These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Luminaire situation still unstable, revered Caldari Admiral called back into service

Author
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#61 - 2013-03-19 16:56:22 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I really doubt the Caldari would glass Luminaire in response to rebels on their homeworld.


Rebels pop up from Faction A and attack Faction B, Faction B responds by attempting to glass Faction A's home planet. Now where have I heard that story from before....



Ah hell, here we go again.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#62 - 2013-03-19 16:57:20 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I really doubt the Caldari would glass Luminaire in response to rebels on their homeworld.


Rebels pop up from Faction A and attack Faction B, Faction B responds by attempting to glass Faction A's home planet. Now where have I heard that story from before....


Oh shut up and go calculate the pi or something.


Simply pointing out that Gallente and Caldari relations have been sour from nearly the beginning. And precedence has already been set by the Federation that the Caldari's home world is a fair target. And Admiral Tovil-Toba set precedence that Lumiere is a fair target. The signs of our future drawn in blood is older then either of us, Anslo.
Anslo
Scope Works
#63 - 2013-03-19 16:59:14 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I really doubt the Caldari would glass Luminaire in response to rebels on their homeworld.


Rebels pop up from Faction A and attack Faction B, Faction B responds by attempting to glass Faction A's home planet. Now where have I heard that story from before....


Oh shut up and go calculate the pi or something.


Simply pointing out that Gallente and Caldari relations have been sour from nearly the beginning. And precedence has already been set by the Federation that the Caldari's home world is a fair target. And Admiral Tovil-Toba set precedence that Lumiere is a fair target. The signs of our future drawn in blood is older then either of us, Anslo.


And that doesn't mean that people shouldn't learn from the past. So you think because someone crashed a carrier into Luminaire a long ass time ago, during a COMPLETELY different situation, that the Caldari should slam a Leviathan into the planet for old times sake?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#64 - 2013-03-19 16:59:58 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I really doubt the Caldari would glass Luminaire in response to rebels on their homeworld.


Rebels pop up from Faction A and attack Faction B, Faction B responds by attempting to glass Faction A's home planet. Now where have I heard that story from before....


Oh shut up and go calculate the pi or something.


Simply pointing out that Gallente and Caldari relations have been sour from nearly the beginning. And precedence has already been set by the Federation that the Caldari's home world is a fair target. And Admiral Tovil-Toba set precedence that Lumiere is a fair target. The signs of our future drawn in blood is older then either of us, Anslo.


Well you did choose to join Nation's fan club, you didn't really take the most peaceful route. I wouldn't call the kettle black.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#65 - 2013-03-19 17:06:38 UTC
Anslo wrote:
And that doesn't mean that people shouldn't learn from the past. So you think because someone crashed a carrier into Luminaire a long ass time ago, during a COMPLETELY different situation, that the Caldari should slam a Leviathan into the planet for old times sake?


Do me a favor and point to anywhere where I said that should happen? Now calm down and think for a minute. Ever since these hostilities have started I've been constantly saying that we need to protect the innocents and others in harm's way. Obviously the best way to do this is to stop all of the conflict but I don't know how to do that, do you? I mean short of dismantling the ability to wage war for both the Federation and State at once, but we're not Jovian here.

You simply stated that you didn't think the Caldari would attack Lumiere because of rebels on Caldari Prime. And my point was that they would do it in a heartbeat if they figured it'd help them hold on to Caldari Prime. Not only because of a sense of 'Must hold on to Home at all costs' but also a sort of severely twisted homage to Admiral Tovil-Toba. You know that there are people that crazy who would do that, Anslo.

But nowhere did I say that is what should happen.

Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Well you did choose to join Nation's fan club, you didn't really take the most peaceful route. I wouldn't call the kettle black.


You're right. Obviously I should've joined the Caldari Militia. Such peaceful people.
Anslo
Scope Works
#66 - 2013-03-19 17:09:00 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
And that doesn't mean that people shouldn't learn from the past. So you think because someone crashed a carrier into Luminaire a long ass time ago, during a COMPLETELY different situation, that the Caldari should slam a Leviathan into the planet for old times sake?


Do me a favor and point to anywhere where I said that should happen? Now calm down and think for a minute. Ever since these hostilities have started I've been constantly saying that we need to protect the innocents and others in harm's way. Obviously the best way to do this is to stop all of the conflict but I don't know how to do that, do you? I mean short of dismantling the ability to wage war for both the Federation and State at once, but we're not Jovian here.

