Player Features and Ideas Discussion

it's because nothing needs to be done..it's not broken. there are already counters to cloaked ships. you just have to discover them.. and removing the cloaked from local is the best thing we could do to end the stupid "AFK" cloaking posts and to put your mind at ease.

because it IS fine :)

So...

Any where else in EVE, game play is interactive, and PVP is a non consencual basis.
You can be ganked, and affected by the game at any time, by in game npc, and by players.
People who semi afk cloak expouse this as the main reason they do this game style,,

To put more risk into playing eve, that level of uncertainty....

YET;

They do this with a game mechanic that lets them do it from a place of absolute safty.
the covert cloak.
They reduce their level of uncertainty in EVE to near Zero, much less than the effect they are trying to combat in eve, the risk adverse player.

Because the game can not affect them unless they choose the time and place to drop the cloak.
They abuse the 23 / 7 log in ablity to just sit in a place with no way for the game to interact with them, yet affecting game play.
saying that the perfect intel of local is broken...

They are safe from interaction, and the afk, sitting there logged in but not playing is only aided by the so called perfect intel of local, and removing local would render the constant semi afk cloak useless as a tool of intimidation.
It would make it more effective as a ship of terror, in that you could still, log in,. swoop onto targets and interact with eve.

however, this is where the covert cloak proves its broken....

Covert cloaks can produce the same heightening of risk, the same effect on system interdiction if they...

1/ find a sutiable system to hunt,
(lets not call it camping because that's what the risk adverse covert cloak does, they only want to interact with eve on their terms.)
2/ log out to encourage players to become aviable in game. (allowing the risk adverse player to venture out into eve)
3/ log back in,
4/ find fresh prey and attack.

Even with the fix of the system defense fighters, this game play is still very achievable, should be very effective.
It also would deal with the other form of system camping, the super fast frigate mwd off to nowhwere.

However as it stands now.

Covert cloaks can only be affected by in game events when they choose to drop the cloak and interact.
They use the supposed perfect intel of local to make their game play easier, to the point they don't even have to be at the keyboard to produce a quantiflable effect in game.
Yet the game can do nothing about their presence. No other player can effectively interact with the Covert cloak who is afk.

Something simply loging out would achieve.

So, those of you who say Cloak isn't broken, and want the perfect intel of local changed, still want to be able to sit afk perfectly safe from interaction in the EVE universe,
Something you claim is the reason your doing it for?

Sorry, the argument doesn't stand up, you cant use a play style that is more risk adverse, infact immune to the main precept of EVE,

The sand box, the butterfly effect.

To claim your fixing the game for the better so that you can make everyone elses game in EVE less risk adverse by supposedly presenting a constant threat. Yet doing it form the most risk adverse, the place of maximum safty to yourself.

Give me a break.

Take out local, and the covert cloaks target rich environment only increases.
but leaves the afk covert cloak completely safe from actuly being delt with by other players.

Taking out local does not solve the cloak issue, nor does it fix the fact that a covert cloak can sit in game unaffected by the environment, unless they choose to.

players can not mine in complete safty.
they can not auto pilot in complete safty, (gankers actualy hunt afk auto pilots!)
players cant rat afk.
players cant market pvp afk.

But you can afk cloak. something that simply loging out would achieve.

This is why the thread doesn't go way, this is why a fix is needed.

And if you where in your heart true to making EVE a more challenging place, you would look at the idea of a set of system defense fighters that can only realy affect afk players and players just learing their eve trade of covert ops, as a breath of fresh air, and a solution to making eve a less risk adverse place for everyone.

It would bring the level of challenge to system interdiction to the same level of challenge every other profession in EVE has, the abitliy of other players to interact with your game at a time of their choosing, not yours.

We have a winner!

i see what you did there

You make excellent points.

Due to the need to counter local's absolute intel, cloaking in many examples can act like a pause button. It effectively hides you from unwanted contact under most circumstances.

Any change I describe always has the condition added of removal from local as well, which would still expose cloaked ships to proactive hunting efforts by those seeking anything cloaked.

It is probable that a new type of cloak may be wanted after such a change. One that quite simply let you sit in a safe spot, while being unprobable by hunters. The weakness to this could be simply that you were visible on the local grid, and were unable to move or warp while the cloak was active. (Not listed in local chat either way, just like cloaked vessels)
A true AFK Cloak, if you will, that defenders could not be any more afraid of than if you had logged out in that spot.

I have yet to see someone actually list why people going afk cloaked is a problem. The closest I've seen has been "but they arent at risk"

well, so what? They're literally incapable of doing anything, so they gain absolutely nothing.

Let me put it this way, you want the ability to easily find and kill someone who, thanks to the mechanics of cloaking themselves, as well as them being afk, literally have no possible way of ever hurting you. Are you THAT bad at internet spaceships that you need CCP to wreck all sorts of mechanics (wormhole space, active reconnaissance, etc) just so you can fight someone who is literally incapable of fighting back?

y u so bad at eve bro

you can have your anti cloaky crap if you give me cloakies that can fire while cloaked and have uber tank. And make me a sandwich when you go back to the kitchen.

Please specify how you would balance local's absolute and free intel, as your idea removes the ability for cloaking to continue this task.

With regard to local as intel- what if you appeared in local after a designated 'local entity' 'spotted' you... those entities could be:

Stargate
beacon
POS
Station
anyone in local who has an established presence in local via POS or Corp offices in a Station
acceleration gate
rats


all of those 'local entities' would have the ability to disseminate information to one another -or by virtue of existing in that local system have access (spies, bugs, de-encryption, et cetera) to know what those other entities know at such a base level of intel- that showing up in local chat could be avoided, but most likely would be the same as it is now with very few exceptions.

could you endorse something like this Nikk?