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SCOPE NEWS REPORT: Provist HQ on Caldari Prime Destroyed! Existence of Death Squads confirmed!

Author
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-03-19 16:38:42 UTC
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Adel Khamez wrote:

I find this Gallente admission that this was a deliberate act of war to be refreshingly honest.



How about we not let one individual speak for the entirety, hm? Particularly one as...terse as this one.


In any community, there will be those who are intemperate. Regardless, the rank and file are cheering on the destruction.

It is a bit difficult to claim non-responsibility when your own people are cheering in the streets.

I wonder how long it will take Gallente merchants to start selling Shintoko Tower explosion t-shirts?

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-03-19 19:37:08 UTC
There is a lot that I felt the need to respond to. Bare with me my friends!

Sepherim wrote:
Unknown soldiers shoot Black Eagles. Unknown soldiers attack Caldari installations. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but it is clear that someone has access to a lot of ressources, and the will to use them.


Simon Coal wrote:
Or several someones. Emergent crowd behavior is more likely than a single string-pulling puppet. Nonetheless, this is all troubling.


I agree. While I usually scoff at those who shout "Conspiracy!" at every little thing, these events are very troubling. There is something, or someone, backstage directing this whole thing. Be it a government, corporate, or private entity. Things just don't seem right for such black and white things to be the reason behind all of this.

Mekhana wrote:
Excellent news on the bombing of their headquarters. Dear Rus Kartaka, the situation was so under control you've been crushed to death by thousands of tons of concrete, metal and glass . Tsk, Tsk... how tragic. I hope the Resistance continues its successful campaign against the opressors and wish them good luck on future operations.

Let's fight on, brothers and sisters.


This "resistance" you support is responsible for the deaths of hundreds if not thousands throughout these unfortunate events on Caldari Prime. Many of those killed are innocent Ethnic- Gallente. Butchering your own people in the name of freedom? Is that what we have come to? I am a loyal Gallentean citizen, but I will not applaud this event!

You are not my brother or my sister, someone like you isn't even worth being called a Gallentean.

Gallente society is rapidly degenerating. People are calling us murders and monsters and while people such as myself try to prove them wrong, people like you come along and throw it all away.

Once again, the Federation gets accused of something it is not responsible for and it's loud mouthed citizens only make it more difficult for us to prove our innocence.

Shun Makoto wrote:
While I have no love for the Provists, this is unfortunate. Did the terrorists who committed this act even both to think how many innocents might be in that tower before committing such a horrific act?


Most likely not. These terrorist, whoever they are, may claim that they are freedom fighters, but in my eyes they are only murderers. A true freedom fighter would care not for the destruction of their enemy, but for their people. Butchering their own Gallente comrades proves that they are less interested in freedom and more interested in personal gain.

Mabego Tetrimon wrote:



Shut up you media ****. Go on hide in some warm studio in saftey and do your news posting while the real man do the job. Like the Gals on Luminaire did!

DEATH TO THE SQUIDS!


Listen you fool, I've been fighting for the benefit of the Gallente Federation and Caldari State before you even became a capsuleer. I've fought both the internal and external threats (pirates, not other factions) of each country. I have helped both nations more than you ever will. Even now, between news reports I am running missions for the Federal Navy.

You bloodthirsty militiamen are not freedom fighters, you are just glorfied thugs looking for a fight. You care not of the Federation or the Republic, just destroying the Empire and State.

Now, could someone from security remove this man already?

--

More responses incoming.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-03-19 20:03:06 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:


In any community, there will be those who are intemperate. Regardless, the rank and file are cheering on the destruction.

It is a bit difficult to claim non-responsibility when your own people are cheering in the streets.

I wonder how long it will take Gallente merchants to start selling Shintoko Tower explosion t-shirts?


