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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#1001 - 2013-03-19 10:34:37 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

Titan is one size above Dread, but does not have it as a prerequisite.
Supercarrier is even worse - it shares the same skill with Carrier, which is one size below.
It's like if Battleship and Battlecruiser had Cruiser as prerequisite; and Destroyer shared the skill with Frigate. If the purpose was to make skill tree easy to comprehend, then it was failed - because it still bogs my mind capitally.


Skilltree branches into titan/dread/carrier at this point, it's no longer the linear subcap skilltree.
By being on the leaf level they are no longer restricted by the trunk's rules.

They're free to define it that way, even if personally i'd linearize it too.


I.e. I would prefer if the skilltree were to continue into ..->(racial) capital -> (racial) supercapital with carrier/dread and MS/titan just being T1 variants just like domi/megathron are variants of gallente BS.

The problem is, it would still be inconsistent as long as the capital ships require secondary skills, as secondary skill requirements is firmly in the domain of T2 ships. (Unless i'm overlooking a ship or two)
Pajomcek
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1002 - 2013-03-19 11:34:11 UTC
What about marauders? Does CCP touch this skill too?
Olga die Vernichterin
Outback Steakhouse of Pancakes
Deepwater Hooligans
#1003 - 2013-03-19 12:58:08 UTC
Probably not, because it's T2
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1004 - 2013-03-19 13:57:48 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
They're free to define it that way, even if personally i'd linearize it too.
I.e. I would prefer if the skilltree were to continue into ..->(racial) capital -> (racial) supercapital with carrier/dread and MS/titan just being T1 variants just like domi/megathron are variants of gallente BS.

Looks like we've come to agreement, didnt we?

Would be nice to hear from CCP Ytterbium and Co, if their "professional pride" and "professional taste" (or whatever they got) is satisfied? But I accidentally 1000's get, all of it - while devs didnt appear for a while and most probably forgot about this thread. Such a pity.
Ereilian
Doomheim
#1005 - 2013-03-20 12:55:29 UTC
Something that has struck me is ... with the new Jump Op/Cal requirements for capital ships is not now a good time to rationalize the Nav skills section.

The idea is that rather than the ops/cal skills you have a single skill, lets say Jump Drive Specialist, that is a combination of the two boni and set at such a training level that is would be comparable to current timings.
Torrema Sinclair
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1006 - 2013-03-20 15:29:29 UTC
What of those like me, who has BC lvl 5 (or almost though), but dont wanna have say Caldari BC lvl 5. Shouldnt we have a chance to choose what ships we wanna skill for and get an reimbursment for those we dont?
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1007 - 2013-03-20 17:24:22 UTC
Torrema Sinclair wrote:
What of those like me, who has BC lvl 5 (or almost though), but dont wanna have say Caldari BC lvl 5. Shouldnt we have a chance to choose what ships we wanna skill for and get an reimbursment for those we dont?

No.
If you dont want that skill - petition to remove it.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#1008 - 2013-03-20 18:00:36 UTC
Torrema Sinclair wrote:
What of those like me, who has BC lvl 5 (or almost though), but dont wanna have say Caldari BC lvl 5. Shouldnt we have a chance to choose what ships we wanna skill for and get an reimbursment for those we dont?


Wow, you're the first to come up with a reimbursement for SP you're getting for free. Awesome idea.

In that vein, could I please get a reimbursement for the titan skills i never trained?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1009 - 2013-03-20 19:50:13 UTC
Torrema Sinclair wrote:
What of those like me, who has BC lvl 5 (or almost though), but dont wanna have say Caldari BC lvl 5.
Don't train Caldari cruiser 3. If you did then you already chose to have the capability to fly Caldari BC's and thus will receive the skill.
Torrema Sinclair wrote:
Shouldnt we have a chance to choose what ships we wanna skill for and get an reimbursment for those we dont?
No. You will be given skills based upon choices you already made, this just preserves them.
Tiber Ibis
The Paratwa Ka
#1010 - 2013-03-22 21:03:40 UTC
Just reading over the dev blog again and I am a little confused regarding one inconsistency I've noticed.

For the Revelation the new skill requirements to simply train the Amarr Dreadnought skill do not include the Jump Drive Operation skills, which are listed as tertiary skills.

For the Archon the new skill requirement to simply train Amarr Carrier include all the Jump Drive Operation skills, ie they are no longer tertiary skills.

Before I understood that tertiary skills were not needed to train up the skill, although are needed to actually fly the ship. So is it the case under the new skill requirement that the Jump Drive skills will be now needed to simply train the Amarr Carrier, although for some reason not needed for training Amarr Dreadnought?

Seems to be an inconsistency and so I'm sure this must be a mistake.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#1011 - 2013-03-24 22:25:40 UTC
Btw: June 4th? Good date :)
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1012 - 2013-03-25 15:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
I read through Page 3 and still not sure I follow the mechanics for the skill change. Keep hearing reimburse and fly before and after. So if I have destroyers 5 and BC 5, will I have free skill points to allocate after the patch? .. like the mechanic with the learning skills removal? Will those two skills disappear and racial destroyers and bc be added to my head automatically if I have the corresponding frig 3 and cruiser 3 respectively. Will I have to allocate those skill points to the skills of my choice only if I do not have frig 3 and cruiser 3? If I have the corresponding frig and cruiser skills, are the racial destroyer and bc skills filled with sp autaomatically or will I still have the choice put some of the sp elsewhere if desired? I train the racial cruisers to 5, not to use their weapon systems and their bc, but to fly their logistics or other non-racial-weapons bonusing ship, so that racial bc is sometimes pointless and would be better allocated to another skill.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1013 - 2013-03-25 16:08:40 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Btw: June 4th? Good date :)


/me mutters about ungrateful colonial types who can't even make a decent cup of tea.

Hot water without salt! Not cold salty water! And certainly not a bay's worth!

Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Unit562
Blood Tide
#1014 - 2013-03-25 17:07:32 UTC
My biggest concern at this point:
With the removal of off-grid boosting, what will be done to make the rorqual worth while, as setting up inside the belt with the mining fleet is a great way to loose your rorqual, and has no positives to it what so ever. As the Rorqual is usually setup at a POS, is there a possibility of a POS module that can make boosts from a rorqual inside the POS and "linked" to the module system wide? Idea
Unit562
Blood Tide
#1015 - 2013-03-25 17:10:13 UTC
Torrema Sinclair wrote:
What of those like me, who has BC lvl 5 (or almost though), but dont wanna have say Caldari BC lvl 5. Shouldnt we have a chance to choose what ships we wanna skill for and get an reimbursment for those we dont?


Then when the skill change comes, put on your best diaper, take your thumb out of your mouth, and suck it up.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1016 - 2013-03-26 14:37:04 UTC
Unit562 wrote:

Then when the skill change comes, put on your best diaper, take your thumb out of your mouth, and suck it up.


If you have nothing to contribute, just keep your mouth shut. If you feel like insulting other players, then go play WOW or go somewhere else.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#1017 - 2013-03-26 16:09:55 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Unit562 wrote:

Then when the skill change comes, put on your best diaper, take your thumb out of your mouth, and suck it up.


If you have nothing to contribute, just keep your mouth shut. If you feel like insulting other players, then go play WOW or go somewhere else.


You may wish to apply your standards to your own posts.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1018 - 2013-03-26 16:34:11 UTC
Unit562 wrote:
My biggest concern at this point:
With the removal of off-grid boosting, what will be done to make the rorqual worth while, as setting up inside the belt with the mining fleet is a great way to loose your rorqual, and has no positives to it what so ever. As the Rorqual is usually setup at a POS, is there a possibility of a POS module that can make boosts from a rorqual inside the POS and "linked" to the module system wide? Idea


Unit562 wrote:
Then when the skill change comes, put on your best diaper, take your thumb out of your mouth, and suck it up.


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Moron.

Mr Epeen Cool
Clolo
Perkone
Caldari State
#1019 - 2013-03-26 18:33:12 UTC
I don't know if this has been addressed already but here I go. My question is in reference to Carriers and Freighters. Will there be any "free SP" for these two ships? For Carriers you are now required to have Capital Ships 4 vs 3 previously. Will we be given the bump from 3 to 4 if we don't have it trained? Along the same lines, Freighters require Advanced Spaceship Command 1 now but will require 5, will we be given that skill as well? I seem to remember CCP making a big deal of "if you can fly it now, you will fly it after the patch". I just want to make sure these two ship classes aren't overlooked in that.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1020 - 2013-03-26 20:03:31 UTC
Clolo wrote:
I don't know if this has been addressed already but here I go. My question is in reference to Carriers and Freighters. Will there be any "free SP" for these two ships? For Carriers you are now required to have Capital Ships 4 vs 3 previously. Will we be given the bump from 3 to 4 if we don't have it trained? Along the same lines, Freighters require Advanced Spaceship Command 1 now but will require 5, will we be given that skill as well? I seem to remember CCP making a big deal of "if you can fly it now, you will fly it after the patch". I just want to make sure these two ship classes aren't overlooked in that.

You have already injected the skill. You do not need the pre-reqs. Those who have not already injected the skills will need those pre-reqs. That's what they are trying to say.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein