These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Updates to Team Security and the ongoing war on botting

First post
Author
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2013-03-18 15:27:21 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Gempei wrote:
what exactly is "client modification"?



thats a pretty important question, there is a bunch of tools out in the wild that can access some kind of cache. does that count as a client modification ?

some kind of posting to clear that up would be greatly appreciated



Our policy is that we do not make any guarantees about any tools being allowed and safe to use. We can't feasibly do that.

But client modification right now are anything that injects/touches the running EVE process. That is, reads or writes memory into it, injects and executes code. Basically anything that modifies the client to change the client or extract information that's not normally accessible. That includes bots of course.

Just a random dude in Team Security.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#22 - 2013-03-18 15:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Always good to see a dev blog from Team Security, especially one that involves stomping on bots.

I have a quick question on a recent post by CCP Sreegs, who said that cache scraping is against the EULA as far as he is concerned, bearing in mind that many legitimate out of game tools (Evemon for example) scrape the local cache for market information by default, and that there are IGB tools that populate the cache by using CCP developed code to automagically scan the market, is his stance an official stance or merely his own interpretation of the EULA?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Gempei
Marvinovi pratele
#23 - 2013-03-18 15:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Gempei
Gilbaron wrote:
thats a pretty important question, there is a bunch of tools out....

Yes, this! When I get some corrupt files in client, when i use teamspeak overlay plugin or when eve programs using cache (evemon, evehq) making something with cache - get i perma ban for this? We need more specific clarification from devs Roll

too slow, thanks for ccp stillman answer Cool
CCP Peligro
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-03-18 15:36:43 UTC
spookydonut wrote:
Firstly, who the hell is CCP Peligro?



Hi! That would be me. I've been at CCP since April 2006, but my work is done largely behind the scenes, so you might not have heard of me.

My main responsibilities within Team Security is to analyze and act on data.

CCP Peligro - Team Security

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#25 - 2013-03-18 15:40:10 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:
spookydonut wrote:
Firstly, who the hell is CCP Peligro?



Hi! That would be me. I've been at CCP since April 2006, but my work is done largely behind the scenes, so you might not have heard of me.

My main responsibilities within Team Security is to analyze and act on data.



In other words he's the brains of the outfit.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#26 - 2013-03-18 15:40:12 UTC
Keep up the anti bot war till the bots are standing still man! Blink

Good job Team security.

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......

CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2013-03-18 15:42:47 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:
spookydonut wrote:
Firstly, who the hell is CCP Peligro?



Hi! That would be me. I've been at CCP since April 2006, but my work is done largely behind the scenes, so you might not have heard of me.

My main responsibilities within Team Security is to analyze and act on data.



In other words he's the brains of the outfit.

And he does all the heavy lifting too. He is, after all, The Enforcer Of The Law™Cool

Just a random dude in Team Security.

Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#28 - 2013-03-18 15:47:16 UTC
Now, about those pesky and obvious bots in Jita...

...

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-03-18 15:48:49 UTC
So here's a concern I have. In the past, there have been false positives that pop up - people wrongfully banned because (to use the example from one instance involving a fellow pilot) they legitimately bought a character through the forums which had been involved in RMT, and so were caught up in the sweep. Reversing these bans has been an agonizing process, in no small part due to their communications more or less being ignored by your team.

I understand that many botters and RMTers will protest their innocence as a matter of course which can make "ignore everything" an appealing option, but in the case I referred to above, the person was on the verge of quitting before loud and public action by his CEO on his behalf finally prompted a response. I have to imagine there may be other cases where wrongfully banned people had no one looking out for them and simply quit instead.

My question to you then is, what do you plan to do about this?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Ta'liq Browson
Magnetar Dynamics
#30 - 2013-03-18 15:52:25 UTC
I apologize for being ignorant - but what is RMT? I know if I don't know what it is then I am probably not doing it, but I like to ask anyways to be sure.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#31 - 2013-03-18 15:53:26 UTC
mynnna wrote:
So here's a concern I have. In the past, there have been false positives that pop up - people wrongfully banned because (to use the example from one instance involving a fellow pilot) they legitimately bought a character through the forums which had been involved in RMT, and so were caught up in the sweep. Reversing these bans has been an agonizing process, in no small part due to their communications more or less being ignored by your team.