That's a 'no,' then? Ah well, it was worth a try. I don't see a lot of cheering from the masses on my end but I suppose you would understand the ebb and flow of the Gallente populace more than I.
Mabego Tetrimon
Spiritus Draconis
#44 - 2013-03-19 21:55:52 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Even now, between news reports I am running missions for the Federal Navy.

You bloodthirsty militiamen are not freedom fighters, you are just glorfied thugs looking for a fight. You care not of the Federation or the Republic, just destroying the Empire and State.


while you were flying some "mission" against some pirate scum at some redundant place of the galaxy the truly glorious Gallente Militia has taken the whole System of Ladister and Heydieles for the Federation. Another important step towards driving Caldari presence from the borders of our homelands.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-03-19 22:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Aelisha wrote:
I see the Galmil is up to it's usual shining standard.

Acts like these are a beacon to the Caldari people, uniting us in the face of oppression and the homogeny of Federal rule. Whether this will be enough? I am not qualified to say. But it is my sincere hope that as Caldari, as concerned citizens, we can put aside our intra-national factionalism for long enough to give a good account for ourselves, should this situation devolve to the point where our intervention is a foregone conclusion.

CONCORD has rightly sworn off of involvement at present, and rightly so. This will be decided by strength of arms, dedication and a firm grasp of your own ideals.

To the Federation citizens in this thread; you shouldn't have thrown your hand down this early. Trouble at home will not get in the way of Caldari working together against an external threat. We're Caldari. 'Trouble at home' is a day in the life of - intra-factional conflict is a way of life, though admittedly not usually on the scale and intensity seen recently. As I have said, we may not prevail, but you'd have paid a lesser toll in blood and tritanium-alloys than you will as a response to this heavy handed posturing.


Brutal Federation oppression? As far as I'm concerned, Caldari prime is currently under Caldari control for the most part. It's still technically part of the Federation but for all intensive purposes it belongs to the State.

Also, it's unwise to jump to conclusions at the moment. It cannot be confirmed if Federation or Pro-Gallente insurgents are even responsible for the act.

Lialus Raithe wrote:
Nothing good will come of this.

This is not an activity to be lauded with praise and rallying cries of "fight on," this was an act of terrorism. Terrorism is not limited to non-military targets Mlle. Mekhana. Terrorism is any use of violence or threats to coerce or intimidate, especially for political reasons. If you claim it was an act of insurgency, imagine the number of civilians now in danger because a group of insurgents decided to bomb a military headquarters.

These kinds of actions will make the situation even worse for those living on Caldari Prime, Caldari and Gallente alike.



Glad to see some people are still making sense around here. These attacks will only make the situation worse for both State and Federal citizens. If the terrorist's goal was to increase anti-Gallente sentiment then they have certainly accomplished their mission. Innocent Ethnic-Gallente were already getting shot at, both by terrorist forces and Provist. What more now when they are suspected for causing such a terrible loss of life and infrastructure?

Adel Khamez wrote:


So, if a 102 story building on Gallente Prime happens to topple, and terrorists responsible are discovered to be hiding in the State, you will be OK with a strictly Caldari judicial review of the matter?


If the terrorist was a Caldari citizen and the State is willing to conduct a trial then yes I personally would be okay with that. However I am but one voice in the Federation. As long as the true perpetrator is brought to justice I don't see where the trial takes place being relevant. I'd also imagine that if the Federal Government wanted to try the terrorist than negotiations with the State could commence.

Adel Khamez wrote:


I find this Gallente admission that this was a deliberate act of war to be refreshingly honest.



Please do not condemn an entire people for the words of one idiot with absolutely no influence over any of us.

Mabego Tetrimon wrote:


while you were flying some "mission" against some pirate scum at some redundant place of the galaxy the truly glorious Gallente Militia has taken the whole System of Ladister and Heydieles for the Federation. Another important step towards driving Caldari presence from the borders of our homelands.


