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BREAKING NEWS: Ground Fighting Erupts on Caldari Prime

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Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#141 - 2013-03-18 16:29:00 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
to actually ask why it is that I believe these things.

Did Uncle Kuvakei touch you in your special place as a child?


I believe it was Auntie Urazmie who touched him - at a party thrown by, well: you, my dear.

That's quite a touch. I can spin a bouncy were-bunny up quite high with a few good pokes to the prostate, but this... defies description. Wow.

Wow!
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#142 - 2013-03-18 16:29:08 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
The Incursions are rooted, at least in part, due to our compassionate impulses, Ms. Unarmored.


Very funny way of showing it, sort of like one of those abusive relationships you see on daytime views eh?


Arguement: The CONCORD signatories turned over a large portion of their power and decision making ability to an agency which then propagated a technology that allows people like Andreus (and worse than Andreus) to pilot spaceships armed to the brim with weaponry, and instituted no control over how they do this. They have recently authorized these pilots to shoot at, exclusively, temperate planets.

The empires and nations of the CONCORD covenant have thusly clearly demonstrated that they are incapable of effective self rulership. From our point of view, it is an act of ultimate mercy to remove these ill managed institutions in favor of one which manages itself effectively.

In addition, we are involved in several charitable initiatives aimed at defeating death itself. The whole thing. Not just curing a single disease, or stopping a particular massacre, but making each and every single human being immortal, free from the heretofore inescapable death sentence of unimproved biology.

So, yes, compassion underpins what we do. You may not agree with the results, but it would be incorrect to claim that it isn't there.



Alright, CONCORD is also set up to do some good too so first off lets not compare all the bad of one side with all the good of another. The Empires think us DUST projects are crazy, not stupid.

Second, those charitable initiatives also help your Nation as well either in the fact of defeating death or at least looking like you are helping while forcing others to join against their will. No matter how much good you do, or think you are doing it is kind of hard to get past that little fact.

Second, Yes CONCORD can be full of crap but the underlying principle is needed because those small little orbital strikes would be a lot bigger without them. I've seen those strikes; they just punch a hole through a few buildings. It really isn't that serious.


No, you missed my point.

Those small little orbital strikes would not be taking place, if CONCORD were not in place, because there would be no such thing as a "free capsuleer" in order to launch them. Ideally, there would not be capsuleers at all.

The harm that CONCORD has inflicted is not balanced by the few attempts at mitigating the damage. We therefore consider it a moral imperative to remove CONCORD and replace it with a structure that will actually take the steps necessary to make sure that no damage is inflicted in the first place. It is unfortunate that violence is necessary to achieve this, but the past actions of the CONCORD signatories have proven to us, as a Nation, that there is no other way to achieve this end.

We regret the need for violence, and work to minimize the damage we cause to individuals by taking the time, where ever possible, to rescue any and all survivors. It is very rare that the crew of a ship is at fault for the excesses of their immortal captains, and unfortunately they are the only real victims in all of this mess.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2013-03-18 16:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Quinzel Nikulainen wrote:
It's a pool of six hundred million if you read.

You weren't worth any more, so yes, it's chump change.

Getting killed is an occupational hazard, but nonetheless, let me illustrate something for you. A bounty that no-one knows about does not provide an incentive to kill someone above and beyond what incentives they already have. If you don't post the bounty through the CONCORD-mandated bounty system, only people who read this thread will know about it. Since this excludes the vast majority of people I see in space on a daily basis, all this bounty has actually done is let me know that you're very upset with me, and willing to waste six hundred million ISK (which is chump change for me, but given the length of your career, likely not for you).

So clearly I should just keep doing whatever it is that I'm doing but harder. You are welcome, of course, to come and register your disagreement with me in person.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#144 - 2013-03-18 16:34:24 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
The Incursions are rooted, at least in part, due to our compassionate impulses, Ms. Unarmored.


Very funny way of showing it, sort of like one of those abusive relationships you see on daytime views eh?


Arguement: The CONCORD signatories turned over a large portion of their power and decision making ability to an agency which then propagated a technology that allows people like Andreus (and worse than Andreus) to pilot spaceships armed to the brim with weaponry, and instituted no control over how they do this. They have recently authorized these pilots to shoot at, exclusively, temperate planets.

The empires and nations of the CONCORD covenant have thusly clearly demonstrated that they are incapable of effective self rulership. From our point of view, it is an act of ultimate mercy to remove these ill managed institutions in favor of one which manages itself effectively.

In addition, we are involved in several charitable initiatives aimed at defeating death itself. The whole thing. Not just curing a single disease, or stopping a particular massacre, but making each and every single human being immortal, free from the heretofore inescapable death sentence of unimproved biology.

So, yes, compassion underpins what we do. You may not agree with the results, but it would be incorrect to claim that it isn't there.



Alright, CONCORD is also set up to do some good too so first off lets not compare all the bad of one side with all the good of another. The Empires think us DUST projects are crazy, not stupid.

Second, those charitable initiatives also help your Nation as well either in the fact of defeating death or at least looking like you are helping while forcing others to join against their will. No matter how much good you do, or think you are doing it is kind of hard to get past that little fact.

Second, Yes CONCORD can be full of crap but the underlying principle is needed because those small little orbital strikes would be a lot bigger without them. I've seen those strikes; they just punch a hole through a few buildings. It really isn't that serious.


No, you missed my point.

Those small little orbital strikes would not be taking place, if CONCORD were not in place, because there would be no such thing as a "free capsuleer" in order to launch them. Ideally, there would not be capsuleers at all.

The harm that CONCORD has inflicted is not balanced by the few attempts at mitigating the damage. We therefore consider it a moral imperative to remove CONCORD and replace it with a structure that will actually take the steps necessary to make sure that no damage is inflicted in the first place. It is unfortunate that violence is necessary to achieve this, but the past actions of the CONCORD signatories have proven to us, as a Nation, that there is no other way to achieve this end.

We regret the need for violence, and work to minimize the damage we cause to individuals by taking the time, where ever possible, to rescue any and all survivors. It is very rare that the crew of a ship is at fault for the excesses of their immortal captains, and unfortunately they are the only real victims in all of this mess.



If it wasn't done by a capusleer there are plenty of other people that can fly a ship into war. Unfortunatly people will fight as long as there is something to gain, one can only minimalize the chances of it happening or the conflict. I am sure there is even in-fighting within your network and the greater whole over how to best serve Sansha when he just wants to be left alone. I'm sure all those people in his head would get quite annoying after awhile.
Kares Shahzu
Doomheim
#145 - 2013-03-18 16:39:34 UTC
It is quite clear that further discourse with Mister Ixiris will result in further petulance and rabid quips rather than anything of sustenance. Might I suggest that everyone leave him to his flailing and continue along civil discourse?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#146 - 2013-03-18 16:41:12 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

If it wasn't done by a capusleer there are plenty of other people that can fly a ship into war. Unfortunatly people will fight as long as there is something to gain, one can only minimalize the chances of it happening or the conflict. I am sure there is even in-fighting within your network and the greater whole over how to best serve Sansha when he just wants to be left alone. I'm sure all those people in his head would get quite annoying after awhile.


They are not capsuleers. They do not enjoy our particular advantage when it comes to causing death and destruction. They issue commands by voicing them, do not calibrate their sensors automatically, do not fire with a thought, cannot react to changing situations as well, and above all things must operate as a group entity, which prevents the random vagaries of madness to which capsuleers are prone.

On a non-capsuleer ship, if the crew refuses to follow an order, the action does not take place. On a capsuleer ship, if the crew refuses to follow an order, the action still happens, just a tad slower, and then the crew may be flushed into space as a punishment, because their captain was slightly annoyed with them.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2013-03-18 16:42:21 UTC
Kares Shahzu wrote:
It is quite clear that further discourse with Mister Ixiris will result in further petulance and rabid quips rather than anything of sustenance. Might I suggest that everyone leave him to his flailing and continue along civil discourse?

Ah, but see, as Ms. Nukiwhatever's actions clearly show: love me or hate me, it's pretty hard to just ignore me.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#148 - 2013-03-18 16:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberious Thessalonia
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Kares Shahzu wrote:
It is quite clear that further discourse with Mister Ixiris will result in further petulance and rabid quips rather than anything of sustenance. Might I suggest that everyone leave him to his flailing and continue along civil discourse?

Ah, but see, as Ms. Nukiwhatever's actions clearly show: love me or hate me, it's pretty hard to just ignore me.


This is a flawed premise for going through life for someone with responsibilities, Mr. Ixiris.

It is also a flawed expression of worth. It is very hard to ignore a tumor, as well.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#149 - 2013-03-18 16:44:37 UTC
Quinzel Nikulainen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Only five hundred million? Chump change, Quinzel. If you feel so strongly, in fact, why don't you come out here and fight me yourself, you bitter shrew?


It's a pool of six hundred million if you read.

You weren't worth any more, so yes, it's chump change.

Silas Vitalia wrote:

My own experiments with the CONCORD bounty system have proven it's uselessness.



Hence why I avoid it.



Although I find it distasteful the man has you there. You want him, go get him.

Being podded several times and embarrassed by a rival publicly is generally the shortest route to change capsuleer opinions and actions.



Sabik now, Sabik forever
Solarienne
Hrimdraugar
#150 - 2013-03-18 16:45:01 UTC
Kares Shahzu wrote:
It is quite clear that further discourse with Mister Ixiris will result in further petulance and rabid quips rather than anything of sustenance. Might I suggest that everyone leave him to his flailing and continue along civil discourse?


Kill joy.

As Andreus has pointed out - he most certainly exists, and if he so chooses to throw himself in to the path of the grav-rail freight train of public opinion, I'm not shedding a valuable cargo to stop the results. I probably wouldn't stop if it were empty, truth be told.

PY-RE Combat Pilot
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#151 - 2013-03-18 16:45:18 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Scherezad, he is trying to indicate one of two things. Either he believes that you are "slow" or "dim-witted" (Cows are, traditionally, not particularly intelligent animals), or that you get through life on the power of your breasts.

Either way, he has proven that he is not capable of dealing with you in good faith.


Oh, I see, thank you. I won't argue the first point - I can be very slow-witted. I don't think I've ever used my physical attributes to get anything, though. I thought that the Gallente approved of the female form?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2013-03-18 16:45:40 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Although I find it distasteful the man has you there. You want him, go get him.

Being podded several times and embarrassed by a rival publicly is generally the shortest route to change capsuleer opinions and actions.

I don't see that as a particular danger from Ms. Nukihowdoyouevenpronouncethat.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#153 - 2013-03-18 16:47:14 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

If it wasn't done by a capusleer there are plenty of other people that can fly a ship into war. Unfortunatly people will fight as long as there is something to gain, one can only minimalize the chances of it happening or the conflict. I am sure there is even in-fighting within your network and the greater whole over how to best serve Sansha when he just wants to be left alone. I'm sure all those people in his head would get quite annoying after awhile.


They are not capsuleers. They do not enjoy our particular advantage when it comes to causing death and destruction. They issue commands by voicing them, do not calibrate their sensors automatically, do not fire with a thought, cannot react to changing situations as well, and above all things must operate as a group entity, which prevents the random vagaries of madness to which capsuleers are prone.

On a non-capsuleer ship, if the crew refuses to follow an order, the action does not take place. On a capsuleer ship, if the crew refuses to follow an order, the action still happens, just a tad slower, and then the crew may be flushed into space as a punishment, because their captain was slightly annoyed with them.


And this is also why people should know what they are getting into rather than going on a capsuleer's ship all willy-nilly; its a very scientific term I'm sure you understand. Still, you do have a point on the random madness which can happen to capsuleers but I still think a majority of them are good and decent; just a bit...short in conversation and not the brightest lightbulb in the house.

Instead of killing every capsuleer by using capsuleer ships yourselves, would it be better to to target those with un-usual aggressive ticks instead of a blanket approach? Its usually better to cut the tumor out or attack it directly than to punish the whole body.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#154 - 2013-03-18 16:50:34 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Scherezad, he is trying to indicate one of two things. Either he believes that you are "slow" or "dim-witted" (Cows are, traditionally, not particularly intelligent animals), or that you get through life on the power of your breasts.

Either way, he has proven that he is not capable of dealing with you in good faith.


Oh, I see, thank you. I won't argue the first point - I can be very slow-witted. I don't think I've ever used my physical attributes to get anything, though. I thought that the Gallente approved of the female form?


Well you may sometimes be slow, I do not think you have ever been dull.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#155 - 2013-03-18 16:51:37 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Scherezad, he is trying to indicate one of two things. Either he believes that you are "slow" or "dim-witted" (Cows are, traditionally, not particularly intelligent animals), or that you get through life on the power of your breasts.

Either way, he has proven that he is not capable of dealing with you in good faith.


Oh, I see, thank you. I won't argue the first point - I can be very slow-witted. I don't think I've ever used my physical attributes to get anything, though. I thought that the Gallente approved of the female form?


The Gallente approve of a great deal, my dear. I look forward to nurturing the poor things back to health, soon, when the more substantive issues raised herein come to a head.

At least some of the poor things.

I do hope that we are deep enough, here. Perhaps sixty-three floors down isn't quite enough, and the seventy-second had a particularly nice seepage lake!
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#156 - 2013-03-18 16:53:38 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

If it wasn't done by a capusleer there are plenty of other people that can fly a ship into war. Unfortunatly people will fight as long as there is something to gain, one can only minimalize the chances of it happening or the conflict. I am sure there is even in-fighting within your network and the greater whole over how to best serve Sansha when he just wants to be left alone. I'm sure all those people in his head would get quite annoying after awhile.


