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All The Ships

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GreenSeed
#41 - 2013-03-19 22:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
devs have been hinting at NPCs flying actual ships, with fittings, for a while now. and in a very clear way when the NPC AI update was done recently, i remember the dev blog saying something in the lines of " this ai fix is temporary, our real goal is to get them on real ships"

combat variant ships belong in the hands of NPCs or collectors, there's no need to add more kinds of ships, we already have far too many.

now, if CCP were to add a new category of ships called "civilian" and either host a contest or use designs from old contests they could add a bunch of useless ships, that wont really change pvp balance at all, but would add a nice mineral dump and players would drool over stuff like this

http://browse.deviantart.com/contests/2010/eveonline/

i cant find the 2011 one, that one had a lot of civilian ship entries, one of them was a luxury liner made of pure awesome.

i want to get ganked flying that.

or this http://noc-d.deviantart.com/art/HORUS-182598414

or this http://baranha.deviantart.com/art/Naru-Kami-Final-179403464

or ffs please kill me on this

http://fuzzymodem.deviantart.com/art/EVE-Online-Amarr-Command-Ship-182138078

yeahhhhh

http://rawwad.deviantart.com/art/EVE-online-Belial-182405987




do i hear hyperion remodel?

http://kungkungk.deviantart.com/art/MIRAGE-HMBC-182481780



srsly theres a lot of people with great ideas.
Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
#42 - 2013-03-19 22:46:54 UTC
Quote:
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.


Hahahaha, the number of times I have thought that, and not just due to the EVE forums Lol
Whitehound
#43 - 2013-03-19 23:13:32 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

I'd like to see you trying to leave it. I am sure it will be colourful.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
sloany
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-03-20 00:08:00 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Other than for vanity would this be a pointless amount of new stuff, which really is just old stuff. All those textures then need memory on the graphics card and so it would increase the hardware requirements of the client for no good reason.

Ship textures would only be loaded into memory when needed (when a ship is on grid).
You don't honestly think the client loads each of the 4 titan textures into memory, on the off chance you'll run into one?
Whitehound
#45 - 2013-03-20 00:38:27 UTC
sloany wrote:
Ship textures would only be loaded into memory when needed (when a ship is on grid).
You don't honestly think the client loads each of the 4 titan textures into memory, on the off chance you'll run into one?

No, but the game still needs to account for the event where it needs to load many of its textures. In fights with over 1000 players on grid is this anything but unlikely. You then cannot print a requirement of XXX MB onto the package, which is true for 95% of the time, and then when it shoots over the limit, cut off your customers from the game with a black screen. The whole point of my argument is to conserve memory wherever one can and not to waste it on every imaginable feature no matter how colourful.

Those here who are all upset about my comments just do not have an understanding for this. They think they have the latest card, which will run anything and if not buy a bigger one, and not for a second think about how a game maker needs manage a game's resources.

Frankly, if some could not play EVE anymore on their hardware, because others want 8 different textures on all their ships, then this would be terrible. And then people will start arguing about the textures, which are good ones and which are bad ones. You would get the whole vanity train rolling.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#46 - 2013-03-20 01:10:04 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
sloany wrote:
Ship textures would only be loaded into memory when needed (when a ship is on grid).
You don't honestly think the client loads each of the 4 titan textures into memory, on the off chance you'll run into one?

No, but the game still needs to account for the event where it needs to load many of its textures. In fights with over 1000 players on grid is this anything but unlikely. You then cannot print a requirement of XXX MB onto the package, which is true for 95% of the time, and then when it shoots over the limit, cut off your customers from the game with a black screen. The whole point of my argument is to conserve memory wherever one can and not to waste it on every imaginable feature no matter how colourful.

Those here who are all upset about my comments just do not have an understanding for this. They think they have the latest card, which will run anything and if not buy a bigger one, and not for a second think about how a game maker needs manage a game's resources.

Frankly, if some could not play EVE anymore on their hardware, because others want 8 different textures on all their ships, then this would be terrible. And then people will start arguing about the textures, which are good ones and which are bad ones. You would get the whole vanity train rolling.



You shot your own argument of saving resources down when you proclaimed your desire to want entirely different models of ships rather than just a reskinned version. Even if memory were an issue, which its not, something many people have tried explaining to you, you would have the exact same issue with a new ship that you would have with a reskinned ship. You simply let slip your desire to want a new breed of ship which is something I don't have an issue with.

And if you want to switch your argument over to being in 1000 man fights then graphics is the least of a worry for a person running on a 486 mhz dell. Graphics isn't going to bog down the system, it will either be their ISP or low RAM bottlenecking their ability to fight. Once an area is loaded it stays there, hence why in games if you go to a location you may witness an area loading but if you leave and come back you won't experience the issue a second time.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Theron Vetrus
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-03-20 01:13:44 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Stuff


Seriously. Stop while you're still behind.

Take what you can, give nothing back. Psychotic Monk for CSM8
Humera Hekard
Hekard Industries Inc.
#48 - 2013-03-20 02:44:22 UTC
The sweetest looking ship model has to be the Gistii Thug - If it only came in cruiser size. Big smile

Wouldn't mind having one of those as a faction ship.
Ayase Wyvernzora
#49 - 2013-03-20 03:13:25 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
All those textures then need memory on the graphics card and so it would increase the hardware requirements of the client for no good reason.


Wut?

These ships are all the same only with different skins. This means these textures need to be loaded into the graphics card. It may seem little, but depending on how CCP has this implemented can this sum up to a nice, little amount of extra memory on the graphics card. I am not saying it will burn your graphics card or that you need the latest high-end hardware for it, but why increase the requirements for your game for a bit more variety in colour? It needs a better reason than just having the same ship models with a gazillion different skins or it leads to an overall shallow appearance of the game.


Adding some new colors isn't going to do jack unless you are running an Amiga 500.

It is not just a new colour. It is several colours and they come in form of textures and require video memory.


Don't know about your expertise in computer science, but personally I'm a professional programmer, and I did game development. Everyone knows that every single modern game engine loads only resources it is using, so your point is only valid if you have ALL these different ships on the same grid. Even in that case textures should take only about 100MB tops. What 100MB for any modern GPU? Even my laptop got 3GB.
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-03-20 03:21:15 UTC
I would imagine they have some of those specially reserved for T3 ships that aren't off-grid cloaky boosty insta locky mission boats.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-03-20 03:23:22 UTC
Whitehound
#52 - 2013-03-20 07:27:22 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
You shot your own argument of saving resources down when you proclaimed your desire to want entirely different models of ships rather than just a reskinned version. ...

It is just you who shots himself in the head. You still do not get it.

The game will always advance and therefore always increase its requirements. It has not stood still and it will hopefully never do. You only decide wisely with each step what you will need to additional resources for.

It is as simple as that. I do not think you will ever get it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Whitehound
#53 - 2013-03-20 07:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Ayase Wyvernzora wrote:
Don't know about your expertise in computer science, but personally I'm a professional programmer, and I did game development. Everyone knows that every single modern game engine loads only resources it is using, so your point is only valid if you have ALL these different ships on the same grid. Even in that case textures should take only about 100MB tops. What 100MB for any modern GPU? Even my laptop got 3GB.

So you get my point. Good. Now add shaders, geometry, backgrounds and for ships, drones, stations, moons, planets, weapons and weapons fire and other effects, etc..

You, too, want to push the hardware requirement up to 1GB-3GB and say Good-Bye to lots of players and so you can have banana-yellow racing stripes on all your ships? Lol

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Apricot Baby
caldariprimeponyclub
#54 - 2013-03-20 07:37:47 UTC
Incase any of you are interested - a lot of the ships I have been referring to share the same textures. Only certain races have unique textures and most are already being used in game.

Unreleased Ships (Images) - www.imgur.com/a/uablN Unreleased Ships (Videos) - www.youtube.com/user/TanithAmberdemon Eve Celshader Project - www.imgur.com/a/5mn44
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#55 - 2013-03-20 08:12:33 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Ayase Wyvernzora wrote:
Don't know about your expertise in computer science, but personally I'm a professional programmer, and I did game development. Everyone knows that every single modern game engine loads only resources it is using, so your point is only valid if you have ALL these different ships on the same grid. Even in that case textures should take only about 100MB tops. What 100MB for any modern GPU? Even my laptop got 3GB.

So you get my point. Good. Now add shaders, geometry, backgrounds and for ships, drones, stations, moons, planets, weapons and weapons fire and other effects, etc..

You, too, want to push the hardware requirement up to 1GB-3GB and say Good-Bye to lots of players and so you can have banana-yellow racing stripes on all your ships? Lol


Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg you are so derp, every pixel must be individually rendered, buffered in VRAM then displayed, as long as the resolution remains the same it is completely inconsequential how many textures the 1000 Megathrons on the screen has because they all have to be rendered individually anyway.

You are derping at an exponential rate, stop doing that.
Whitehound
#56 - 2013-03-20 08:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Danny John-Peter wrote:
You are derping at an exponential rate, stop doing that.

I do not think you know how it works, sorry. The textures themselves need to come from somewhere. It is then one thing for a graphics card to render 100 identical ships and another to render 100 different ships. For the 100 identical ships can one simply use one model with one skin, while the other needs more memory. Even when it is the same model do the extra skins require extra memory. The ships themselves are then no different in their attributes and so you use memory for something that is literally a superficial feature.

The goal is not to have the prettiest ships on the screen at the highest hardware cost. The goal is to have the most ships on the screen at the smallest hardware cost, because it allows as many players as possible to participate in the game. Adding racing stripes and various extra skins and colours does not add to the goal, but only increases the cost. Only once it turns out that the majority of EVE players would quit out of a lack of banana-stripes would CCP then go the other way.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Mistress Motion
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-03-20 08:23:06 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Ayase Wyvernzora wrote:
Don't know about your expertise in computer science, but personally I'm a professional programmer, and I did game development. Everyone knows that every single modern game engine loads only resources it is using, so your point is only valid if you have ALL these different ships on the same grid. Even in that case textures should take only about 100MB tops. What 100MB for any modern GPU? Even my laptop got 3GB.

So you get my point. Good. Now add shaders, geometry, backgrounds and for ships, drones, stations, moons, planets, weapons and weapons fire and other effects, etc..

You, too, want to push the hardware requirement up to 1GB-3GB and say Good-Bye to lots of players and so you can have banana-yellow racing stripes on all your ships? Lol


Huh. Please stop talking about things you don't understand.

1) Texture quality can be decreased at the load time. If they wanted, they could make an option to make all textures 16x16 pixels, thus allocating pretty much nothing on VRAM. Would look like crap ofcourse, but that's what you get for having a stone-age card.
2) Eve has secondary thread dedicated to loading textures, load times are not an issue. (You can see this when you undock and sometimes some ships are not visible but few secs later. you still see everything in overview or brackets)
3) Shaders take next to nothing in VRAM, unless there are gazillion of them. But it would be pretty stupid to compile a private shader for every ship in the grid, since it's better to re-use the existing shaders anyway.
4) Weapon fire and other small effects are usually really tiny textures.
5) Ship/station/etc. models can reuse and wrap textures. If the model is large, it doesn't mean that the textures are always larger in the same ratio.
Whitehound
#58 - 2013-03-20 08:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Mistress Motion wrote:
1) Texture quality can be decreased at the load time. If they wanted, they could make an option to make all textures 16x16 pixels, thus allocating pretty much nothing on VRAM. Would look like crap ofcourse, but that's what you get for having a stone-age card. ...

This is already in the game, because it is already needed to keep the hardware requirements low. It is just one of the many things one does to reduce these and thereby enable as many players as possible to play the game. Another is not to add a ton of useless features.

I could just say to stop drinking the NVidia cool-aid, but it is probably pointless.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#59 - 2013-03-20 09:17:22 UTC
While I naturally agree all those shiny textures need to be stored somewhere, that is not on the graphics card. It's in RAM or PF, they only get loaded onto the card when rendering is done.

Apparently EVE also has a separate thread for textures, something I was unaware of.
Destru Kaneda
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#60 - 2013-03-20 09:39:27 UTC
So, nobody read Ranger's post?

Also ITT somebody is trying to disguise willful ignorance as trolling. More at six.

I like it best when the beats are naked.