These systems you fight for are worthless. The citizens of any one of the Empires don't notice any considerable change when you capture these discarded low security systems. Meanwhile, I help protect civilians from threats not to far from their homes. People in the Federation and the State are very grateful for my assistance. Afterall, a considerable pirate threat in the same system as you are is rather alarming!

And I would hardly call the Gallente Militia Glorious. You are not the brave soldiers and naval men of the Gallente war machine. You are more like dogs fighting for discarded scraps of rotten meat from the butcher shop.

Also, despite my citizenship with the Gallente Federation and flying a Gallente Ship I was fired upon by your militia not too long ago. Clearly you are not interested in the well being of my country, you are just interested in finding people to kill. You are not valiant heroes fighting for the Federation, you are just privateers. Nothing more than glorified pirates.

You've already made quite a fool out of yourself. I suggest you leave and never return. I will simply ignore your idiocy and I advise others to do the same. Feel free to keep running your mouth, but you won't get a response from me. I have more important matters to take care of than argue with a degenerate booster addict.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#46 - 2013-03-19 22:21:55 UTC
I'd like to see evidence supporting the claims made in regard to these supposed "innocent" casualties. While I don't doubt that this action resulted in collateral damage, it seems clear that care was taken to mitigate the death toll in the destruction of the CPD HQ. If this bomb had gone off during the middle of the business day, the casualties would likely have exceeded tens of thousands, not the eight hundred or so reported in the article.

Mekhana was right to point out that this was a military headquarters, and CPD personel are absolutely enemy combatants. The distinction between "freedom fighters" and "terrorists" has always been a blurry one, but I have found that their choice of targets is a good place to start.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#47 - 2013-03-19 22:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
It's still technically part of the Federation but for all intensive purposes it belongs to the State.


This is a curious position, if I may ask, what makes you say that? Caldari Prime was officially ceded to the State via treaty after the One Day War. How do you mean that its still 'technically' apart of the Federation? As far as [Caldari] law is concerned, all Gallente citizens dirt side are extradites.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-03-19 22:35:18 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
I'd like to see evidence supporting the claims made in regard to these supposed "innocent" casualties. While I don't doubt that this action resulted in collateral damage, it seems clear that care was taken to mitigate the death toll in the destruction of the CPD HQ. If this bomb had gone off during the middle of the business day, the casualties would likely have exceeded tens of thousands, not the eight hundred or so reported in the article.

Mekhana was right to point out that this was a military headquarters, and CPD personel are absolutely enemy combatants. The distinction between "freedom fighters" and "terrorists" has always been a blurry one, but I have found that their choice of targets is a good place to start.


Scope News reporters have been on the planet trying to get more information about virtually everything going on. However, due to the continuing escalation of violence and aggression, it is becoming harder and harder for news stories to come out. We actually have several reporting teams that are completely missing in action at the moment and it doesn't look like they will surface any time soon.

So as far as official reports, The Scope has none. According to opinion based feedback from people such as myself, I personally believe innocents have been killed if not necessarily Ethnic-Gallente. A giant building such as that, even if it is the Provist headquarters will have people who are not necessarily military personnel working there. Such as secretaries, various office workers, and even humble janitors and window washers.

Though you are correct, it does seem to make sense that there was an attempt to minimize collateral damage. That or we just got "lucky" (as lucky as you could be in this tragedy that is). However, this only solidifies my point that something like this wasn't spontaneous or not well thought out. This has been underway for a very long time. The explosives may have even been sitting there for days, waiting for the exact proper moment to go off.

However I cannot reiterate enough that this insurgency is far from a freedom movement. Even if civilians causalities were minimized at the destruction of the tower, hundreds if not thousands of Gallente citizens are being killed in the fighting, both by Provist and Insurgents alike.

Simon Louvaki wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
It's still technically part of the Federation but for all intensive purposes it belongs to the State.


