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Gazmin VanBurin

Boma Bull Corp

Likes received: 86

#201 - 2011-10-29 15:08:35 UTC

Allot of people are complaining about the Talos's web bonus, but I think the main reason they gave it a web bonus is that they wanted to help its tracking without making it another mega, or making the bonus same as the caldari blaster fit one. The amarr ships is also suposidly getting a tracking bonus, so most of them are getting help with making their over sized guns more useful. it may be better if they only gave it a 5% bonus rather than a 10% tho.

Other than that love the ship, as a pure gallent pilot im looking forward to it.

Crazy KSK

Tsunami Cartel

Likes received: 118

#202 - 2011-10-29 15:31:04 UTC | Edited by: Crazy KSK

Gazmin VanBurin wrote:

I think that bonus is too much of the good since it makes that talos able to even kill frigates if it gets in range (and not dies before that)

I think it should get a ROF bonus as its second bonus to boost its dps into the viable spectrum
since it probably arrives at its target in halve armor and then has to catch up

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Tanya Powers

Doomheim

Likes received: 2,092

#203 - 2011-10-29 15:48:38 UTC

Crazy KSK wrote:

I think that bonus is too much of the good since it makes that talos able to even kill frigates if it gets in range (and not dies before that)

Why would you get in to his web range?

1- you know his weapon system can't track **** "haha you're going to die in a fireball in 5mn, the time my buddy log and make those 5 jumps to kill you"

2-because some fit scrams in to their frigs

3-because some are used to "wtf is just a wallente he can't harm you !!"

Quote:

I think it should get a ROF bonus as its second bonus to boost its dps into the viable spectrum
since it probably arrives at its target in halve armor and then has to catch up

Since Gallente are the closest range weapon system by far over 300% disadvantage, have the slowest hulls supporting those once fitted and for the range envelope, can't let the mwd on all day long to catch whatever.

The web bonus is long due to blasters, all blasters and not just Talos.

You can still kite them or CHOOSE to come in to web range with your ubber autocanons

You can still kite them or burn them with your lasers before they get close to you or maintain distance while burning them

You can still "shoot from there" with your Torps

You can also think you're better than everyone and every one should play like YOU want and and whine because of some bonus when you're not supposed to fight in that range

What do you choose?

I choose to wait and see if it really comes out with that bonus, and yes if it does your travels will be a nightmare at gates so what, didn't every one told you Eve is harsh and about ships destruction?

Gazmin VanBurin

Boma Bull Corp

Likes received: 86

#204 - 2011-10-29 15:51:30 UTC

Crazy KSK wrote:

it dose enough dps, it dosent need a ROF bonus, tho I do think 90% webs is a bit much we they will likely be able to fit 2 of those webs. maybe a reduction to a 5% bonus to webs would be better.

Tanya Powers

Doomheim

Likes received: 2,092

#205 - 2011-10-29 16:02:52 UTC

Gazmin VanBurin wrote:

Crazy KSK wrote:

it dose enough dps, it dosent need a ROF bonus, tho I do think 90% webs is a bit much we they will likely be able to fit 2 of those webs. maybe a reduction to a 5% bonus to webs would be better.

When you largest weapon system means you shoot FROM OVER 45km, you have nothing to do under 15km range of those, if you choose to do so you must pay the consequences.

The web bonus helps for sure but it's long overdue, no weapon system should come under 15km of any blaster ship without getting face melted before he can open his window to show his finger to the blaster pilot.

Kite it or die in, this is what everyone daring to get in to blaster range should have in mind and not the present situation every one knows.

Let the whiners whine, fracking ship isn't even there they're already crying full oceans...jesus.

0
Omnipharious Likes received: 0	#206 - 2011-10-29 16:33:43 UTC I love my Proteus!, and I'm sure that I'll love the TALOS even more! This ship looks Awesome. Does anyone know what skills are going to be required to fly this Magnificent Beauty of a Beast? The ONLY thing to Fear in Battle is Self-Doubt...


Crazy KSK Tsunami Cartel Likes received: 118	#207 - 2011-10-29 16:53:01 UTC 1 exactly! thats why I think the web bonus is bad on the talos, anyone is just gonna kite it till gallente gets to be the fastest race a web bonus like this is wasted since it will never get into range to use it Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

David Xavier

The Capsuleers of Unconscious Thought

Likes received: 29

#208 - 2011-10-29 16:55:50 UTC

To be honest l would rather like to see a tracking bonus or agility or speed (as resists are out of the question) instead of the +5% damage to large hybrid turrets.

On a side note, even after the 100th view it still looks like a brick with a wedge glued on the front of it. But hey you managed to make a ship that looks even worse than the asymmetric atrocities like the thorax and that is quite a feat !

I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it !

Omnipharious

Likes received: 0

#209 - 2011-10-29 16:58:18 UTC

Anna Lynne Larson wrote:

Tiger's Spirit wrote:

[+] Talos
[+|n] bcLargeHybridTurretCPUNeedBonus
[+|n] bcLargeHybridTurretCapacitorNeedBonus
[+|n] bcLargeHybridTurretPowerNeedBonus
[+|n] leadershipCpuBonus
[+|n] massFactor
[+|n] shipHybridDamageBonusBC2
[+|n] shipStasisWebSpeedFactorBonusBC1
[+] agility: 0.56
[+] armorEmDamageResonance: 0.5
[+] armorExplosiveDamageResonance: 0.9
[+] armorHP: 2272.0
[+] armorKineticDamageResonance: 0.65
[+] armorThermalDamageResonance: 0.65
[+] armorUniformity: 0.75
[+] baseWarpSpeed: 1.0
[+] bcLargeTurretCPU: 0.5
[+] bcLargeTurretCap: 0.5
[+] bcLargeTurretPower: 0.05
[+] capacitorCapacity: 3100.0
[+] capacity: 600.0
[+] cpuLoad: 0
[+] cpuOutput: 400.0
[+] damage: 0
[+] droneBandwidth: 25.0
[+] droneCapacity: 25.0
[+] emDamageResonance: 1.0
[+] explosiveDamageResonance: 1.0
[+] fwLpKill: 200.0
[+] gfxBoosterID: 394.0
[+] heatAttenuationHi: 0.76
[+] heatAttenuationLow: 0.76
[+] heatAttenuationMed: 0.71
[+] heatCapacityHi: 100.0
[+] heatCapacityLow: 100.0
[+] heatCapacityMed: 100.0
[+] heatDissipationRateHi: 0.01
[+] heatDissipationRateLow: 0.01
[+] heatDissipationRateMed: 0.01
[+] heatGenerationMultiplier: 0.65
[+] hiSlots: 8.0
[+] hp: 2597.0
[+] kineticDamageResonance: 1.0
[+] launcherSlotsLeft: 0
[+] lowSlots: 5.0
[+] mainColor: 16777215.0
[+] mass: 12000000.0
[+] maxDirectionalVelocity: 2000.0
[+] maxLockedTargets: 7.0
[+] maxPassengers: 450.0
[+] maxTargetRange: 70000.0
[+] maxVelocity: 210.0
[+] medSlots: 4.0
[+] minTargetVelDmgMultiplier: 0.25
[+] powerLoad: 0
[+] powerOutput: 1150.0
[+] powerToSpeed: 1.0
[+] propulsionGraphicID: 394.0
[+] rechargeRate: 775000.0
[+] requiredSkill1: 3332.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 3.0
[+] requiredSkill2: 12099.0
[+] requiredSkill2Level: 3.0
[+] rigSize: 2.0
[+] rigSlots: 3.0
[+] scanGravimetricStrength: 0
[+] scanLadarStrength: 0
[+] scanMagnetometricStrength: 20.0
[+] scanRadarStrength: 0
[+] scanResolution: 230.0
[+] scanSpeed: 5500.0
[+] shieldCapacity: 2111.0
[+] shieldEmDamageResonance: 1.0
[+] shieldExplosiveDamageResonance: 0.5
[+] shieldKineticDamageResonance: 0.6
[+] shieldRechargeRate: 1400000.0
[+] shieldThermalDamageResonance: 0.8
[+] shieldUniformity: 0.75
[+] shipBonusBC1: 10.0
[+] shipBonusBC2: 5.0
[+] signatureRadius: 200.0
[+] structureUniformity: 0.75
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] thermalDamageResonance: 1.0
[+] turretSlotsLeft: 8.0
[+] typeColorScheme: 11331.0
[+] uniformity: 1.0
[+] upgradeCapacity: 400.0
[+] upgradeSlotsLeft: 3.0
[+] volume: 270000.0
[+] warpCapacitorNeed: 8.13e-07
[+] warpFactor: 0