You simply stated that you didn't think the Caldari would attack Lumiere because of rebels on Caldari Prime. And my point was that they would do it in a heartbeat if they figured it'd help them hold on to Caldari Prime. Not only because of a sense of 'Must hold on to Home at all costs' but also a sort of severely twisted homage to Admiral Tovil-Toba. You know that there are people that crazy who would do that, Anslo.

But nowhere did I say that is what should happen.

Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Well you did choose to join Nation's fan club, you didn't really take the most peaceful route. I wouldn't call the kettle black.


You're right. Obviously I should've joined the Caldari Militia. Such peaceful people.


OK fair enough..Sorry.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-03-19 17:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kallo Unarmored
Evi Polevhia wrote:


Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Well you did choose to join Nation's fan club, you didn't really take the most peaceful route. I wouldn't call the kettle black.


You're right. Obviously I should've joined the Caldari Militia. Such peaceful people.


I would have suggested SOE, plenty of other peaceful people to be around. You don't have to jump to the milita at every poke and prod when someone questions your violent acts while you're griping about other's.

Again, the pot calling the kettle black.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#68 - 2013-03-19 17:19:07 UTC
One of the joys I have is taking breakfast with my fellow kirjuun here at Lai Dai Research. Most of the workers here take at least one meal a day together in the cafeteria - breakfast is traditionally the time to get together and discuss the preceeding day while looking forward to the next. It is a humbling thing to be a part of. Parents, children, neighbours, managers - we all come together as a family and are reminded of our common goals and roots.

Otelo Meteriushi is a medical technician of Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetic - she is one of my nurses. Her father, Aten Meteriushi, is retired from the Caldari Navy. He is an old man now, but though he hasn't the strength of his youth his mind is still sharp. They sat near me this morning as we listened to Vanamoinen-haan announce the headlines of the days' news, as he normally does.

Aten-haan was disturbed after the meal had begun, and after I asked how his morning was doing, he explained that he was regretful. As it turns out, he was a captain in service under Admiral Yanala during her first day in command of Shiigeru, and he was sorrowful that, at the end of his life, he could not be there for her again. He explained that, if he had won any favours, he would like to visit the Admiral one last time and salute her recommission.

After breakfast, I asked the crew of LDMT Onuoto to report to the gunnery training simulators and requested that Otelo-haani be given a day of liberty to visit the family shrine. This is where I found her and Aten-haan. She was dressed in white; he was dressed in his old Naval dress uniform. I felt like I was an avatar of Heart-of-the-Forest, come to carry an old hero to his home after a long and wearying campaign. I will admit that I cried, and am glad to say that they both did also. Tears can ease the heart, sometimes.

Aten-haan sat comfortably at the weapon console of Onuoto, and never have I been prouder to have such a respected crew. The Federal Navy chased us from Algogille to Luminaire, and from there to Caldari, but we arrived unscathed. He was able to stand and salute, and he broadcast these words on the old military encryption band that was used when Admiral Yanala had first arrived all those years ago: "Meteriushi-haan, Rikugun Taii. You call, and I answer."

The Federal Navy dispatched us quickly. Do not feel anger or sadness, save for the loss of a loyal hero of the Caldari people.

Rest easy, Aten Meteriushi, Rikugun Taii. You have come home.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#69 - 2013-03-19 17:20:05 UTC
I too have heard rumors... of capsuleers prognosticating future events with scant evidence, baseless conjecture, and crackpot theories pulled directly from their rears.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-03-19 17:22:15 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
One of the joys I have is taking breakfast with my fellow kirjuun here at Lai Dai Research. Most of the workers here take at least one meal a day together in the cafeteria - breakfast is traditionally the time to get together and discuss the preceeding day while looking forward to the next. It is a humbling thing to be a part of. Parents, children, neighbours, managers - we all come together as a family and are reminded of our common goals and roots.

Otelo Meteriushi is a medical technician of Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetic - she is one of my nurses. Her father, Aten Meteriushi, is retired from the Caldari Navy. He is an old man now, but though he hasn't the strength of his youth his mind is still sharp. They sat near me this morning as we listened to Vanamoinen-haan announce the headlines of the days' news, as he normally does.