This is a curious position, if I may ask, what makes you say that? Caldari Prime was officially ceded to the State via treaty after the One Day War. How do you mean that its still 'technically' apart of the Federation? As far as [Caldari] law is concerned, all Gallente citizens dirt side are extradites.


My apologies. Whenever I get riled up by the ignorance of people, especially from my own beloved Federation, I tend to mix up the facts. This is why The Scope has me mostly delivering opinions rather than actual news.

You are correct, the State controls Caldari Prime in every respect, however there is still considerable Federation influence both on the planet and outside of it.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#49 - 2013-03-19 22:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Terrorism is not limited to non-military targets Mlle. Mekhana. Terrorism is any use of violence or threats to coerce or intimidate, especially for political reasons.


Intriguing definition of terrorism you have there. By that standard, you've just accused the Caldari State of being a terrorist nation.

Why? Well there's this Titan that they deployed during the One Day War to coerce the Gallente government into a quick ceasefire with threats of unleashing it's weaponry on the surface of Gallente Prime. A threat which remains in place to this day

By your definition, that would be a use of threats to coerce for political reasons
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#50 - 2013-03-19 22:48:57 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

My apologies. Whenever I get riled up by the ignorance of people, especially from my own beloved Federation, I tend to mix up the facts. This is why The Scope has me mostly delivering opinions rather than actual news.

You are correct, the State controls Caldari Prime in every respect, however there is still considerable Federation influence both on the planet and outside of it.


No need for an apology. I've seen similar sentiments among various capsuleers and was wondering about the train of thought.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#51 - 2013-03-19 22:52:17 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


These systems you fight for are worthless. The citizens of any one of the Empires don't notice any considerable change when you capture these discarded low security systems. Meanwhile, I help protect civilians from threats not to far from their homes. People in the Federation and the State are very grateful for my assistance. Afterall, a considerable pirate threat in the same system as you are is rather alarming!

And I would hardly call the Gallente Militia Glorious. You are not the brave soldiers and naval men of the Gallente war machine. You are more like dogs fighting for discarded scraps of rotten meat from the butcher shop.

Also, despite my citizenship with the Gallente Federation and flying a Gallente Ship I was fired upon by your militia not too long ago. Clearly you are not interested in the well being of my country, you are just interested in finding people to kill. You are not valiant heroes fighting for the Federation, you are just privateers. Nothing more than glorified pirates.

You've already made quite a fool out of yourself. I suggest you leave and never return. I will simply ignore your idiocy and I advise others to do the same. Feel free to keep running your mouth, but you won't get a response from me. I have more important matters to take care of than argue with a degenerate booster addict.


Could you be any more vain and self congratulatory? Honestly, at this point I'm not surprised to hear you complain about FDU pilots shooting at you.

Condemn Spiritus Draconis pilots for their acts of piracy if you like, but combat in low security space is hardly as clear cut as you seem to think. I can't count the number of times I've been attacked by supposedly "neutral" pilots while engaged in tactical operations in the Warzone. The only rational operating procedure is to shoot first and ask questions later. I've managed to keep myself in CONCORD's good graces through occasional law enforcement action, but any time spent repairing negative security status is time spent away from the the Front. It is easy to sympathize with pilots who decide not to bother.

You may choose to demonize their actions, but I see things differently. Unless I mistake your position, you seem to be content to let Federation citizens rot under the bootheels of the State Protectorate, or you believe that systems under their control see no noticeable oppression. Having lived there, I beg to differ. Pilots like Mekhana and Mabego Tetrimon have chosen to defend those citizens even if it means exile from the comfort you enjoy in High Security space. Despise their methods if you like, but their necessity should be clear to all Gallente patriots.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-03-19 23:10:08 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:

Could you be any more vain and self congratulatory? Honestly, at this point I'm not surprised to hear you complain about FDU pilots shooting at you.

