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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Occupation(al) Hazards

Author
Anslo
Scope Works
#21 - 2013-03-20 16:44:16 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:


Knowing precisely where you enemy will be ahead of time has an advantage all its own, my dear.

I'm confident in the State's ability to use that information to tactical advantage and a Glorious Victory.

The Caldari Navy excels at one thing above all, and that is directed projection of power, precisely concentrated to a single spear tip. In this case a single system.

That my dear is precisely the sort of combat scenario they shine at.


The thing the Caldari navy is good at is how to stage a planetary evac and hide colonies; not so much the spear tip.

Silas Vitalia wrote:


The Federation and Democracies in general don't have the stomach to wallow in the mud like us for extended periods of time. Public sentiment will eventually crack and the whole thing will not be politically worth it. The Federation is already losing face and turning on their own ideals after just a few short years of a Proxy War.

Once their public sees images of their brave 'rebels' committing retaliatory terrorist actions and more and more dead Caldari children blown apart they'll lose public support.



Says the bleeder? You would be amazed at how the Gallente can get riled up after a few years of a titan aimed at them. Not all of us vote Dove and terrorism is usually only defined by the one being attacked. Then when you come on here talking about killing 1000 people for the actions of one, and imploring the Caldari to do the same; your words make the terrorism seems more and more like saving themselves. Something Gallente and even some Caldari respect, not rolling over and dying.


I like you. Let's drink together.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-03-20 16:49:05 UTC
Getting you Federals riled up is the point, half-wit.

It's one of the earliest and most classic tenants of warfare. Know your enemies buttons, push them.

Know where they are going to be, and be there first.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-03-20 16:51:20 UTC
Look to your fellow capsuleers. How many attacks on Sovereignty, starbases, and assets are actually designed for the sole purpose of drawing out your enemy, and forcing them to fight on you terms, at a time and location of you choosing?

Or for your smaller engagements, the force already on field dictates range and disposition to the force entering the system. A distinct advantage.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-03-20 16:52:26 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Getting you Federals riled up is the point, half-wit.

It's one of the earliest and most classic tenants of warfare. Know your enemies buttons, push them.

Know where they are going to be, and be there first.




Get your enemies' riled up so that they actually want to fight? That isn't classic warfare that is being a dunce.

Two, the only time the Caldari will know where the Federal Navy is currently located is when a cyno pops close Caldari prime. The only buttons being pushed causing another war. I swear, you need to get out of null; its plaguing your mind like people who get lost in the woods for too long.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-03-20 16:55:52 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Look to your fellow capsuleers. How many attacks on Sovereignty, starbases, and assets are actually designed for the sole purpose of drawing out your enemy, and forcing them to fight on you terms, at a time and location of you choosing?

Or for your smaller engagements, the force already on field dictates range and disposition to the force entering the system. A distinct advantage.



You really think those little ego growing tactics are going to happen in this war? Hell, the navy will just destroy those stations proper if they don't start waving the correct flag for harboring an enemy. This is going to get messy, to the point militias will just look like a child's playtime.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-03-20 17:03:15 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

You really think those little ego growing tactics are going to happen in this war? Hell, the navy will just destroy those stations proper if they don't start waving the correct flag for harboring an enemy. This is going to get messy, to the point militias will just look like a child's playtime.



All wars are over ego, young one.

Caldari Prime itself not holding any value worth such fighting aside from sentimentality and ego yet...... here we are.

My point proven.


And yes those tactics are already in play, each and every day across a hundred worlds and a thousand expended shell casings, across shattered hulls and broken dreams. You should learn to read the signs.



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-03-20 17:09:01 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

You really think those little ego growing tactics are going to happen in this war? Hell, the navy will just destroy those stations proper if they don't start waving the correct flag for harboring an enemy. This is going to get messy, to the point militias will just look like a child's playtime.



All wars are over ego, young one.

Caldari Prime itself not holding any value worth such fighting aside from sentimentality and ego yet...... here we are.

My point proven.


And yes those tactics are already in play, each and every day across a hundred worlds and a thousand expended shell casings, across shattered hulls and broken dreams. You should learn to read the signs.





Egos of politicians not single people in an egg dragging their crews to fight against another person in an egg. You are trying to derail with semantics. You knew darn well what I meant.

Caldari Prime holds no worth to you but the Gallente living on there might have gotten sick of Caldari rule, which makes it not of egos but wanting a different life. Which is a refreshing change, at least they are fighting over something worthwhile.

Those tatics might be in play but it isn't a total war yet. Those husks are floating outside of stations and worlds aren't cracked in two from multiple titans sending their doomsday weapons on population centers, yet. Those 'worlds' are not touched by war but skirmishes, a high-sec war will be completely different.



Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-03-20 18:12:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kallo Unarmored
Anslo wrote:


I like you. Let's drink together.


With that little argument seemingly done, sounds like fun.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-03-20 18:17:38 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Anslo wrote:


I like you. Let's drink together.