I understand that many botters and RMTers will protest their innocence as a matter of course which can make "ignore everything" an appealing option, but in the case I referred to above, the person was on the verge of quitting before loud and public action by his CEO on his behalf finally prompted a response. I have to imagine there may be other cases where wrongfully banned people had no one looking out for them and simply quit instead.

My question to you then is, what do you plan to do about this?


That is a legit concern.

However, I can see how complicated it can be if you take into account the possibility that the person petitioning the ban may be lying through their teeth (if they have any) and pretending to be an innocent player.

Adapt or Die

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-03-18 15:54:00 UTC
Ta'liq Browson wrote:
I apologize for being ignorant - but what is RMT? I know if I don't know what it is then I am probably not doing it, but I like to ask anyways to be sure.

Real Money Transactions - that is, selling isk for real money (or buying it as the case may be.)

To answer the question that results from this - yes, buying PLEX and selling them ingame is RMT. However, it's CCP sanctioned RMT. Blink

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#33 - 2013-03-18 15:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
A player who wants to RMT goes to a friend who does not play eve and says:

"Could you start a character in Eve, buy a pile of ISK via RMT, then sell me the character?"

How would CCP stop that from happening, other than swinging the ban hammer even after the character has been sold?

Edit: Ill answer my own question: Ban the person who did the RMT and remove the ISK. That way the receiver of the character gets zero benefit from the transaction.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#34 - 2013-03-18 15:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
Ta'liq Browson wrote:
I apologize for being ignorant - but what is RMT? I know if I don't know what it is then I am probably not doing it, but I like to ask anyways to be sure.


Real-Money Trading

An illegal activity (to CCP at least) in which a player sells in-game currency for real-world cash.

Adapt or Die

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#35 - 2013-03-18 15:56:02 UTC
Ta'liq Browson wrote:
I apologize for being ignorant - but what is RMT? I know if I don't know what it is then I am probably not doing it, but I like to ask anyways to be sure.


Real Money Trading, basically buying or selling ISK for real currency outside of the official mechanisms such as PLEX or Game Time Codes, it also covers the buying or selling of ingame assets for real currency.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-03-18 15:56:20 UTC
Henry Haphorn wrote:


That is a legit concern.

However, I can see how complicated it can be if you take into account the possibility that the person petitioning the ban may be lying through their teeth (if they have any) and pretending to be an innocent player.


That isn't a reason to just consign the genuinely innocent to their fate.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#37 - 2013-03-18 16:01:27 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
A player who wants to RMT goes to a friend who does not play eve and says:

"Could you start a character in Eve, buy a pile of ISK via RMT, then sell me the character?"

How would CCP stop that from happening, other than swinging the ban hammer even after the character has been sold?

For one, this would violate the character transfer rules. A character can't have a positive ISK balance or assets prior to account transfer. If you want to buy a pile of ISK via RMT outside of PLEX, at a certain point the transaction is going to be big enough that CCP will see it and check it out. Then you and your supplier both get banned. They'll track down other accounts you own or have worked with and could take those down too. I mean... it's CCPs game. They can go after ISK and leave you with a neg balance.

With regards to CCP Sreegs, I wonder why he left?

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#38 - 2013-03-18 16:05:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Gogela wrote:

With regards to CCP Sreegs, I wonder why he left?


Going to Sony I believe, probably got made an offer he couldn't refuse salary wise.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-03-18 16:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
As you said that any Idea would be apreciated, I would like you to go to this tread and take a good read.

UNIFIED ACCOUNT THEORY

This could possibly bring the war against bots and RMT to annother level.

The main Idea on this tread is to ask for an analysis on this pssibility, that could increase profit, make players life easier, allow better interaction between CCP and the player(not only the account) and prevent botting by increasing the consequences. ( hitting not with a ban hamer, but with an Viking Ban Axe cutting trough all chars that belong to the Eula breaker.)

And please, give this tread a like or a comment just to make me aware that it was not for nothing.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#40 - 2013-03-18 16:19:23 UTC
o7 Sreegs. Goonswarm will be glad to have their Darius JOHNSON back.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]