Condemn Spiritus Draconis pilots for their acts of piracy if you like, but combat in low security space is hardly as clear cut as you seem to think. I can't count the number of times I've been attacked by supposedly "neutral" pilots while engaged in tactical operations in the Warzone. The only rational operating procedure is to shoot first and ask questions later. I've managed to keep myself in CONCORD's good graces through occasional law enforcement action, but any time spent repairing negative security status is time spent away from the the Front. It is easy to sympathize with pilots who decide not to bother.

You may choose to demonize their actions, but I see things differently. Unless I mistake your position, you seem to be content to let Federation citizens rot under the bootheels of the State Protectorate, or you believe that systems under their control see no noticeable oppression. Having lived there, I beg to differ. Pilots like Mekhana and Mabego Tetrimon have chosen to defend those citizens even if it means exile from the comfort you enjoy in High Security space. Despise their methods if you like, but their necessity should be clear to all Gallente patriots.


I'm sure my complaint wouldn't surprise you. Afterall, the FDU shoots and kills both "enemies" and Federal citizens on a regular basis.

I've admittedly never spent much time in low-security space. Primarily just to pass through between Null and High, but I've seen and done enough there to have a pretty firm grasp of how it works. Neutral pilots may have opened fire on you, however your shoot first policy is simply unacceptable if your true nature is to protect the Federation and it's citizens. However, we both know it is not. Even the Provist forces on Caldari Prime are attempting to only fire when a threat is confirmed. However the FDU , comprised mostly of pirates who aren't successful working freelance, simply shoots everyone under the justification that "war is war".

In case you haven't notice, I have been frequently and rather aggressively been condemning the policies and actions of the Caldari State, both in regard to their own nation and the Federation. However, that doesn't mean I have to be as willfully ignorant as you are. My beliefs regarding the State have always been "I hate it's government but love it's people." Maybe it's because I am half Deteis or that I've actually lived several years of my life in the State or that I think level headed about these things, or both.

And once again, how can you claim to be defending Gallente citizens when you just admitted to your thug like policy of shooting anyone that flies by regardless of nationality and affiliation? Also, while I do enjoy the comforts of High-sec, I prefer life on the Null frontier where I found that my skills as a capsuleer can make the greatest impact. I am currently inbetween corporations however even when I am flying in null, I keep a jump clone in High security space for running errands or the occasional pirate hunt. I will certainly find more use of it now that The Scope is using me for opinion based columns.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-03-19 23:14:19 UTC
I feel that this topic is straying away from it's original intent. We can argue about the Shintoko tower and terrorist vs freedom fighter all day. It's embedded in history now. I also find it pretty alarming that few people have commented on the confirmed reports of the death squads However, there is still an issue that needs to be addressed.

Who is responsible for all of this unrest and atrocities across the State and Federation and is it all connected?

As capsuleers, we must try to analyze these events not independently, but in relation to each other. Things are getting worse and worse fellow capsuleers. Proper discussion of these unfortunate events is necessary in order to stop, or at least be prepared for the storm that has already begun to brew.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-03-19 23:20:46 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:

Intriguing definition of terrorism you have there. By that standard, you've just accused the Caldari State of being a terrorist nation.

Why? Well there's this Titan that they deployed during the One Day War to coerce the Gallente government into a quick ceasefire with threats of unleashing it's weaponry on the surface of Gallente Prime. A threat which remains in place to this day

By your definition, that would be a use of threats to coerce for political reasons


I would not define the nation as a whole a "terrorist nation" but I would define the above scenario as a terrorism scenario, yes. I am sure the Caldari will not favor such an adjective but that is what it is. I've seen enough Caldari already state their disfavor for the situation over Caldari Prime. The end goal was desirable but the methods were not favored by all and still aren't. I understand their desire to hold on to it now though, despite the methods by which it was obtained, it is something they desire to hold.

Curious, wouldn't you define using the lives of civilians as hostage a form of terrorism?

