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Dev blog: Updates to Team Security and the ongoing war on botting

First post
Author
Whitehound
#81 - 2013-03-18 19:50:00 UTC
Dear CCP Sreegs,

why are you leaving us?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#82 - 2013-03-18 19:50:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Primary This Rifter
iskflakes wrote:
Another issue I want to quickly mention is your policy on ISBoxer. ISBoxer used to be "approved", but it's not anymore.

How many times does CCP have to say "our stance on this has not changed" before you get that it hasn't changed?

Furthermore CCP is aware of players using teamspeak and mumble overlay programs and the like and have never indicated any desire to ban them.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#83 - 2013-03-18 19:54:00 UTC
Olaf4862 wrote:
Just a thought but banning just the account for 30 days is not going to hurt a botter with multiple accounts.

Might I suggest a ban on the IP used also for 24 hrs to make the point clear that botting is not acceptable. This will do more then just effect their botted account but any other account coming from that IP.
Yes I understand that it might adversely effect players in the same household who are not botting but an IP block might help to put on the added per pressure that its not OK to bot. Twisted

IIRC CCP bans all accounts that have logged in from the same computer(s) used to play the primary account that was banned.
Stray Bullets
Perkone
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-03-18 20:03:52 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
Another issue I want to quickly mention is your policy on ISBoxer. ISBoxer used to be "approved", but it's not anymore.

How many times does CCP have to say "our stance on this has not changed" before you get that it hasn't changed?

Furthermore CCP is aware of players using teamspeak and mumble overlay programs and the like and have never indicated any desire to ban them.


Sorry mate, GM Nythanos says otherwise. The answer to my petition was, not quoting, "we cannot allow such software to be used". The petition was basically "Is ISBOXER allowed?".
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#85 - 2013-03-18 20:19:34 UTC
I would like to say thanks to CCP for posting this blog-nice things to read there!
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#86 - 2013-03-18 20:21:53 UTC
Stray Bullets wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
Another issue I want to quickly mention is your policy on ISBoxer. ISBoxer used to be "approved", but it's not anymore.

How many times does CCP have to say "our stance on this has not changed" before you get that it hasn't changed?

Furthermore CCP is aware of players using teamspeak and mumble overlay programs and the like and have never indicated any desire to ban them.


Sorry mate, GM Nythanos says otherwise. The answer to my petition was, not quoting, "we cannot allow such software to be used". The petition was basically "Is ISBOXER allowed?".

Then GM Nythanos is wrong.
Seras VictoriaX
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-03-18 20:27:57 UTC
Question for CCP:
What is the recommended way to multibox on 1 computer? Using the standard Launcher seems to crash a lot for me when running more than 2 clients side by side.


Question for anyone:
What is the desire for people to RMT when you can just purchase a plex and sell it legally?

Vincent Athena wrote:
A player who wants to RMT goes to a friend who does not play eve and says:

"Could you start a character in Eve, buy a pile of ISK via RMT, then sell me the character?"


Why would anyone do that over just selling a plex in jita for an instant 500mil?
Stray Bullets
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-03-18 20:31:47 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Stray Bullets wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
Another issue I want to quickly mention is your policy on ISBoxer. ISBoxer used to be "approved", but it's not anymore.

How many times does CCP have to say "our stance on this has not changed" before you get that it hasn't changed?

Furthermore CCP is aware of players using teamspeak and mumble overlay programs and the like and have never indicated any desire to ban them.


Sorry mate, GM Nythanos says otherwise. The answer to my petition was, not quoting, "we cannot allow such software to be used". The petition was basically "Is ISBOXER allowed?".

Then GM Nythanos is wrong.


You made me chuckle :D 3/10! A senior GM answering a EULA petition is wrong. And who are you anyway? :)
Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-03-18 20:39:57 UTC
KILL THE GOD DAM JITA SPAMMERS PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-03-18 20:40:28 UTC
see how annoying it is !
Spurty
#91 - 2013-03-18 20:57:48 UTC
These things don't even cause a disruption of service.

Imagine the tears if "employing tactics that cause an intentional disruption of service" was cause for a 30 Day ban.