Aten-haan was disturbed after the meal had begun, and after I asked how his morning was doing, he explained that he was regretful. As it turns out, he was a captain in service under Admiral Yanala during her first day in command of Shiigeru, and he was sorrowful that, at the end of his life, he could not be there for her again. He explained that, if he had won any favours, he would like to visit the Admiral one last time and salute her recommission.

After breakfast, I asked the crew of LDMT Onuoto to report to the gunnery training simulators and requested that Otelo-haani be given a day of liberty to visit the family shrine. This is where I found her and Aten-haan. She was dressed in white; he was dressed in his old Naval dress uniform. I felt like I was an avatar of Heart-of-the-Forest, come to carry an old hero to his home after a long and wearying campaign. I will admit that I cried, and am glad to say that they both did also. Tears can ease the heart, sometimes.

Aten-haan sat comfortably at the weapon console of Onuoto, and never have I been prouder to have such a respected crew. The Federal Navy chased us from Algogille to Luminaire, and from there to Caldari, but we arrived unscathed. He was able to stand and salute, and he broadcast these words on the old military encryption band that was used when Admiral Yanala had first arrived all those years ago: "Meteriushi-haan, Rikugun Taii. You call, and I answer."

The Federal Navy dispatched us quickly. Do not feel anger or sadness, save for the loss of a loyal hero of the Caldari people.

Rest easy, Aten Meteriushi, Rikugun Taii. You have come home.



Wait, you flew him to his death; the end of that little story? Don't know what to say to that.
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#71 - 2013-03-19 17:25:22 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Rest easy, Aten Meteriushi, Rikugun Taii. You have come home.


Enemies must never forget their humanity. I am glad this gentleman was able to fulfill a final wish and go to his grave in a manner he deemed honorable and fitting.

Perhaps we can both pray that the number of further deaths this conflict will require be minimal?
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-03-19 17:28:17 UTC
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Rest easy, Aten Meteriushi, Rikugun Taii. You have come home.


Enemies must never forget their humanity. I am glad this gentleman was able to fulfill a final wish and go to his grave in a manner he deemed honorable and fitting.

Perhaps we can both pray that the number of further deaths this conflict will require be minimal?


The man died on a trip to die over a warzone to salute a Skipper on a Titan used as a suicide pack for thousands that have no say. It just seems barbaric to me.
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#73 - 2013-03-19 17:33:40 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:


The man died on a trip to die over a warzone to salute a Skipper on a Titan used as a suicide pack for thousands that have no say. It just seems barbaric to me.


It seems barbaric to you that a soldier well beyond his usefulness on the field would wish to spend his last moments paying respect to his commanding officer?

We hail from very different perspectives, clearly.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#74 - 2013-03-19 17:34:45 UTC
There is perhaps no luxury so great as to be able to pick the manner and time of ones death, as long as that is not done in despair.

It is, I think, the only sort of death that ought to be allowed.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#75 - 2013-03-19 17:39:16 UTC
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:


The man died on a trip to die over a warzone to salute a Skipper on a Titan used as a suicide pack for thousands that have no say. It just seems barbaric to me.


It seems barbaric to you that a soldier well beyond his usefulness on the field would wish to spend his last moments paying respect to his commanding officer?

We hail from very different perspectives, clearly.


We do have a thing called messages, if you want to be nothing but calculatative about it; perhaps he did do some good and let some ammo manufacturers work for a few more seconds. Other than that, I don't really believe in euthanasia and assisted suicide by exploding ship.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#76 - 2013-03-19 17:53:28 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:


The man died on a trip to die over a warzone to salute a Skipper on a Titan used as a suicide pack for thousands that have no say. It just seems barbaric to me.


It seems barbaric to you that a soldier well beyond his usefulness on the field would wish to spend his last moments paying respect to his commanding officer?

We hail from very different perspectives, clearly.


We do have a thing called messages, if you want to be nothing but calculatative about it; perhaps he did do some good and let some ammo manufacturers work for a few more seconds. Other than that, I don't really believe in euthanasia and assisted suicide by exploding ship.


The difference is at the core of what is called "The Meritocracy" when translated - it seems like an improper word for such an important foundation of the Caldari way. Messages are fine for signaling intentions, but they are insufficient for actual statements. Words are not important. Actions are important.

We all die - even we Capsuleers will face oblivion one day. He was ready to take that step of his own will, with his head high, his eyes open, and his heart full. The only cause for sorrow is that we won't hear his wisdom any longer, save that which is carried on the wind.
Erik Kaassan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-03-19 17:54:18 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:


The man died on a trip to die over a warzone to salute a Skipper on a Titan used as a suicide pack for thousands that have no say. It just seems barbaric to me.


It seems barbaric to you that a soldier well beyond his usefulness on the field would wish to spend his last moments paying respect to his commanding officer?

We hail from very different perspectives, clearly.


We do have a thing called messages, if you want to be nothing but calculatative about it; perhaps he did do some good and let some ammo manufacturers work for a few more seconds. Other than that, I don't really believe in euthanasia and assisted suicide by exploding ship.


Go right on insulting the dead. Look I disconnected from my homeworld ages ago and i have no love for Caldari leadership but respect is due to an old soldier in this particular instance. You, Kallo, apparently know nothing of honor.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-03-19 18:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kallo Unarmored
Erik Kaassan wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:


The man died on a trip to die over a warzone to salute a Skipper on a Titan used as a suicide pack for thousands that have no say. It just seems barbaric to me.


It seems barbaric to you that a soldier well beyond his usefulness on the field would wish to spend his last moments paying respect to his commanding officer?

We hail from very different perspectives, clearly.


We do have a thing called messages, if you want to be nothing but calculatative about it; perhaps he did do some good and let some ammo manufacturers work for a few more seconds. Other than that, I don't really believe in euthanasia and assisted suicide by exploding ship.


Go right on insulting the dead. Look I disconnected from my homeworld ages ago and i have no love for Caldari leadership but respect is due to an old soldier in this particular instance. You, Kallo, apparently know nothing of honor.


First, Miss Scherezad. It almost seems like your veterans are forced to think they are worthless in old age. I rather think after a lifetime of service it should be rewarded and the government should give back just a bit to make it so he wasn't suicidal due to feeling unwanted not disease. The way you described it with his sharp mind it seemed like overly flowered mental depression validated by the state.

To Mr. Kaassan I'm decrying the act and the willingness of a capsuleer to allow the man to blow himself up all for the sake of a salute; because he was worthless and burdened by what was expected of him and what he could not do in body but had a sound mind.

So yes, I do find it barbaric.
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-03-19 18:07:09 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

First, Miss Scherezad. It almost seems like your veterans are forced to think they are worthless in old age. I rather think after a lifetime of service it should be rewarded and the government should give back just a bit to make it so he wasn't suicidal due to feeling unwanted not disease. The way you described it with his sharp mind it seemed like overly flowered mental depression validated by the state.

To Mr. Kaassan I'm decrying the act and the willingness of a capsuleer to allow the man to blow himself up all for the sake of a salute; because he was worthless and burdened by what was expected of him and what he could not do in body but had a sound mind.


Congratulations. Not only do you profess complete ignorance about that which you are insulting, you insist on insulting it verbosely and indignantly.

I don't claim to fully understand the Caldari way of life or how things function in the State but it sure as the stars isn't my business to go condemning them in ignorance. Perhaps striving to understand why this would be considered a good and honorable thing in her eyes before decrying it would have been a wiser approach?
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#80 - 2013-03-19 18:11:02 UTC
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

First, Miss Scherezad. It almost seems like your veterans are forced to think they are worthless in old age. I rather think after a lifetime of service it should be rewarded and the government should give back just a bit to make it so he wasn't suicidal due to feeling unwanted not disease. The way you described it with his sharp mind it seemed like overly flowered mental depression validated by the state.

To Mr. Kaassan I'm decrying the act and the willingness of a capsuleer to allow the man to blow himself up all for the sake of a salute; because he was worthless and burdened by what was expected of him and what he could not do in body but had a sound mind.


Congratulations. Not only do you profess complete ignorance about that which you are insulting, you insist on insulting it verbosely and indignantly.

I don't claim to fully understand the Caldari way of life or how things function in the State but it sure as the stars isn't my business to go condemning them in ignorance. Perhaps striving to understand why this would be considered a good and honorable thing in her eyes before decrying it would have been a wiser approach?


Sometimes arguments aren't double sided like a coin; if they were there would be only one or two Empires due to bureaucracy and a lot fewer wars if both sides were 'correct' on social issues.