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100 Million ISK to Kill a Freighter in Highsec
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Whitehound
#21 - 2013-03-19 10:31:36 UTC
Sable Moran wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Feel free to help me optimize further or provide me your most delicious tears.


Have you considered using meta 1/2 blasters and mag stabs? They would add to the damage thus lowering the number of pilots needed. The added cost should be minimal.

Ask him if he has tried using rookie ships, because these cost nothing.

He could start a thread, saying, 0 Million ISK to Kill A Freighter in Highsec.

And do not say it is impossible. I have done the numbers. Rookie ships really cost nothing. So I know...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#22 - 2013-03-19 10:41:11 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Sable Moran wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Feel free to help me optimize further or provide me your most delicious tears.


Have you considered using meta 1/2 blasters and mag stabs? They would add to the damage thus lowering the number of pilots needed. The added cost should be minimal.

Ask him if he has tried using rookie ships, because these cost nothing.

He could start a thread, saying, 0 Million ISK to Kill A Freighter in Highsec.

And do not say it is impossible. I have done the numbers. Rookie ships really cost nothing. So I know...

EVE is broken! You can alpha a multi-billion titan with a fleet of ships that cost NOTHING.

The blob has won, we can finally shut down the servers.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Goldnut Sachs
#23 - 2013-03-19 10:54:50 UTC
Great to see another scholar of the gank.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#24 - 2013-03-19 12:50:28 UTC
Brinxter wrote:
Out of sheer curiousity, how do you deal with looting that freighter wreck nowadays?
Because you probably need another freighter to scoop the wreck, who'll go suspect upon doing so.
And that seems like a bad idea :)


Since when has anything in EVE been a good idea? Cool
Cable Udan
Balls Deep Inc.
#25 - 2013-03-19 13:03:51 UTC
I approve of this product and/or service.
Bexar Ying
Unit 479
#26 - 2013-03-20 03:25:45 UTC
Good luck and stay dead.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-03-20 03:54:52 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Hello all,

I am a suicide ganker. Since the last hulkageddon, I have been perfecting the art.



No, you have not. If you had, you would be using cheaper than t1, meta modules, that give a higher damage bonus. This would reduce the overall total of catalysts that you needed present, and increase your chance of success should it be close, or anything goes wrong.

It's pretty clear to me that you have never really explored your options, and simply decided, "Hurr durr cheaper is better, why would I want 600 dps, when I could do 360 for cheaper, when I'm going to make all the isk back easily anyway?"

Your setups are bad, and you should feel bad. You quote the price at 100m to gank a freighter? My ass. 100m worth of ships? Maybe. But you completely and utterly fail to account for
A) value of time spent grinding security status back up for pilots who need to do so
B) value of removing killrights off of pilots who need to shed them
C) risk/reward of losing the freighter scooping the loot from your kill,
and most importantly
D) Compensation for everyone's effort.

Considering you do not simply "Instantly find a freighter worth killing, and immediately scramble 75+ pilots into catalysts within 10 minutes, you have to have most, if not all of the pilots on hand and ready, perhaps for an hour even. Now, what does each pilot want to earn, for being present? Sure, they might do one or two kills, for ***** and giggles, but beyond that, they are going to want compensation for their efforts, which comes down to payout.

The average freighter gank lately seems to have about 4.5bil in cargo. Statistically, 2.25bil will drop on average. That would entail, keeping no Lions Share for organizers and suppliers and such, only 22.5mil per pilot, for all costs involved. Good luck with that. People do this to make a lot of isk, as they should.

7 pilots, in tech 2 fit talos, will spend about 120mil per ship, and for a 4.5bil gank, (2.25bil drop), each pilot would recieve 321 Million isk. That's 201million isk each, AFTER the cost of fully replacing their ship, and you didn't have to herd 75+ cats to achieve the kill.


Good luck, with your hairbrained and completely unreasonable idea, that is OCCASIONALLY pulled off, but never with any consistent reliability. Also, learn to meta. Your t1 fit is a joke, would have HIGHER dps, and LOWER cost, with meta guns and damage mods.