They are not capsuleers. They do not enjoy our particular advantage when it comes to causing death and destruction. They issue commands by voicing them, do not calibrate their sensors automatically, do not fire with a thought, cannot react to changing situations as well, and above all things must operate as a group entity, which prevents the random vagaries of madness to which capsuleers are prone.

On a non-capsuleer ship, if the crew refuses to follow an order, the action does not take place. On a capsuleer ship, if the crew refuses to follow an order, the action still happens, just a tad slower, and then the crew may be flushed into space as a punishment, because their captain was slightly annoyed with them.


And this is also why people should know what they are getting into rather than going on a capsuleer's ship all willy-nilly; its a very scientific term I'm sure you understand. Still, you do have a point on the random madness which can happen to capsuleers but I still think a majority of them are good and decent; just a bit...short in conversation and not the brightest lightbulb in the house.

Instead of killing every capsuleer by using capsuleer ships yourselves, would it be better to to target those with un-usual aggressive ticks instead of a blanket approach? Its usually better to cut the tumor out or attack it directly than to punish the whole body.


See, the point we disagree on is that we, in all the places we have lived throughout the cluster, have noticed that the vast majority of capsuleers fit into the "completely batshit insane" camp.

The ones who we find who are not we cherish and nurture, if they are independent. If they belong to a supporter of the CONCORD signatories, we still shoot at them, but we do it with respect.

Otherwise, it is a little like putting down a mad animal, except we can't actually get rid of the mad animal. We have to rely upon pavlovian conditioning instead.
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#157 - 2013-03-18 16:56:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinzel Nikulainen
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Getting killed is an occupational hazard....


All of these points of confusion have been answered in the notice's preliminary post and the post you quoted.

Yes, it is chump change. I was posting much larger bounties months earlier in my career. And I'm guessing you enrolled in the Militia with what, about 10B in savings and thus assume that most pilots who enrolled within the last year are somehow not able to levy such 'massive' amounts of economic power?

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2013-03-18 16:59:22 UTC
Quinzel Nikulainen wrote:
All of these points of confusion have been answered in the notice's preliminary post and the post you quoted.

Yes, it is chump change. I was posting much larger bounties months earlier in my career. And I'm guessing you enrolled in the Militia with what, about 10B in savings and thus assume that most pilots who enrolled within the last year are somehow not able to levy such 'massive' amounts of economic power?

I know for a fact that the money you've set aside because you're throwing a teary over my behaviour was not a small investment. Clearly I matter to you.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#159 - 2013-03-18 17:03:10 UTC
My, my. This whole thread is rather telling of the state of things. I try to raise awareness on certain issues and it comes to...this?

The best argument I have heard for putting Capsuleers out of their misery has not come to me from the Foundations, but from my observations of the madness I see around me.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#160 - 2013-03-18 17:03:14 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

If it wasn't done by a capusleer there are plenty of other people that can fly a ship into war. Unfortunatly people will fight as long as there is something to gain, one can only minimalize the chances of it happening or the conflict. I am sure there is even in-fighting within your network and the greater whole over how to best serve Sansha when he just wants to be left alone. I'm sure all those people in his head would get quite annoying after awhile.


They are not capsuleers. They do not enjoy our particular advantage when it comes to causing death and destruction. They issue commands by voicing them, do not calibrate their sensors automatically, do not fire with a thought, cannot react to changing situations as well, and above all things must operate as a group entity, which prevents the random vagaries of madness to which capsuleers are prone.

On a non-capsuleer ship, if the crew refuses to follow an order, the action does not take place. On a capsuleer ship, if the crew refuses to follow an order, the action still happens, just a tad slower, and then the crew may be flushed into space as a punishment, because their captain was slightly annoyed with them.


And this is also why people should know what they are getting into rather than going on a capsuleer's ship all willy-nilly; its a very scientific term I'm sure you understand. Still, you do have a point on the random madness which can happen to capsuleers but I still think a majority of them are good and decent; just a bit...short in conversation and not the brightest lightbulb in the house.

Instead of killing every capsuleer by using capsuleer ships yourselves, would it be better to to target those with un-usual aggressive ticks instead of a blanket approach? Its usually better to cut the tumor out or attack it directly than to punish the whole body.


See, the point we disagree on is that we, in all the places we have lived throughout the cluster, have noticed that the vast majority of capsuleers fit into the "completely batshit insane" camp.

The ones who we find who are not we cherish and nurture, if they are independent. If they belong to a supporter of the CONCORD signatories, we still shoot at them, but we do it with respect.

Otherwise, it is a little like putting down a mad animal, except we can't actually get rid of the mad animal. We have to rely upon pavlovian conditioning instead.



Huh, interesting. I don't believe it with the incursions and such happening; but an interesting point of view on 'respect.' Interesting doesn't mean I put much stock in it however.