EVE General Discussion

And groups with even fewer people wouldn't be able to hold anything at all.
Bad idea.

Not at all, because they would be there to defend their rather small empire. Of course if attacked by a huge group they would fall... exaclty sam,e as today.. and exaclty same as shoudl be.

Thing is should be harder to defend, and should be impossible to defend a zone where no one lives.

Yes, because small alliances have people logged in 23.5x7.
Oh wait, no they don't - that would be the mammoth alliances with hundreds of people in all timezones.

Face it, this is a ****-tastic idea.

Expounding on what I've previously said:

Moon-goo resources could be laid in sov-null much as they are now but with varying qualities. Goo could be arranged in such a way as to have low quality, medium quality, high quality deposits. There depletion could be a variable based solely on amounts extracted over a given time period. This would require alliances to manage their extraction as well as their own size and resource utilization. The more they extract, the sooner they have to identify the next high quality deposits. Coupled with logarithmic scales of force projection the next deposit may or may not require an alliance to redefine which system their capitol resides. Ultimately this would mean alliances would have to re-examine their meta-game allegiances establishing new ones and discarding the old leading to more conflict in null.

The low and medium quality deposits may mean, with logarithmic force projection in mind, that some space may not be worth the effort for the larger alliances but, very much worth it for smaller power-blocs. These lower quality deposits could deplete sooner requiring these alliances to move more often also requiring them to re-examine and establish new relationships with the next power-bloc that they snuggle against.

Having goo also available in non-sov null in the form of ring mining would mean it acts as a buffer during periods of transition in sov-null.

But, this is all dependent on logarithmic force projection. Which if you think about it, is similar to reality in that it becomes vastly more expensive to project force outside a country's immediate sphere of influence. What we have now is completely linear. If an alliance wants to project force over the entire length of its territory and further all it need do is place jump bridges or have cyno alts available. The cost is the same no matter how far it wants to project force. By tying force projection to a defined capitol system, logarithmic force projection becomes easy to implement.

All this would culminate in the end of big static power-blocs. Even if the entirety of sov-null were alligned if/when this was implemented, due to depletion of goo, these large friendly relationships would eventually have to pose the question, "My goo is running out, my friend to the east still has plenty, do we pre-emptively wage war to acquire those resources before its too late and we no longer have the ability to do it?"

If such a system were implemented I could also foresee the end to sov grinding as it currently is leaving it only as a relatively simple formality to establish territory. Granted, there are many other factors that need to be addressed but, in my opinion, essentially, this is what should happen if we want a populated, vibrant and ever changing sov-null environment rather than the under populated and static system we have now where the current power-blocs would rather not wage war least they be committed to a war of player attrition because it just takes so damned long to accomplish.

Lemme guess, you are one of the GSF Survey bitches aren't you?

The problem with depletion is that it only generates even more static behaviour: between hoarding everything you can while you're in a good spot and then hunkering down while waiting for it to respawn, and constantly losing massive amounts of ISK chasing income that will be half (or wholly) depleted once you get there, which one do you think people will choose?

Tippia, I'll have to agree/disagree with you. But, let me outline my thinking. Depletion is something that would take months or longer to accomplish for high quality deposits. It depends on their extraction of the resource. To an extent they can control their depletion planning for it. Over time alliances will become accustomed to the hunt for the next deposit or they will become accustomed to more in-fighting to acquire existing deposits. There may indeed be hoarding. Again, non-sov null gets goo to buffer inadequate supply. But even if there is hoarding, hoarders will eventually need to expend their stockpiles to fund their empire and their conquests. As with anything in Eve there is always hoarding and always times of expenditure. So, I'm not seeing any more of an issue with hoarding than we've had in the past or present.

And besides, we're not talking about a single moon or system with high quality deposit. Alliance's space may be littered with low and medium quality deposits from which they can pull as well. These would deplete and respawn over given times within their own space further augmenting their supply of goo. But it's the high quality deposits that would provide sufficient quantities for the alliance to satiate itself on goo and establish their capitol to hold sov, somewhere in the vicinity that high quality deposit due to logarithmic force projection. Who knows, the next high quality deposit could respawn within their territory (or not) but that would require them to move their capitol to make defense of it viable, shifting their borders, requiring them to relinquish other space they previously held, allowing other interests to take over that space.

Re-read my last reply I editted it adding to it.



Yes, there would be a static rolling nature to an alliance. We don't want to destroy the alliance we just want to make it move and be variable. We want to give it a common goal beyond "Well ok, we have all the good goo, so lets um......do stuff". We want its borders to change, we want goo to be outside it's influence or interest with logarithmic force projection. We want it to move like an amoeba thru sov-null forcing it to establish new relationship, fighting new enemies and discarding old relationships that no longer serve a purpose. Deposit depletion might take two former friends and move them in opposite directions letting smaller power-blocs fill the void between.

As for a super large alliance, sure, they could do just that, but they could find that they have no high quality deposit within their borders requiring they fight. It could weaken them to the extent that others around them could attack sort of the barbarians at the gates of Rome.

But the randomness of depletion coupled with extraction rates may fracture and divide such a coalition as you speak of. If one or the other alliance in the coalition depletes their resources too quickly, they may be more like to attack or be attack if they're no longer serving a purpose for the other alliance.

Maybe, maybe not. But it would have to be better than what we have now. The reality is until a change is made and we see how things change noone can say for sure. But the variability of moving borders may add just enough dynamic to null.

Very good response to someone who has been in goons for all of two weeks. Very good