You're welcome.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-03-20 04:01:34 UTC
Brinxter wrote:
Out of sheer curiousity, how do you deal with looting that freighter wreck nowadays?
Because you probably need another freighter to scoop the wreck, who'll go suspect upon doing so.
And that seems like a bad idea :)


You warp in your freighter just past the loot, he aligns to a station, and scoops the loot once he is fully aligned, then immediately hits warp. Aside from him getting bumped the moment he scoops the loot, or scooping before he is up to speed, the risks are minimal.

The only real challenge here, is getting 50 pilots together in properly fit ships and getting them to shoot the same freighter.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-03-20 04:09:25 UTC
The problem with having such an obscene number requirement to deal with is that the clock starts ticking when the first shot is fired. You'd have to have everyone undock and align to the gate and fleet warp the ships, ensuring that everyone engages around the same time. If your gank fleet does not exceed the number required for the gank to succeed, everyone has to pull it off perfectly and you better hope that some stray Falcon pilot doesn't decide to jam a few GCCed Cats for kicks.

So while it looks absolutely hilarious for a freighter to die to a bunch of Catalysts in Uedama, Talos gangs are simply the most reliable option.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#30 - 2013-03-20 04:26:02 UTC
I am looking for the comparison to what 50 PvP pilots could make in FW.

Oh wait, something might fire back. NVM.

Have fun whacking your pinatas.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-03-20 04:51:00 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
I am looking for the comparison to what 50 PvP pilots could make in FW.

Oh wait, something might fire back. NVM.

Have fun whacking your pinatas.



The chance of something firing back, in FW, is actually quite remote, when you have 50 ships present. It's non FW targets that you have to worry more about xD
Pannax Ni
Pinch n' Plex
#32 - 2013-03-20 09:43:25 UTC
Have you considered the gate guns at all?
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#33 - 2013-03-20 09:45:48 UTC
Pannax Ni wrote:
Have you considered the gate guns at all?


the answer is clearly no.

Now with 100% less Troll.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-03-20 10:25:49 UTC
Brinxter wrote:
Out of sheer curiousity, how do you deal with looting that freighter wreck nowadays?
Because you probably need another freighter to scoop the wreck, who'll go suspect upon doing so.
And that seems like a bad idea :)


The only thing remotely safe I could think of was to use a JF with a cyno alt at the ready so You can bail out as soon as You have that wreck in Your grubby little paws.

Ofc You'd need someone to make sure Your destination isn't camped by even more piraty pirates by the time You arrive.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#35 - 2013-03-20 11:56:56 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Hello all,

I am a suicide ganker. Since the last hulkageddon, I have been perfecting the art.

My setup of choice today looks like this:

[Catalyst, Catalyst - T1 Suicide Ganker]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script or Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I (requires perfect fittings, CPU issue)
Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script

Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
[empty rig slot]

I prefer this setup due to the cost being roughly 2 mil. When a T2-fit catalyst easily costs 5 times more for not even twice the DPS, this ship becomes a clear winner when you can bring more people.

I have been using this setup for some time now, practicing on mining barges and exhumers:
- Untanked Covetors can die to a single T1 catalyst in a 0.6, might even get the pod if skills are maxed (avg loot 5-15 mil).
- Retrievers with low-to-moderate tank can easily be killed with two T1 catalysts (avg loot 5-10 mil).
- Untanked Hulks can just barely be killed with two T1 catalysts in a 0.6 (avg loot 10-40 mil).
- Link to our killboard, feel free to check the last two months for confirmation of these numbers.

I did some number crunching concerning freighters and jump freighters:

EHPs Against Caldari Navy Antimatter with level 5 skills (no implants):

Providence - 192124
Charon - 181288
Obelisk - 202988
Fenrir - 172790

Ark - 345824
Rhea - 329735
Anshar - 371146
Nomad - 311021

T1 catalyst overheated volley: 830 (418 dps)

(1.0 - 0.9) 3 volleys = 2490
(0.8 - 0.7) 5 volleys = 4150
(0.6 - 0.5) 8 volleys = 6640

Amount of Catalysts needed (3 / 5 / 8 volleys):

Providence - 77 / 46 / 29
Charon - 73 / 43 / 27
Obelisk - 82 / 49 / 31
Fenrir - 69 / 42 / 26

Ark - 139 / 83 / 52
Rhea - 132 / 79 / 50
Anshar - 149 / 89 / 56
Nomad - 125 / 75 / 47

What have we learned:

1) Aim Minmatar, avoid Gallente
2) Taking variables into account, 50 catalysts (~100 mil) to gank a freighter in 0.5
2) Taking variables into account, 75 catalysts (~150 mil) to gank a jump freighter in 0.5

I am already manufacturing 500+ such catalysts per month. EVE mail me in-game if interested and await further instructions. Feel free to help me optimize further or provide me your most delicious tears.