The fun never ends, but employment at CCP does.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#92 - 2013-03-18 22:09:21 UTC
I still remember the "where should I put my bot" conversations test members had on teamspeak, when they moved into Fountain. Roll That was'nt the only null sec alliance such talk have been observed over the years. But considering the amount people spend on loosing ships, i don't think anything else suffers than the oponent. Although it gets interesting after a while. If alliance A, B and C makes tons of cash botting + income from tax, rent etc, then Alliance D,E,F and G needs to do the same or loose everything. With all the paradigm shifts we have seen these last couple of years. I belive one of the main factors in these shifts have been income from bots. Neither CCP or the Null Sec alliances will ever confirm that, but who needs confirmation, when given time, you can hear talk about botting your self, on the various types of Comms they use.

Ratting bots and mining bots dont harm the game much imo, i think the sheer hapiness of blowing away that cash solves the issue by itself. (As long as its not easy to do) The spamming and market bots are really hurting the game.. People get sick of never selling their stuff or get the same message all over the screen repetadly. I belive the market bot speaks for it self.

Chribba post #6 wrote some good questions about reporting bots. If CCP can answer these, it would be easier for people to understand the process when they report bots.

Vincent post #20 have a good suggestion to lower the count of people having thougths about botting, actually going ahead with botting. He suggests putting it on the login screen. Imo i would put under a security tab in the start up launcher.

I don't know whats worse, bots or the current moongoo/sov mechanics situation...
Stray Bullets
Perkone
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-03-18 22:23:25 UTC
Bots are always worse.

What pisses me off is that CCP chooses to make a different then literal interpretation of their own EULA and then refuses to tell you if X or Y application is allowed. So basically, someone has to get banned first so the rest of us know that it's not allowed!

It's the first time in my life that I've played a game where the rules are vague and the even the referee doesn't know them! Lol He merely interprets the thing as he sees fit at that time :D
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#94 - 2013-03-18 22:26:53 UTC
Stray Bullets wrote:
You made me chuckle :D 3/10! A senior GM answering a EULA petition is wrong. And who are you anyway? :)

Someone who happened to read several recent replies by CCP explicitly stating that ISBoxer is not banned.
Stray Bullets
Perkone
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-03-18 22:32:16 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Stray Bullets wrote:
You made me chuckle :D 3/10! A senior GM answering a EULA petition is wrong. And who are you anyway? :)

Someone who happened to read several recent replies by CCP explicitly stating that ISBoxer is not banned.


Like I said, I made a petition due to all the fuss on the forums. GM Nythanos says otherwise ... in the common CCPish way (read vague(ish)) :)
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#96 - 2013-03-18 22:36:42 UTC
Respond and ask who takes precedence.
Stray Bullets
Perkone
Caldari State
#97 - 2013-03-18 22:40:15 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Respond and ask who takes precedence.


If you notice, the DEVs merely say that their policy hasn't changed and since the posts dictating said policy were all ninja edited, no one can actually say for sure what the policy is.

It's stupid and that's what I've been saying all along. It's stupid to be ambiguous about the rules instead of being clear.

If you want to enforce the rules, then do so on a literal base and disallow any and all third party tool like the TOS say.
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#98 - 2013-03-18 22:48:25 UTC
I always wondered why some people feel such a need to bend everything they get between their hands to something filthy. You say the rules are vage, but to many and me they are pretty clear. It doesnt make sense that you want to do something so out of the box with a game that you have to break the rules. Why play the game at all? Maybe if it was illigal and you could actually get a sentence in irl, you wouldnt do it. But then I'm actually calling you a petty theif.. And you know what, since you can't play fair like the rest of us, i don't mind.

Rules are enforced, if you find yourself at the wrong end of the stick, you can't come and complain.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-03-18 23:11:45 UTC
mynnna wrote:
... instead of taking what appears to be the preferred route of "ignore them and hope they go away."
It looks like the security devs in this thread are hoping you'll go away.

Keep up with the questions and pressure, Mynnna. It's an important line of inquiry.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-03-18 23:18:43 UTC
Well they did learn from Sreegs, who in many respects was a master at it. Blink

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal