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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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Haulie Berry
#981 - 2013-03-14 15:55:19 UTC
Lost True wrote:

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=400&h=220&o=f&c=1&y=r&b=ffffff&n=666666&r=2y&u=eveonline.com&
(site, forums)


Your forgot to label your chart.

Allow me to help. That should be captioned with the following:

Estimated percentage of global internet users who visit eveonline.com.

It's a chart that tells us they have the internet in Africa, now.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#982 - 2013-03-15 09:06:37 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Lost True wrote:

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=400&h=220&o=f&c=1&y=r&b=ffffff&n=666666&r=2y&u=eveonline.com&
(site, forums)


Your forgot to label your chart.

Allow me to help. That should be captioned with the following:

Estimated percentage of global internet users who visit eveonline.com.

It's a chart that tells us they have the internet in Africa, now.


Yet another uninformed post by you.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/top20.htm
Deriah Book
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#983 - 2013-03-15 17:25:56 UTC
I just want to make sure I've got this right:

The skill "Marauders" will stay in the game with the same multiracial functionality that it has now?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#984 - 2013-03-15 19:37:12 UTC
Deriah Book wrote:
I just want to make sure I've got this right:

The skill "Marauders" will stay in the game with the same multiracial functionality that it has now?

All tech 2 ship skills remain multiracial as they are now, including marauders.
Deriah Book
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#985 - 2013-03-15 22:34:43 UTC
Sweet. Thank you.
Adeleine
Sateenvarjo
#986 - 2013-03-17 12:58:27 UTC
I have;

Amarr Frigate 5, Caldari Frigate 5, Galente Frigate 3, Minmatar Frigate 3
Destroyers 2

So I can fly all Tech 1 Destroyers. And after the change I will have;

Amarr Frigate 5, Caldari Frigate 5, Galente Frigate 3, Minmatar Frigate 3
Amarr Destroyers 2, Caldari Destroyers 2, Galente Destroyers 2, Minmatar Destroyers 2

Sounds correct? And if I read destroyers up to 3. I will have;

Amarr Frigate 5, Caldari Frigate 5, Galente Frigate 3, Minmatar Frigate 3
Amarr Destroyers 3, Caldari Destroyers 3, Galente Destroyers 3, Minmatar Destroyers 3

Correct?

Now I also have;

Amarr Cruiser 4, Caldari Cruiser 5
Battlecruiser 5

So I will get;

Amarr Cruiser 4, Caldari Cruiser 5
Amarr Battlecruiser 5, Caldari Battlecruiser 5

But if I read up Galente Cruisers to 3 I get;

Amarr Cruiser 4, Caldari Cruiser 5, Galente Cruiser 3
Amarr Battlecruiser 5, Caldari Battlecruiser 5, Galente Battlecruiser 5

Correct?

Not that I need those but free stuff is free stuff. In lifes piorities it comes right after getting it on with hot lesbian couple.


Now the second thing gets me really worried; The leadership 5 skills to fly Command Ship.

I do have Leadership 5 and the rest are 3. But I am base charisma 3 charecter. If I reset that I lose on the int side so I wont. Reading leadership skills do take an awful lot of time from me. And this is even more painfull since I dont really want to command any one but instead I want to fly Battlecruiser hull size assault ship. But there aint one, exept the command ships.

So Now I can fly one command ship, caldari Nighthawk. If I read up Amarr cruisers V, that opens Absolution too.

So will I get free boost to leadership skills to 5 so I can still fly Nighthawk or will I have to read em up after patch?


And no I didnt read 50 pages of "can i fly my tech 2 ship" to find the answer. What can I say?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#987 - 2013-03-17 13:19:03 UTC
Try just reading the devblog.

No you won't get free leadership skills. Yes you will still be able to fly commandships.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#988 - 2013-03-17 16:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
Adeleine, I'd recommend just training into command ships now, because the boosting skills they're adding after the patch hurt more than the leadership skills now. Much more.

Edit: You don't need the boosting skills or leadership skills to undock any command ship, they're requirements to train the command ship skill. After the patch, if you have the racial BC skills all to V, and you have command ship skill injected and trained to any level, you can sit in and undock any of the 8 command ships.
ohlalala
24k pure nerdness
#989 - 2013-03-17 19:56:48 UTC
Just have a short question:
I saw the motto of “if you could fly it before, you can fly it now” in your dev blog.
I understand of the racial BC and destroyer skill change.
But for other ships ,like freighter and rorq.
If I can fly now, and after the expansion, I "should" be able to fly it.
But the skills are changes for these ships.
say If I can just fly the rorq (means just a sitting pilot, and can't use the industrial core)
But after the expansion, since the skills are changed, Do I get those skills for free? (ie the skills need for industrial core)
same for command ships, say if I can fly them now and after the expansion, will I get all the command skill for free?
Thanks for you answer :)
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#990 - 2013-03-17 22:14:32 UTC
ohlalala wrote:
Just have a short question:
I saw the motto of “if you could fly it before, you can fly it now” in your dev blog.
I understand of the racial BC and destroyer skill change.
But for other ships ,like freighter and rorq.
If I can fly now, and after the expansion, I "should" be able to fly it.
But the skills are changes for these ships.
say If I can just fly the rorq (means just a sitting pilot, and can't use the industrial core)
But after the expansion, since the skills are changed, Do I get those skills for free? (ie the skills need for industrial core)
same for command ships, say if I can fly them now and after the expansion, will I get all the command skill for free?
Thanks for you answer :)


Ok srsly now. Right above your post there is an answer to a similar case.

You can expect a tiny bit of understanding if you're too lazy to read 50 pages and too stupid to just click through the dev replies.
But reading the last few posts before you post a question is hardly asking for too much.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#991 - 2013-03-17 23:09:40 UTC
ohlalala wrote:
Just have a short question:
I saw the motto of “if you could fly it before, you can fly it now” in your dev blog.
I understand of the racial BC and destroyer skill change.
But for other ships ,like freighter and rorq.
If I can fly now, and after the expansion, I "should" be able to fly it.
But the skills are changes for these ships.
say If I can just fly the rorq (means just a sitting pilot, and can't use the industrial core)
But after the expansion, since the skills are changed, Do I get those skills for free? (ie the skills need for industrial core)
same for command ships, say if I can fly them now and after the expansion, will I get all the command skill for free?
Thanks for you answer :)



No. You get no free skills.

Because the requirements for a skill, aren't requirements for the ship.

If you have the skill for the ship, you can fly it, regardless of if you have the new requirements for the skill.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#992 - 2013-03-18 05:54:58 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
But I really want to see correctly streamlined skilltrees. So please also change that for the Jumpfreighters.

All capital ships have a mess instead of "streamlined" tree. Titans dont have Dreads as prerequisite, Supercarriers share the same skill with Carriers. All of them are based on level 3 (only!) of Battleships, making cross-training for capitals way too easy - while there were no such goal. And yes, IV level instead of V for Jump Freighters.

Furthermore, never heard community complained about skill tree. Instead, heard a lot about POS being crap, and Sov wars being boring. So I consider this change as a fail, all of it - from initial idea to final implementation.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#993 - 2013-03-18 09:32:04 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

Furthermore, never heard community complained about skill tree. Instead, heard a lot about POS being crap, and Sov wars being boring. So I consider this change as a fail, all of it - from initial idea to final implementation.


I suppose at some point someone was sick about the crappy thing the skill tree evolved to and decided to do something about it.
It's called 'professional pride'. Might be a new concept to some.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#994 - 2013-03-18 10:14:33 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
I suppose at some point someone was sick about the crappy thing the skill tree evolved to and decided to do something about it.
It's called 'professional pride'. Might be a new concept to some.

The same someone being fine with POS and Sov makes it look like a whim rather.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#995 - 2013-03-18 10:22:59 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
I suppose at some point someone was sick about the crappy thing the skill tree evolved to and decided to do something about it.
It's called 'professional pride'. Might be a new concept to some.

The same someone being fine with POS and Sov makes it look like a whim rather.


Might be another someone. They're a small company but not THAT small.
Also the skill change strikes me as a thing that is harder to communicate than to actually fix.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#996 - 2013-03-18 11:19:17 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Might be another someone. They're a small company but not THAT small.
Also the skill change strikes me as a thing that is harder to communicate than to actually fix.

CCP Ytterbium takes part in both POS revamp and this venture.
But do you mean to say the skill tree is properly fixed now? And you refuse to agree that capital part of the tree is a nonsense?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#997 - 2013-03-18 20:01:40 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Might be another someone. They're a small company but not THAT small.
Also the skill change strikes me as a thing that is harder to communicate than to actually fix.

CCP Ytterbium takes part in both POS revamp and this venture.
But do you mean to say the skill tree is properly fixed now? And you refuse to agree that capital part of the tree is a nonsense?

The capital portion of the skill tree is probably unsalvageable. It's supposedly a T1 series of ships but requires a number of nested prerequisites to ensure basic functionality of the ships in their roles, which is a T2 ship attribute. T1 subcap ships don't have this and so long as it remains there will be no true "fixing" of the cap trees. since it's so special cased anyways why bother with it?
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#998 - 2013-03-19 06:26:57 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The capital portion of the skill tree is probably unsalvageable. It's supposedly a T1 series of ships but requires a number of nested prerequisites to ensure basic functionality of the ships in their roles, which is a T2 ship attribute. T1 subcap ships don't have this and so long as it remains there will be no true "fixing" of the cap trees. since it's so special cased anyways why bother with it?

I dont think it's so terribly "unsalvageable". And no, most capitals perform pretty good without their hidden nested prerequisites, except for Dreads, and Rorqual in some extent. Also, those could be easily "streamlined" if one wished so - just increase base damage on Dreads (while reducing sieged bonus) and allow ore compression without deploying, but at reduced rate.
As for the other caps:
1. Carriers - can perform extremely good without triage and even without fighters, their designed primary weapon system. Slowcats is a new drake (c).
2. Supercarriers - once you're skilled for their primiry weapon system, are good as they are.
3. Titans - while it's pretty dumb, but theoretically it could be usefull with only capital turrets onboard, without DD, bridges and whatnot.
4. Freighters. Well, nuff said.

But you know what?
I'd even agree if they said "oh capships are really hard to fix, so they remain as they are". But no, they change prerequisites from BS V to BS III, to make it look like streamlined. In my opinion, it's the worst solution of all.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#999 - 2013-03-19 08:56:46 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

But do you mean to say the skill tree is properly fixed now? And you refuse to agree that capital part of the tree is a nonsense?


I wouldn't have done it like that, but I can hardly say it's nonsense, since there are valid reasons to change the capital requirements as they did by defining a primary intended purpose and changing requirements accordingly.

Quote:

But no, they change prerequisites from BS V to BS III, to make it look like streamlined. In my opinion, it's the worst solution of all.


Well, that change is certainly streamlined as it's in accordance with the other requirements in the linear part of the tree.
Personally i'd have preferred IV for consistency, but again it`s pretty much a matter of opinion.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1000 - 2013-03-19 09:49:10 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
But do you mean to say the skill tree is properly fixed now? And you refuse to agree that capital part of the tree is a nonsense?

I wouldn't have done it like that, but I can hardly say it's nonsense, since there are valid reasons to change the capital requirements as they did by defining a primary intended purpose and changing requirements accordingly.

Titan is one size above Dread, but does not have it as a prerequisite.
Supercarrier is even worse - it shares the same skill with Carrier, which is one size below.
It's like if Battleship and Battlecruiser had Cruiser as prerequisite; and Destroyer shared the skill with Frigate. If the purpose was to make skill tree easy to comprehend, then it was failed - because it still bogs my mind capitally.