With that little argument seemingly done, sounds like fun.


Whose arguing?

Your comments go a long way towards clarifying and validating my points while simultaneously dimming your prospects for a career in public oratory.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-03-20 18:20:52 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Whose arguing?

Your comments go a long way towards clarifying and validating my points while simultaneously dimming your prospects for a career in public oratory.


If you say so, and why you don't see me in a suit; I have no reason to go for public office.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#31 - 2013-03-20 18:21:38 UTC
The Lady of Blades has her own motives for this post, which I appreciate.

This said, I fear she may be right.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-03-20 18:24:12 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
The Lady of Blades has her own motives for this post, which I appreciate.

This said, I fear she may be right.


She might be right that it can happen, she isn't right thinking killing people in a 1:1000 ratio will stop anything.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#33 - 2013-03-20 18:55:16 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
The Lady of Blades has her own motives for this post, which I appreciate.

This said, I fear she may be right.


"Lady of Blades" - love it.

Love it!

Schere, sweetie, I believe the crimson countessa's motivations revolve primarily around making the biggest splash for her fabulously sultry new styling. Nothing like Gallente soufflé for grand entrances!

My own assessment of the Caldari Prime situation is gloomier than its weather. But it may prove a Teachable Moment for Future Generations.

Orthogonally, I wonder if I might pick your brain about recombinant strategies for purely organic lycanthropy sometime.

I have some lovely wineries and pastureland on Aphi IV... IV? Yes, I believe IV, should you find that the soufflé is a bit too exciting at the present time.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-20 19:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Silas Vitalia wrote:


The millions of Gallente you will displace aren't going to just give things up, stubborn little things; they need be relocated, intimidated into submission, or you know. *draws finger across neck slowly*



You cannot relocate or intimidate a true loyal Gallentean. With cloning, killing us is pretty hard too.

Quote:

So how about this. They knock down one of you shiny towers, you level a city.

They kill one Caldari, you kill one thousand Gallente.


What you are talking about is genocide on a massive scale. How can you even justify such an act? Also, we still don't know who the hell blew up that damn building. Due to your oppressive government, I can safely say that it's just as likely that your own people or even your own government destroyed the Provist headquarters.

And do you think the Federation would just sit idly by as you do this? History has shown that us Gallente tend to have vendettas against those who have wronged us. You start leveling Gallente cities, we start obliterating Caldari planets.

We will never fire the first shot, but you can be damn sure that when we retaliate it's going to hurt for a long time. Look at what happened when Kador tried to invade Federal Space. We completely overkilled his fleet.

The Federation is like a nesting Eagle. Don't touch our nest or harm us and we will leave you alone. If you mess with the Eagle though, your going to get it's talons.

Also, what would CONCORD think of such a despicable act? The consequences for the State would be disastrous. They would never attempt such a thing (maybe with Tibus Heth in power they might) and most Caldari would never hope for it (unlike you), however if the government decides to be foolish then things will go real bad.

Quote:

Anyway, just some friendly advice. They already think you heartless monsters, why bother trying to win a PR war? Better to have you victory en total using tried-and-true methods and then write whatever you like for the history books. Your progeny will thank you for making the hard choices.



Only the worst Gallenteans think that the Caldari are monsters and vice versa. There is good and bad on each side. I don't think the Caldari are monsters. Their government? Oh certainly, but not the Caldari people. NEVER the Caldari people. In the few years I lived away from my home and in the Caldari State, I've experienced more kindness and generosity from random Caldari strangers than outside my circle of friends and relatives in the Federation.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-03-20 19:14:18 UTC
Freddy my boy, you are just too funny.

It would seem you haven't been following along. Do some more research on who the players are, who has been speaking, and maybe re-read our discussion.

Then get a good night's sleep, eat a proper breakfast, and try again.



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-03-20 19:16:49 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

She might be right that it can happen, she isn't right thinking killing people in a 1:1000 ratio will stop anything.


I think perhaps due to you quasi immortal status you no longer appreciate the chilling and cowering effect certain actions and their expected reprisals can have on mortal, civilian populations. And on voters. And on taxpayers.




Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-03-20 19:19:51 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:


If you say so, and why you don't see me in a suit; I have no reason to go for public office.


If that's some sort of threat you'll have to be more specific.

Also older, more capable, and able to harm me or my interests.

You're still a [chess] pawn. When you've been promoted to a more significant piece on the board perhaps we'll meet.





Sabik now, Sabik forever

Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-03-20 19:22:26 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
The Lady of Blades has her own motives for this post, which I appreciate.

This said, I fear she may be right.


She might be right that it can happen, she isn't right thinking killing people in a 1:1000 ratio will stop anything.