Even so, you do not respond to terrorism with more terrorism. You certainly don't praise it.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#55 - 2013-03-19 23:31:37 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


I'm sure my complaint wouldn't surprise you. Afterall, the FDU shoots and kills both "enemies" and Federal citizens on a regular basis.

I've admittedly never spent much time in low-security space. Primarily just to pass through between Null and High, but I've seen and done enough there to have a pretty firm grasp of how it works. Neutral pilots may have opened fire on you, however your shoot first policy is simply unacceptable if your true nature is to protect the Federation and it's citizens. However, we both know it is not. Even the Provist forces on Caldari Prime are attempting to only fire when a threat is confirmed. However the FDU , comprised mostly of pirates who aren't successful working freelance, simply shoots everyone under the justification that "war is war".

In case you haven't notice, I have been frequently and rather aggressively been condemning the policies and actions of the Caldari State, both in regard to their own nation and the Federation. However, that doesn't mean I have to be as willfully ignorant as you are. My beliefs regarding the State have always been "I hate it's government but love it's people." Maybe it's because I am half Deteis or that I've actually lived several years of my life in the State or that I think level headed about these things, or both.

And once again, how can you claim to be defending Gallente citizens when you just admitted to your thug like policy of shooting anyone that flies by regardless of nationality and affiliation? Also, while I do enjoy the comforts of High-sec, I prefer life on the Null frontier where I found that my skills as a capsuleer can make the greatest impact. I am currently inbetween corporations however even when I am flying in null, I keep a jump clone in High security space for running errands or the occasional pirate hunt. I will certainly find more use of it now that The Scope is using me for opinion based columns.


And here I thought journalists were supposed to know better than to run their mouths without the least bit of evidence to support what they say. I also expected a bit more in the way of critical thinking, but again I find myself disappointed. I'm not talking about "shooting anyone that passes by" although I readily acknowledge that some pilots do. I'm talking about having "neutral" capsuleers jump into Outposts being actively contested. These actions are overtly hostile, but not flagged by CONCORD as criminal action. Not shooting first simply grants the opposing pilot the ability to engage at their optimal positioning. This is just one example of the myriad of underhanded tactics I've witnessed by "law abiding" mission runner types who come to Low Sec looking for fights from Militia pilots who don't have the time they do to slaughter hapless pirates for Navy Agents.

Clearly you don't understand this combat situation, as I said, or you would have at least acknowledged my viewpoint instead of ranting at me. As for the rest of your overblown ad hominem attacks, I'm just as willing to "ignore such idiocy and advise others to do the same." You can either continue this discussion in a more polite tone, or this will be the end of it.

Good day, Sir.
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#56 - 2013-03-19 23:57:40 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
As capsuleers, we must try to analyze these events not independently, but in relation to each other. Things are getting worse and worse fellow capsuleers. Proper discussion of these unfortunate events is necessary in order to stop, or at least be prepared for the storm that has already begun to brew.


Prudent advice. A decade late, but prudent. Some of us have felt the wind grow cold for quite some time now.

Here's another tip. Stay away from any place with its own natural gravity well. You'll know why when it happens.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-03-20 00:17:06 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:

I'm not talking about "shooting anyone that passes by" although I readily acknowledge that some pilots do.


Ah I'm sorry, only some FDU pilots are bloodthirsty ruffians.

Quote:
I'm talking about having "neutral" capsuleers jump into Outposts being actively contested. These actions are overtly hostile, but not flagged by CONCORD as criminal action. Not shooting first simply grants the opposing pilot the ability to engage at their optimal positioning. This is just one example of the myriad of underhanded tactics I've witnessed by "law abiding" mission runner types who come to Low Sec looking for fights from Militia pilots who don't have the time they do to slaughter hapless pirates for Navy Agents.


You seem to be missing my point. I'm fully aware that "neutral" pilots commit hostile acts against your units while jumping into contested areas. However, that isn't my point. Many members of the FDU as you yourself have acknowledged fire on innocents without hesitation. I've seen it and personally experienced it enough to confirm that the majority of FDU pilots operate in this manner. If not, I am getting VERY unlucky while traveling in low.

