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L4's and BC's
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Lhadi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-03-20 00:25:51 UTC
Just got to L4 and I'm wondering if they are doable with BC's? I see mostly people doing it in BS's, so I'm not sure if I could/should do it in BC or buy me a shiny new BS?
Wolf Vyvorant
Quod Lupus Rex
#2 - 2013-03-20 00:54:02 UTC
you can do level 4s in a battle cruiser with the right fit. however it will be slow and you will need a very good tank. honestly A battleship is a much better level 4 mission runner, if you have the skills for it, if not your gambling a lot of isk.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-03-20 02:51:13 UTC
The Drake and Hurricane were known for being able to complete L4s with problems. You need a good tank to be able to do them, and DPS as well. HACs can also do them, and even some assault frigates can do it. You can also use the Gila, since it can field a full flight of Heavies or Sentries, plus whatever smaller drones you may need. It has solid damage projection, a good tank, and speed to boot.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-03-20 03:40:45 UTC
You could try a simple one like Duo of Death.

My advice. Get the bs weapons, train them, train support skills for them. Then get bs.

You can do them in a drake. You can do them even better in t2 bc, but t2 bc cost more than t1 bs.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Lhadi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-03-20 09:58:59 UTC
Thank you for the advice, people.

One more question, is DPS or tank a problem for l4's with BC's?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-03-20 10:50:05 UTC
Lhadi Xadi wrote:
Thank you for the advice, people.

One more question, is DPS or tank a problem for l4's with BC's?

both.

if your tank does not hold up, your ship explodes. if your dps are too low, you have to tank more damage for a longer time and your ship might still explode. it also takes an eternity to complete the mission and your ISK/hr is worse than doing lvl3s.

I should buy an Ishtar.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#7 - 2013-03-20 11:08:12 UTC
An old rule of thumb is that your DPS + eHP/s tank should be minimum around 1000 for lvl4 missions.
But that's just very roughly and does not take speedtanking and such into account.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#8 - 2013-03-20 12:46:27 UTC
Lhadi Xadi wrote:
Thank you for the advice, people.

One more question, is DPS or tank a problem for l4's with BC's?


Depends on the ship.

With the Drake DPS is the problem, you can easily get BS lvl tank by gimping your DPS.

With most other BCs tank is more of a problem - you can often squeeze enough DPS out of them, though not at the ranges most BS project them, but at the cost of tanking ability. The closer range magnifies that effect.
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#9 - 2013-03-20 14:22:03 UTC
Lhadi Xadi wrote:
Just got to L4 and I'm wondering if they are doable with BC's? I see mostly people doing it in BS's, so I'm not sure if I could/should do it in BC or buy me a shiny new BS?


Just get into a BS hull. The Domi is very forgiving if you field T2 light drones and afford faction warden/garde's until you have T2 sentries. You can get by with medium rails on the Domi if you don't have the skills for large guns yet, and it's still faster and safer than using a battlecruiser in any level 4.
legion
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-03-20 17:20:06 UTC
Just stick to 3's till you can get into a battleship. Doing 4's in a BC is a pain, you end up making isk faster in 3's till you can feild a BS.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#11 - 2013-03-22 15:12:17 UTC
As a matter of fact, I have been doing L4's for quite a time (double rep Myrm) and while almost every mission is doable (AE bonus being one of obvious exceptions), it used to take horribly long to finish and risk of loosing ship was quite high. And to add insult to injury, even if BC is rather cheap to replace, due to missions being ground so slowly, the cash flow is not that big so the ship's loss tended to make a dent in the wallet.

In summary, they can be used but HAC's and BS'es are the way.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#12 - 2013-03-22 18:12:48 UTC
Running level 4 missions with a BC is much like running level 3 missions with a T1 cruiser. It can be done, but not with an entry level BC. You need really good fitting and support skills, as well as a decent amount of skill. However completion times will suffer due to lower DPS.

A drake can tank most level 4 missions but take a long time to complete with its lower DPS. To effectively run level 4 missions you want to do about 500 DPS at 50km range. But at the same time you need enough tank to survive. This can be done with BC's, especially with sniper fits. A really good BC or average BS can complete level 4 missions, but are rather slow for completion times.

Generally if you take to long to complete level 4 missions, or can only run them with a BC, you will make more isk running level 3 missions do to the fast completion times. Once you get into a good battleship fit with really good support skills you can make upwards of 60 mil per hour. Some dedicated players with really shiny ships can make even more.

If you can not really afford to buy a battleship to run level 4 missions then you certainly can not afford to fit it properly, or if you do not really have the skills to fly one well you are not ready. You will lose your battleship very quickly if you jump into level 4 missions before you are ready. If you have a really good BC with really good support skills you may have limited success running level 4's. But you are better off polishing your support skills before jumping into a battleship. You will need to complete 6-8 level 4 missions just to pay for an average battleship with fittings. If you die more often then that you will be losing isk.
Leetha Layne
#13 - 2013-03-22 21:36:23 UTC
I know this won't happen, but I would wait until all your fittings are T2 before a BS.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#14 - 2013-03-22 22:45:22 UTC
Or you could train for a strategic cuiser.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-03-23 13:26:52 UTC
I've read that the rule of thumb for missions is that you want your tank plus gank to be about 1,000 - I.E. if you can throw 400 DPS, you want to be able to absorb 600 DPS, while if you can throw 700 DPS, then tanking 300 DPS is okay, roughly speaking. And the more that balance weighs towards gank, the quicker you can finish off the mission.

Combat battlecruisers generally have a hard cap on the amount of damage they can deal - there's only so much a Drake can do with six HML's, and to work with HAM's, it's got to sacrifice tank for mobility. Attack battlecruisers can do massive damage, some exceeding 1,000 DPS in gank alone, but they can't tank a complex full of rats without some serious white-knuckle flying.

If the Gila's brought up, though, that's in a different category entirely. Pirate cruisers and heavy assault ships are much more powerful than T1's, which is why they're so expensive. The Gila and Ishtar can bring battleship-caliber DPS to bear with their drone bays, and a Gila can tank like a Drake (albeit with a smaller native buffer).

But generally, battleships are the go-to L4 mission runners, because they allow you to bring reasonable firepower to bear while having enough tank to be forgiving of imperfect flying.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
SunTsu Rae
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-03-23 14:46:57 UTC
Well, I haven't done it recently, due to RL time management issues.

But I used to solo L4's in a Drake, T2 fit , no problems.

Just watch for the missions with scrams, missiles sometimes can't kill them fast enough, even with the T2 'precision' rounds.

SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) http://www.vfw.org
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#17 - 2013-03-23 23:58:26 UTC
Don't bother with a BC, it will take ages and you'll be better off doing L3s while you train your skills. Wait till you can fully t2 fit your BS and get your BS skill and weapon support to IV, ideally when you start doing L4s you should be training for t2 large weapons, at entry level meta 4 weapons are good enough (although some ships like the Apoc really need T2 weapons).

Tell your preferred race/skillset and I can recommend you some starting L4 fits
Athena Themis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-03-25 14:27:17 UTC
Join some friends who have L4 capable ships Big smile
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
#19 - 2013-03-25 22:13:19 UTC
Athena Themis wrote:
Join some friends who have L4 capable ships Big smile

This. BCs are fine for missioning in groups, just not solo. Group Iskies per hour may be a little low, but it is generally more fun to have friends to chat with while you mission.
sixth sense
#20 - 2013-03-26 17:39:10 UTC
it's hard, bur you can do it in bc sized ships. easiest is the drake
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