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EHP is not reliable.
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Oscilo
Rotten Kimchi Squadron
#1 - 2013-03-18 03:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Oscilo
Look at this video first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3-RPAhFpwg

Freighter(EHP180K)-CitadelTorpedo(Volley140K)=FreighterWreck

Yeah, It is Ridiculous.

At least, freighter Hull is more than 140K. Resistance is not an issue.

In my opinion is this.

In a short period of time*More than a certain percentage of the Hull has damaged='pop'

So what do you think of this?
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#2 - 2013-03-18 04:41:06 UTC
But those are freaking dreadnought class missiles meant to bore through tougher targets, and with the slow speed of freighters they may as well be stationary. Also, wouldn't that be Hp, not ehp considering that's not far away from the structure, armor, and shield hit points combined? Also considering the kinetic hole and the dc less structure I can't see this not happening

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-03-18 04:44:53 UTC
The missiles are doing ~120k after resists, which is less than the raw HP before resists of a freighter, so not sure what's going on there.

However, I have been alpha'd down to 2-3% structure before, so I doubt a certain % of hull damage that is less than 100% would do it
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-03-18 04:50:19 UTC
Did freighter nerf hit SiSi? I didn't know they needed one...
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#5 - 2013-03-18 05:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: BadAssMcKill
Drake Doe wrote:
But those are freaking dreadnought class missiles meant to bore through tougher targets, and with the slow speed of freighters they may as well be stationary. Also, wouldn't that be Hp, not ehp considering that's not far away from the structure, armor, and shield hit points combined? Also considering the kinetic hole and the dc less structure I can't see this not happening



Phoenix with max skills and 4 CN BCUs does about 150k Kinetic damage per volley, Obelisk with damage profile set to Kinetic in EFT has about 204k EHP so it shouldn't be straight vollied


Maybe the characters in the freighters didn't have their tanking skills maxed out?
Alara IonStorm
#6 - 2013-03-18 06:21:37 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:

Maybe the characters in the freighters didn't have their tanking skills maxed out?

That's what I thought too. It would pop the Prov but the Obelisk still stays above 160k.
Oscilo
Rotten Kimchi Squadron
#7 - 2013-03-18 07:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Oscilo
Thank you for watching.

But, All characters of this video have proper tanking skills.

and, Even without pilot, Freighter have more than 150K EHP.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-03-18 09:36:54 UTC
Post the damage logs.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2013-03-18 09:55:25 UTC
Looks like CCP should finally let dreads back to hisec. Restricting them to 1.0 and 0.9 would be fine.

.
Oscilo
Rotten Kimchi Squadron
#10 - 2013-03-18 11:25:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Oscilo
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#11 - 2013-03-18 14:04:48 UTC
There was a bug some time ago, publicised by Wave of Mutilation 2 IIRC, where hits on structure would all be wrecking (which I realise wouldn't apply to missiles).

I can't recall the analysis or the solution for that problem but I have a suspition it was to do with the way resistances work.


As I understand it resistances are front-end only, the game itself uses something which has been described as "Resonances".
A 0% resistance is actually a 100% Resonance, (apply a 50% hardener to that and you reach 50% resonance, another takes it to 25% resonance (not including stacking)).
The reason this is important is that the game has the capacity to handle resonances of 200% (IIRC) without blinking - meaning that the target suffers 200% the "usual" damage.

If, somehow, the hull resonances have been set (presumably accidentally) to 200%, then the 110k hull HP of a freighter would only be equivalent to 55k...
I’m unable to check the links at work, but if resonances were to blame then the dreadnaught pilot will have seen a larger than expected damage message – unless other bugs changed the reporting...
Heinrich Hoss
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-03-18 16:54:32 UTC
Indeed, the damage in the log is lower than the total hp of either of these freighters even if they had 0% resists. Weird.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#13 - 2013-03-18 17:20:01 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
There was a bug some time ago, publicised by Wave of Mutilation 2 IIRC, where hits on structure would all be wrecking (which I realise wouldn't apply to missiles).

I can't recall the analysis or the solution for that problem but I have a suspition it was to do with the way resistances work.


As I understand it resistances are front-end only, the game itself uses something which has been described as "Resonances".
A 0% resistance is actually a 100% Resonance, (apply a 50% hardener to that and you reach 50% resonance, another takes it to 25% resonance (not including stacking)).
The reason this is important is that the game has the capacity to handle resonances of 200% (IIRC) without blinking - meaning that the target suffers 200% the "usual" damage.

If, somehow, the hull resonances have been set (presumably accidentally) to 200%, then the 110k hull HP of a freighter would only be equivalent to 55k...
I’m unable to check the links at work, but if resonances were to blame then the dreadnaught pilot will have seen a larger than expected damage message – unless other bugs changed the reporting...

Resonance, huh? Interesting.

You know this makes a lot of sense, gives you much simpler equations for damage calculation, resistance stacking diminishing returns, and displayed resistances on your fitting window...
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#14 - 2013-03-18 17:23:07 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Resonance, huh? Interesting.

You know this makes a lot of sense, gives you much simpler equations for damage calculation, resistance stacking diminishing returns, and displayed resistances on your fitting window...

That's what I thought when I first heard it - I've been explaining hardeners to new players in that way ever since.
Oscilo
Rotten Kimchi Squadron
#15 - 2013-03-19 00:27:26 UTC
Resistances are front-end only and the game itself uses 'Resonance'?

That's something I haven't heard before. but It makes sense. You've got a point.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#16 - 2013-03-19 09:52:22 UTC
The logs show normal damage, less than EVE ehp of destroyed ships, so the resonance bug seem excluded.