market forums for any ship hull, blueprint or marketable item.

Not really the point I was making.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#209 - 2013-03-20 22:00:35 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
Ganking should be as profitable as the ganker can make it by using his/her own timing, strategy, skill and target selection.
No more - no less

Making ganking artificially profitable is stupid and reeks of regulation. No thanks.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#210 - 2013-03-20 22:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Ganking should be as profitable as the ganker can make it by using his/her own timing, strategy, skill and target selection.
No more - no less

Making ganking artificially profitable is stupid and reeks of regulation. No thanks.
…and, of course, the same goes for artificially making it unprofitable.

Well, that, and that it's really the gankee that determines the profitability, not the ganker — the ganker just tries to spot and take advantage of the opportunity (hopefully) presented by that determination.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#211 - 2013-03-21 01:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Karl Hobb wrote:
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
I said perhaps a way to achieve the no profit would be to make it cargo only drop as a possible solution.

So some mission runner who loses a ship to NPCs shouldn't be able to go back and possibly get a few of their modules? What about PVPers who gain the field and get a chance to recoup some of their losses through loot drops? It makes no sense and it's stupid because most ganking for profit is done against haulers which have the majority of the wealth in the cargo bay.

HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Go back to page one post one in reference to Dev Soundwave quote.

You quoted it out of context, so there's no reason to refer back to it.


So you don’t think CCP is smart enough to code to where you could get your own sheet back? That was just thrown out there as possible. Again I understand you oppose the idea and want to find micro fault with everything but I have faith CCP could work it out should they choose.

Also it isn’t out of text. It referenced the plan to make the miner still gankable but not profitable to do so. I use this as a reference that not only could it be done but it was done and the game didn’t explode
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#212 - 2013-03-21 02:08:40 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
So you don’t think CCP is smart enough to code to where you could get your own sheet back?


why should you get your stuff back if you're dumb enough to lose it?

if you can't take measures to protect it, you don't deserve it, period

like I said, if you want a game where you won't lose your ~epix~ this isn't it, keep looking

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#213 - 2013-03-21 02:14:24 UTC
i realize that you don't want to take extra precautions when flying an officer-fit rattlesnake as everyone else who plays this game does and thus believe that you should get everything back when you die, but that is not what eve is about and if you believe that that is somehow what this game was intended to be, you are terribly wrong

if you believe that this will have a strong impact on your decision to continue playing, let me just help you with that because you're asking for a change that will not happen any time soon

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#214 - 2013-03-21 02:36:23 UTC
Andski wrote:
i realize that you don't want to take extra precautions when flying an officer-fit rattlesnake as everyone else who plays this game does and thus believe that you should get everything back when you die, but that is not what eve is about and if you believe that that is somehow what this game was intended to be, you are terribly wrong

if you believe that this will have a strong impact on your decision to continue playing, let me just help you with that because you're asking for a change that will not happen any time soon



They seemed to do it for the miners so the game must have been for them. maybe they will make it so this game is for me next.

For the record I have yet to loose a high dollar ship to hi-sec pvp but I know several pilots that have.

I play in all three secs. I feel each should provide its own unique play style. hi-sec shouldnt be for bored players as a venue to gank and grief players and make a profit.

If you want to kill and or grief players in hi-sec then it should cost you.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#215 - 2013-03-21 02:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
They seemed to do it for the miners so the game must have been for them. maybe they will make it so this game is for me next.

For the record I have yet to loose a high dollar ship to hi-sec pvp but I know several pilots that have.

I play in all three secs. I feel each should provide its own unique play style. hi-sec shouldnt be for bored players as a venue to gank and grief players and make a profit.

If you want to kill and or grief players in hi-sec then it should cost you.


maybe you don't understand what "losing a ship" entails

hint, it entails losing the ship and everything in it, unless you manage to loot your wreck before someone else does

also last I heard miners don't keep whatever ore they mined when they were suicide ganked, nor do they get anything back

because, well, losses actually matter in this game unlike in whatever wretched themepark you came from

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#216 - 2013-03-21 03:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:


They seemed to do it for the miners so the game must have been for them. maybe they will make it so this game is for me next.



Just gonna highlight this so CCP can see what happens when you give one group of people something (they don't really need) for free instead of requiring them to figure it out for themselves. Every single "gimmie gimmie" person in the game then demands the same considereration.

Think about that next time.........
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#217 - 2013-03-21 04:49:25 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
So you don’t think CCP is smart enough to code to where you could get your own sheet back? That was just thrown out there as possible. Again I understand you oppose the idea and want to find micro fault with everything but I have faith CCP could work it out should they choose.

So what about if someone gets ganked and they ask their friends to scoop the loot? Oh wait, they got ganked so no one can scoop the loot because that would mean someone could profit.

I turn down idiotic ideas like this every week at my job because edge cases result in terrible code that is very hard to maintain.

HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Also it isn’t out of text.

It is. The Soundwave quote was specifically referring to exhumers and barges (indirectly, IIRC). You misrepresented it as a blanket statement against any profitable ganking.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#218 - 2013-03-21 06:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:

If you want to kill and or grief players in hi-sec then it should cost you.


It does cost the ganker, it costs them their ships (and pods/implants if they're careless), it costs them their security status (if they aren't already -10), it involves opportunity cost (they could be doing something much more conducive to lining their pockets in the time it takes to organise and execute a gank).

It's a numbers game, one in which the loot fairy/RNG regularly turns round and says "screw you a-hole", loot and salvage only covers the cost some of the time, the rest of the time the gankers are operating at a net loss, which is why they prey on the targets that a: they can kill fast, b: are carrying enough ISK value in modules or cargo that the RNG works in their favour or c: the pilot is so damn lazy that they're not actually playing the game at all but are down the pub having a drink while the game plays for them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#219 - 2013-03-21 08:04:04 UTC
This is why ganging is out of line atm

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216694&find=unread

Now I do agree that people should be able to gang ships in high sex. The problem what I have with it is that it's too easy and I have no legimet claim to my own property that has stolen from me.

I see it in the way that customs officers and concord should engage (for a period of time) the persons robbing my stuff from my wrecks.

Now yes yes it's not right, we can't get anything ever after that. How about if you then add the bloackade runners into to the mix so you could have a chance to get the loot if you where the pirate. This would be something that would make ganging abit harder for pirates and mayby abit more interesting cause someone would be chacing you actualy. risk vs. reward Cool

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Tesal
#220 - 2013-03-21 09:14:46 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
This is why ganging is out of line atm

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216694&find=unread

Now I do agree that people should be able to gang ships in high sex. The problem what I have with it is that it's too easy and I have no legimet claim to my own property that has stolen from me.

I see it in the way that customs officers and concord should engage (for a period of time) the persons robbing my stuff from my wrecks.

Now yes yes it's not right, we can't get anything ever after that. How about if you then add the bloackade runners into to the mix so you could have a chance to get the loot if you where the pirate. This would be something that would make ganging abit harder for pirates and mayby abit more interesting cause someone would be chacing you actualy. risk vs. reward Cool


I read your post. Please tell me what language its in so I can use Google translate.