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And you thought HI was too safe???? Welcome to Thunderdome™

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Donald MacRury
LankTech
#161 - 2013-03-18 07:34:22 UTC
I'll be honest that there are some things that I am not familar with when it comes to null sec, and it takes a while to learn from what i've noticed.

From my perspective it seamed to make sense for it to take a while and be hard to grind through someone's sov but after thinking maybe that should only apply if an alliance is activtly defending their space. If an alliance abandon's their space then maybe their structures should weaken or become easier to take.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#162 - 2013-03-18 09:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
DarthNefarius wrote:
dark heartt wrote:


Just because Shadoo wants to recreate RvB in null (don't deny it, that's what you want), doesn't mean that there is an imbalance of safety. It just means that they want to have good fights without worrying about using the terrible sov system.

/rant.


Weellll I guess I have no problems with RvB in NULL ( if it gets your rocks off fine ) just it does remind me of the risk aversion being decried about HI being replicated in NULL... just don't blame CCP for your own risk aversion


The things HS asks for are generally along the lines of: "Make us safer using NPC magic."

The things Nullsec is asking for are along the lines of : "Give us a good reason to kick the crap out of each other, and make it easier to kick each other out of our space."

Totally the same thing.


Since there's no reason to take space from each other apart from bragging rights, and taking space is a months long ordeal of shooting inanimate objects, why not put the same Trillions of ISK that would go into a major Sov War on the line in a battledome for no reason other than bragging rights and skip the months long ordeal of Sov grinding?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Anunzi
Solace Corp
#163 - 2013-03-18 13:01:32 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


Weellll I guess I have no problems with RvB in NULL ( if it gets your rocks off fine ) just it does remind me of the risk aversion being decried about HI being replicated in NULL... just don't blame CCP for your own risk aversion





So, what happened to you Nefarius? A huge percentage of your posts are ranting and raving at the “risk adverse nullbears” as you like to call us.
Did you get griefed while applying to the gewns or something? Did PL hot drop you?

I just cant help noticing the amount of bitter pouring out of you is so intense its even made your avatar look like he’s just drank a pint of neat lemon juice.

Also, blue donut eh?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16845619

"It was the way she said it, Rimmer, to rhyme with scum"
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#164 - 2013-03-18 16:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Anunzi wrote:


So, what happened to you Nefarius? A huge percentage of your posts are ranting and raving at the “risk adverse nullbears” as you like to call us.
Did you get griefed while applying to the gewns or something? Did PL hot drop you?

I just cant help noticing the amount of bitter pouring out of you is so intense its even made your avatar look like he’s just drank a pint of neat lemon juice.

Also, blue donut eh?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16845619



So in order to prove to me there is no big blue doughnut you post a kill in HI SEC?
Looks like NULL has run out of targets because they're all blue & has to resort to traveling to HI by your account yet still gank blue targets Lol

Welcome to Thunderdome™ Udema
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#165 - 2013-03-18 16:10:06 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Anunzi wrote:


So, what happened to you Nefarius? A huge percentage of your posts are ranting and raving at the “risk adverse nullbears” as you like to call us.
Did you get griefed while applying to the gewns or something? Did PL hot drop you?

I just cant help noticing the amount of bitter pouring out of you is so intense its even made your avatar look like he’s just drank a pint of neat lemon juice.

Also, blue donut eh?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16845619



So in order to prove to me there is no big blue doughnut you post a kill in HI SEC?
Looks like NULL has run out of targets because they're all blue & has to resort totraveling to HI by your account


No one can e this dumb for real. I call troll.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-03-18 16:10:57 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
So in order to prove to me there is no big blue doughnut you post a kill in HI SEC?
Looks like NULL has run out of targets because they're all blue & has to resort totraveling to HI by your account


because naturally GSF members suicide ganking a jumpfreighter in hisec is not indicative of the fact that we're not blue to the HBC

can you explain this bit of logic

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2013-03-18 17:01:36 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Donald MacRury wrote:
So if people have a problem with this then maybe they should spend more time of coming up with creative ways of dealing with it rather than spending time complaining that eve should be changed. Every problem has a solution and it doesn't have to involve the mechanics of the system to be changed for it.


The two fundamental problems with Null are:
1. There is relatively little incentive to take space.
2. There are literally Billions of EHP to grind through once you break the enemy and they leave. (Ignoring resists, it would take a 250 man fleet of Hellcats working 8 hours a day several months to take CFC or HBC space. With resists, longer, ofc).

Both of those are problems with the game mechanics. What's your magical non-game-mechanic-changing solution to these problems?


Frankly, Ruby, of the two, #1 is the significantly more troubling problem. If #1 were fixed (in some fashion, don't ask me how), #2 would cease to be a problem (or more accurately, would stop being perceived as being as large of a problem as it is now).

Grinding off billions of hitpoints is always going to suck, but there are many levels of suck, and having a good reason to engage in the suck can make it less unappealing.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Hannah Flex
#168 - 2013-03-18 17:15:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannah Flex
.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2013-03-18 17:18:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
baltec1 wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

What has our numbers got to do with the soul crushingly bad time everyone has with grinding down endless structure hitpoints for solid month?


Because when you have all the numbers and your goal is to conquer and divide up the whole universe, all that you get is a soul crushing bad time of shooting structures, and you deserve it. You'd think this is obvious.




So the trillions of hitpoints you have to burn through in a sov war simply go away if we have smaller powerblocks?

You do realise that it will take even longer with smaller fleets right?



I think it would grant the chance to those who don't see the grind as being such an eyebleed. New blood might not be so hesitant to give it a go since they are not jaded to process as of yet. And if they do... well... they got to try.

And you got new people into null.

Guess it could make more sense to take on a "if you can't beat them join them" attitude though, in the face of complaining how it's broken and needs to be fixed while I'm currently using it as intended.....

Bleh =(. Sounds like too many fat kids are complaining of their weight as they bite into a big frosting covered piece of cake and bitching at their parents at the same time for giving it to them.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2013-03-18 17:18:59 UTC
Hannah Flex wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Donald MacRury wrote:
So if people have a problem with this then maybe they should spend more time of coming up with creative ways of dealing with it rather than spending time complaining that eve should be changed. Every problem has a solution and it doesn't have to involve the mechanics of the system to be changed for it.


The two fundamental problems with Null are:
1. There is relatively little incentive to take space.
2. There are literally Billions of EHP to grind through once you break the enemy and they leave. (Ignoring resists, it would take a 250 man fleet of Hellcats working 8 hours a day several months to take CFC or HBC space. With resists, longer, ofc).

Both of those are problems with the game mechanics. What's your magical non-game-mechanic-changing solution to these problems?


Frankly, Ruby, of the two, #1 is the significantly more troubling problem. If #1 were fixed (in some fashion, don't ask me how), #2 would cease to be a problem (or more accurately, would stop being perceived as being as large of a problem as it is now).

Grinding off billions of hitpoints is always going to suck, but there are many levels of suck, and having a good reason to engage in the suck can make it less unappealing.


Believe it or not a lot of EVE Online sovereignty warfare is based around an alarm clock. An alarm clock in real life. Like you have to set your alarm to wake up in the middle of the night and do a thing in EVE Online and hope you dont oversleep then and make it to work/class.


Oh trust me, I believe it. There is, frankly, nothing about the current sov grind that does not suck balls like a porn star. The lack of a reason to engage in the grind only makes the problem worse.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Hannah Flex
#171 - 2013-03-18 17:27:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannah Flex
.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#172 - 2013-03-18 17:31:22 UTC
I don't understand the appeal of PvP if there is no risk.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#173 - 2013-03-18 17:40:36 UTC
i love it when wretches compare wargames to RvB

as if nobody can interfere in them and as if we have ridiculous rules like "don't pod" or "don't primary hostile FCs" or "don't use ECM it's DISHONOURABLE" and "don't interfere in honourable 1v1s"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Dave Stark
#174 - 2013-03-18 17:45:14 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I don't understand the appeal of PvP if there is no risk.


green killboard stats.
Alara IonStorm
#175 - 2013-03-18 17:51:59 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
The lack of a reason to engage in the grind only makes the problem worse.

You would think 15% of players controlling the space would be incentive for the other 85%.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2013-03-18 17:59:47 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
The lack of a reason to engage in the grind only makes the problem worse.

You would think 15% of players controlling the space would be incentive for the other 85%.


It probably would be - if you could get enough of the 85% all moving in the same direction. The issue is that for a sov war to be successful against one of the major power blocks, you need to have the numbers to A) take the space away and then B) defend against the oncoming storm. The issue then becomes herding enough cats in one direction to make standing up against their fleets possible. I fought in the battle of 42SU-L when IRC lost their CSAA - I've seen the 800 man Maelstrom fleets the CFC can call out first hand.

Rousting enough of the 85% out of the self induced torpor to challenge that kind of combat might (and keep them interested long enough to finish gathering them in the first place) is a task that would make the following sov war look like a casual evening stroll.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#177 - 2013-03-18 18:11:51 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
The lack of a reason to engage in the grind only makes the problem worse.

You would think 15% of players controlling the space would be incentive for the other 85%.

Why?

Lol

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#178 - 2013-03-18 18:30:49 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I don't understand the appeal of PvP if there is no risk.


green killboard stats.


killboard stats the birth of all evil

wumbo
Alara IonStorm
#179 - 2013-03-18 18:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

You would think 15% of players controlling the space would be incentive for the other 85%.

Why?

Lol

Because you are posting in a 9 page thread that goes on and on about how these Moons are so valuable and controlled by a small portion of the player base. Somehow moving them will bring about war, then perhaps people should try and conquer them.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#180 - 2013-03-18 18:40:30 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

You would think 15% of players controlling the space would be incentive for the other 85%.

Why?

Lol

Because you are posting in a 9 page thread that goes on and on about how these Moons are so valuable and controlled by a small portion of the player base. Somehow moving them will bring about war, then perhaps people should try and conquer them.


What? The high sec lords doing things for themselves?!