Or for players who don't want to translate;

Gallente - Talos
Skills required: Gallente Cruiser III, Battlecruisers II

Bonuses:
Role Bonus:
50% reduction to Large Hybrid Turret CPU requirements
50% reduction to Large Hybrid Turret cap usage
95% reduction to Large Hybrid Turret powergrid requirements

Battlecruisers skill bonus:
10% bonus to velocity factor of Stasis Webifiers per level
5% increase to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level

Shield HP: 2111.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 0/50/40/20
Armor HP: 2272.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 50/10/35/35
Structure HP: 2597.0 (of course, it's a Gallente ship)
Resistances: 0/0/0/0

Capacitor: 3100GJ
Cargohold: 600m3
Drone Bandwidth: 25Mbit/s
Drone Bay: 25m3
Max Locked targets: 7
Max Lock range: 70km
Max Velocity: 210m/s
Magnetometric Sensor strength: 20
Scan resolution: 230
Sig radius: 200

CPU: 400tf
Powergrid: 1150mW
High slots: 8.0
Turret Slots: 8.0
Medium slots: 4.0
Low slots: 5.0
400 Calibration and 3 rig slots

If those are the only skills required. Then that's GREAT! It took me over 30 days to get into the Proteus. LOL:-)

The ONLY thing to Fear in Battle is Self-Doubt...


Omnipharious Likes received: 0	#210 - 2011-10-29 17:01:11 UTC Crazy KSK wrote: exactly! thats why I think the web bonus is bad on the talos, anyone is just gonna kite it till gallente gets to be the fastest race a web bonus like this is wasted since it will never get into range to use it I agree, that web bonus should be used on something else... The ONLY thing to Fear in Battle is Self-Doubt...

Terran Colonial Guard 3
ariel jade Terran Colonial Guard Likes received: 3	#211 - 2011-10-29 18:10:12 UTC \| Edited by: ariel jade 1 I haven't looked at what the specs for the Talos are but just from the design drawing on it, the front end of the ship looks like crap.

Production N Destruction INC. F O R M I C I D A E 82
Haseo Antares Production N Destruction INC. F O R M I C I D A E Likes received: 82	#212 - 2011-10-29 18:39:06 UTC \| Edited by: Haseo Antares Duchess Starbuckington wrote: Dear CCP, You owe me a new pair of pants. They owe me a new pair aswell. Unfortunately these pants were of the $1000 variety : /. I say we file a joint petition. We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode what you just said.

Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 14
Anna Lynne Larson Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 14	#213 - 2011-10-29 19:23:26 UTC Personally I'd rather have the Talos have an optimal range bonus of like, 7.5-10% instead of the web bonus. That'd make for some fun times.

Jill Antaris

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 111

#214 - 2011-10-29 23:02:20 UTC | Edited by: Jill Antaris

Crazy KSK wrote:

I think that bonus is too much of the good since it makes that talos able to even kill frigates if it gets in range (and not dies before that)

BS sized blasters where not able to project serious dps against frigs sub 5km in the pre QR area in a tracking bonused mega. This was ages before the introduction of mwd stopping scrams and the ab buff. What made blaster pilots this devastating was the deeper knowledge of the delayed slow down effects, using the full force and utility of a 90% web to her advantage to put the ship in a preferable position(what wasn't sub 5km against undersized stuff) and forcing stuff into peak dps situations against anybody that was less familiar with this scenario(what where pre QR nearly 90% of your targets). If you think the 90% web will give you the upper hand with approach and press F1 against a frig pilot that know what he does you are wrong, since he will avoid your web range our use undershooting after the slowdown to get and stay close. Close range fighting was more of a art back in the days before the stupid paper rock scissor stuff that watered down input of real player skill for point blank combat what made blaster pvp basically the art of superior range and transversal control to keep your target in a position where you could apply full force against your target and beat it by your superior force. A clear sign of this should be the fact that blaster vents protested, as CCP took away here tool for skilled point blank take downs even in 1oX scenarios. Exactly this people that trained her players skills in range control, transversal control, prediction and adaption to tactics and scenarios within web range to very high levels to fight all the time at exactly this ranges, that they made anybody else believe it actually was sudden death range, with the very limited advantages they had there.

Crazy KSK wrote:

I think it should get a ROF bonus as its second bonus to boost its dps into the viable spectrum
since it probably arrives at its target in halve armor and then has to catch up

Except you would even outgank tachyon fittings with rails and a powerful web can easily add a lot more than just 33% to your projected DPS on the target for a skilled close range pilot by giving him a greater level of range and transversal control at point blank. What the Talon is missing atm is a extra med and a more balanced EHP that considers point blank use and the level of durability it takes to become a effective ship at this ranges.

Crazy KSK

Tsunami Cartel

Likes received: 118

#215 - 2011-10-30 00:15:38 UTC

Jill Antaris wrote:

..............

okay that with the ROF bonus might be a bit too much (even though the moros gets one lol)
and it might have been true that the web strength was the key to the power of blaster ships back then
but right now the main problem is that blaster ships are too slow to catch up or even get into web range of anything that wants to kite them, so every bonus is better than that web bonus, since it will never be in range to use it
also in a situation where it did catch its target, its gonna be game over for the target ship,
which I guess is my main point anyway
why give such a cheap ship a bonus that is on one hand very strong and on the other useless?

also in its intended roll which is I guess killing bigger ships than itself
the web bonus is also of little use since your target is not gonna outrun you anyway

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Pattern Clarc

Citeregis

Likes received: 604

#216 - 2011-10-30 00:54:06 UTC | Edited by: Pattern Clarc

The division between gallente pilots on how to fix gallente is fascinating to watch. Split 3 ways on what a fixed state would be, with almost infinite variations on how to achieve it.

On a seperate note, current stats suggest that these things will have half the sig radius of battlecruisers, and will be substaincially faster than most cruisers...

Hold me.

In that context the talos web bonus makes a lot of sense.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Jill Antaris

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 111

#217 - 2011-10-30 01:07:47 UTC

Crazy KSK wrote:

Jill Antaris wrote:

..............

The speed difference was a lot larger back in the days, raging from 2-8 times the km/s that your hull did. However the key tactics of maximizing the transversal if you can't do damage and minimizing them if you can put blaster pvpers in a actually very strong position in this fights. They did know how to force the target into situation where they take damage(given that fleshed out nano fittings where next to immune against any non forced approach of gun, missile or drone use) and minimize the damage they have to take outside of it.

While blaster ships are generally to slow today, they are not build around catching targets by raw speed in general fittings but surprise, experience and tactical awareness of the situation. If you think you can overcome a target by just catching it(even with a 90% web) you lack experience in close range pvp, since the dps advantage isn't this high to score the kill if you don't end up in a superior position after getting into this range against a skilled ac or laser user.

The bonus is extreme strong in skilled hands(that used it as a superior tool to control a target) and small gang/solo pvp where blaster pvp once dominated the field while it is fairly pointless in bigger scenarios or without superior player skill. I think this is the right direction to go for blaster pvp overall, giving it back the power and functionality(in skilled hands) at close range in his niche without making it a general concept for pvp itself.

Jill Antaris

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 111

#218 - 2011-10-30 01:32:20 UTC | Edited by: Jill Antaris

Pattern Clarc wrote:

The division between gallente pilots on how to fix gallente is fascinating to watch. Split 3 ways on what a fixed state would be, with almost infinite variations on how to achieve it.

What else you would expect from a weapon system and tactical approach being basically dead for quite some years now? Most people simply stating the lack of versatility of the combat style and weapon itself today, and I can't blame them for this. The more radical counterpoint that you see from time to time coming up are from the people that learned the way how her tool works the hard way(death or glory).

Blaster pvp is high skilled close range pvp in motion and produced some of the most dedicated pilots, that can easy adept this principles to other styles(like nano), using her superior awareness of the situation to her advantage and appealing the concepts to minimize transversal and maxing out the damage output into some sort of med range peak dps gank. What this people actually miss is her close range option, giving them the same advantage as nano fittings(range and transversal control, what they use to take down her target) in close range combat.

Not So Smart 9
Malsia Vaille Not So Smart Likes received: 9	#219 - 2011-10-30 03:02:57 UTC Wow, that looks great. I want one!

Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 270
Joelleaveek Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation Likes received: 270	#220 - 2011-10-30 03:06:31 UTC I'm throwing money at my monitor and nothing is happening!!!!