It's rare that a bleeder and I will agree on anything but madam Vitalia has a point as much as it pains me to say it. A deterrent is only a deterrent whilst it remains a credible threat. I doubt the Federation government has the ability to withstand the backlash from their constituents should the Titan over Caldari prime ever have to use its weapons in anger. That being said I do not think the Caldari will withstand the Federation's reprisal strike. The Federation's populace does not have the willpower to sustain a long and bloody war of attrition, particularly following several years of war already. The Caldari do not have the manpower to withstand such a war. This leads to two likely scenarios, the first that the Caldari and Gallente will come to terms. The more likely scenario, given the leaders involved and their respective personalities, is that the Caldari and Gallente will opt for a lightning war of mutual annihilation. Planets will be glassed from orbit, cities razed and the State and the Federation will call off the fight when one of them capitulates or they both have no more habitable worlds to fight over, whichever comes first. Both governments will cease to exist as we currently know them. What this will mean for the Amarr/Minmatar war I do not know. Fortunately thus far our leaders seem to be more rational about these things and are seemingly content to limit themselves to the CEWPA limited war currently on offer.

CONCORD, likely overwhelmed, would not be able to stop such a doomsday scenario from occurring, even if they do react, which, given how they are currently willing to sit on their hands, I doubt.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-03-20 19:29:23 UTC
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
The Lady of Blades has her own motives for this post, which I appreciate.

This said, I fear she may be right.


She might be right that it can happen, she isn't right thinking killing people in a 1:1000 ratio will stop anything.


It's rare that a bleeder and I will agree on anything but madam Vitalia has a point as much as it pains me to say it. A deterrent is only a deterrent whilst it remains a credible threat. I doubt the Federation government has the ability to withstand the backlash from their constituents should the Titan over Caldari prime ever have to use its weapons in anger. That being said I do not think the Caldari will withstand the Federation's reprisal strike. The Federation's populace does not have the willpower to sustain a long and bloody war of attrition, particularly following several years of war already. The Caldari do not have the manpower to withstand such a war. This leads to two likely scenarios, the first that the Caldari and Gallente will come to terms. The more likely scenario, given the leaders involved and their respective personalities, is that the Caldari and Gallente will opt for a lightning war of mutual annihilation. Planets will be glassed from orbit, cities razed and the State and the Federation will call off the fight when one of them capitulates or they both have no more habitable worlds to fight over, whichever comes first. Both governments will cease to exist as we currently know them. What this will mean for the Amarr/Minmatar war I do not know. Fortunately thus far our leaders seem to be more rational about these things and are seemingly content to limit themselves to the CEWPA limited war currently on offer.

CONCORD, likely overwhelmed, would not be able to stop such a doomsday scenario from occurring, even if they do react, which, given how they are currently willing to sit on their hands, I doubt.


Well said. Although 'planet glassing' tends to not be worth it in most scenarios, at least for re-occupation reasons.

I also am of the opinion this would be a 'fast' war so to speak should things escalate. I'd put the center of action on Caldari Prime of course, with the distinct possibility of some end-runs by either fleet towards the core worlds.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-03-20 19:40:02 UTC
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
The Lady of Blades has her own motives for this post, which I appreciate.

This said, I fear she may be right.


She might be right that it can happen, she isn't right thinking killing people in a 1:1000 ratio will stop anything.


It's rare that a bleeder and I will agree on anything but madam Vitalia has a point as much as it pains me to say it. A deterrent is only a deterrent whilst it remains a credible threat. I doubt the Federation government has the ability to withstand the backlash from their constituents should the Titan over Caldari prime ever have to use its weapons in anger. That being said I do not think the Caldari will withstand the Federation's reprisal strike. The Federation's populace does not have the willpower to sustain a long and bloody war of attrition, particularly following several years of war already. The Caldari do not have the manpower to withstand such a war. This leads to two likely scenarios, the first that the Caldari and Gallente will come to terms. The more likely scenario, given the leaders involved and their respective personalities, is that the Caldari and Gallente will opt for a lightning war of mutual annihilation. Planets will be glassed from orbit, cities razed and the State and the Federation will call off the fight when one of them capitulates or they both have no more habitable worlds to fight over, whichever comes first. Both governments will cease to exist as we currently know them. What this will mean for the Amarr/Minmatar war I do not know. Fortunately thus far our leaders seem to be more rational about these things and are seemingly content to limit themselves to the CEWPA limited war currently on offer.

CONCORD, likely overwhelmed, would not be able to stop such a doomsday scenario from occurring, even if they do react, which, given how they are currently willing to sit on their hands, I doubt.



Well first this was about killing people in the streets which is the same as following the wasp back to the nest and smacking it with a big stick. If you want to see Federation citizens riled up, show them people getting executed on the streets.

As for your second point about this being a quick war, I think you are right. I hope it comes to just one battle and then this will be out of both side's systems but who knows in the long run.

With the last bit of "Your leaders" being more rational lets not forget they let an entire faction rebel and got smacked by the Jove. They aren't rational just still licking wounds and conditioned not to fight least they lose much more.