And you'll be splitting the loot with 74 other people, right?

Assuming that you get to make 1 gank every 20 minutes, and assuming a 50% drop rate, you'll need those freighters to be carrying 12.5 bill in cargo each for you and your 74 chums to make the 25M an hour a 3 month old character can get doing level 4s.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#36 - 2013-03-20 11:57:41 UTC
And that assumes you're 100% successful with loot scooping, of course.

Better call it 15 billion ISK of cargo per freighter.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-03-20 12:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Ganking miners does not make you a professional.

Evidence:

Sentry turrets will blast a catalyst to bits after two seconds even in a 0.5sec.

Assuming you took the sentries into account,
your choice of ship is crap, because it cannot reliably tank sentries.

Initial high alpha damage is more important than dps.

Proof: At 0 seconds in a thrasher you will already have done the damage a catalyst
would need several seconds more to achieve,
while being in an ArtyThrasher also makes the op less errorprone.

Ignoring all your previous, your fitting is not
optimized for damage/isk ratio below t2.

You are assuming flawless pilots.

You are assuming all cats will stay alive long enough.

Conclusion: You are a noob, go back to ganking miners.

edit: posting on an Archos 4.3" tablet is ... challenging.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#38 - 2013-03-20 14:36:56 UTC
All this does is further the shield and gun thing cycle. Somebody gives a guide on how to get a freighter in a 0,5; they'll have less in 0.5 and need to move to 0.6. The OP woulda been better keeping his mouth shut. Honest, the suicide ganking is boring. It isn't pvp- pvp inplies there's a two way competition happening. It's way more fun fighting somebody who'll fight back. There are things about eve players that i just won't ever understand. Why gank a frieghtor when ranceer would give a fight? Logistics in eve are god awful as is, this is just pure dickery for the sake of being a ****.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2013-03-20 15:56:13 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
All this does is further the shield and gun thing cycle. Somebody gives a guide on how to get a freighter in a 0,5; they'll have less in 0.5 and need to move to 0.6. The OP woulda been better keeping his mouth shut. Honest, the suicide ganking is boring. It isn't pvp- pvp inplies there's a two way competition happening. It's way more fun fighting somebody who'll fight back. There are things about eve players that i just won't ever understand. Why gank a frieghtor when ranceer would give a fight? Logistics in eve are god awful as is, this is just pure dickery for the sake of being a ****.


It's not done for "fights", it's done to make money. It's piracy, not tournament jousting. Pirates don't seek out navy frigates for "good fights", they seek fat, weak targets for easy profits.

As long as people insist on using untanked Iteron IIIs to move multiple billions of ISK worth of goodies or AFK freighters full of Technetium, then there will be piracy in hi-sec.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#40 - 2013-03-20 17:17:08 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
All this does is further the shield and gun thing cycle. Somebody gives a guide on how to get a freighter in a 0,5; they'll have less in 0.5 and need to move to 0.6. The OP woulda been better keeping his mouth shut. Honest, the suicide ganking is boring. It isn't pvp- pvp inplies there's a two way competition happening. It's way more fun fighting somebody who'll fight back. There are things about eve players that i just won't ever understand. Why gank a frieghtor when ranceer would give a fight? Logistics in eve are god awful as is, this is just pure dickery for the sake of being a ****.


It's not done for "fights", it's done to make money. It's piracy, not tournament jousting. Pirates don't seek out navy frigates for "good fights", they seek fat, weak targets for easy profits.

As long as people insist on using untanked Iteron IIIs to move multiple billions of ISK worth of goodies or AFK freighters full of Technetium, then there will be piracy in hi-sec.


that's not true because freighters aren't guaranteed to drop billions of isk