Quote:
Clearly you don't understand this combat situation, as I said, or you would have at least acknowledged my viewpoint instead of ranting at me. As for the rest of your overblown ad hominem attacks, I'm just as willing to "ignore such idiocy and advise others to do the same." You can either continue this discussion in a more polite tone, or this will be the end of it.

Good day, Sir.


I have acknowledged your view point at one moment actually. You should read a little closer. Also, you are telling me to cease ad hominem attacks? One of your corporation members bursts in here shouting things that are completely over the top and will only serve to derail the conversation, then he calls me something offensive (praise the censor!) and bashes my lifestyle and current occupation. If you expect me to be polite and kind to someone like that then you are gravely mistaken.

I'm all for taking the high road, yet his statements only serve to solidify the negative reputation given to us Gallenteans and lash out at me. I will not sit idle while this happens, especially on my program. I tell things like it is as well, I don't like sugar coating. If I think you are saying something completely incorrect and idiotic I will tell you. If you don't like it that's fine. There are plenty of other programs on The Scope that have less aggressive host and I consider myself to be fairly passive compared to many of the others.

And feel free to ignore what I say, I honestly don't care. I was just on holoprojectors across the Federation. If you don't want to hear my opinion then that's fine. There are plenty of people in the Federation and the IGS that will.

Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:


Prudent advice. A decade late, but prudent. Some of us have felt the wind grow cold for quite some time now.

Here's another tip. Stay away from any place with its own natural gravity well. You'll know why when it happens.


Thank you. I hope to at least alleviate the issue and mass media is always a good way to get my message across. But it is very disheartening that there are people in this galaxy that seem to want to tear it apart when it's already nothing but scraps.

And I will heed your advice. Not sure why, but I have a nagging feeling that I should.


Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#58 - 2013-03-20 00:23:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre
Lialus Raithe wrote:

Curious, wouldn't you define using the lives of civilians as hostage a form of terrorism?

Even so, you do not respond to terrorism with more terrorism. You certainly don't praise it.


I would indeed. It was why I used the example of the Titan. The lives of civilians have been held hostage for the last 5 years in that system just by the presence of that warship in orbit.

We do not have enough information as to the situation on the ground to determine the make up of the occupying force so cannot just say that the Building, or those surrounding it was definitely full of Civilians as is being claimed by some of the Caldari in this Thread. However, from a tactical point of view, it would make absolutely no sense for civilians to be present there. This was a Military Command and Control Centre thus would be restricted to Authorised CPD Personnel only. In addition, only an idiot would put a Military Headquarters right next to an Uncontrolled Civilian Building, so it can be reasonably inferred that the buildings nearby would likewise be under CPD Security Restrictions. It can therefore be inferred that most of the casualties will have been Military Personnel, specifically members of the CPD.

The Timing of the Attack (9:30pm) is irrelevant. I cannot think of any Military Facility that only works during standard office hours.

I do not praise the Bombing. I recognise that for the remaining Federation Forces on the Ground, it would be seen as a strike against an Enemy Occupying Force. I also recognise that the situation is on a Knife edge at the moment and that this is likely to push the planet closer to a state of total war.

And that nightmare scenario would leave no side as the victor, be it Caldari Military, Gallente Military or Civilians of any allegiance.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#59 - 2013-03-20 00:25:04 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


Blather.



I SAID GOOD SAY, SIR!
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-03-20 00:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Rinai Vero wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


Blather.



I SAID GOOD SAY, SIR!


Indeed! It is a good day! Now if you want to ignore me, you are certainly doing a horrible job at it!

The door is on your left, thank you for your time on "The Fred Fred Frederation" and feel free to download the complimentary digital soundbox and pick up the free t-shirt on your way out.

Have a fantastic day!

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!